So much advice her about hand holding an addict because it’s a mental illness makes me think posters on here have zero experience with an addict and how they can ruin a family.

I could have written OP’s post. My cousin, as long as I can remember, has been a liar, thief and addict. He will say anything, he’s a charmer, and then steal from you. He stole his mother’s pain pills while she lie dying in hospice. He showed up at my wedding and stole wedding presents. He broke into my parents house and stole my mother’s jewelry. He joined a cult. He got in trouble so many times with the police in our state he had his driver’s license suspended for 10years. He turned his mother’s house into a meth lab after she died. He is a piece of $hit.

There are some people who are so far gone, who are so wrapped up in their own addiction and narcissistic personalities you cannot help them, reason with them, save them. Advice to give OP’s brother ultimatums or conditions is useless. OP needs to save her sanity, her livelihood, and herself, especially if she has children of her own.

Op go to Al anon, get some strategies, use them. I cut off all contact with my cousin years ago, and finally my parents did too. I cannot have him randomly showing up at my house, stealing from me, putting me in harms way, with my kids living here.

Anonymous wrote:Al anon stat!! You set boundaries. Brother doesn't see you or your kids unless he's clean.
You don't take his calls unless it's for hep to get clean. You do not give your parents money that they give to him.

Thanks everyone, I've looked up a meeting and there is one in my area Monday night. What do you do in the situation here where he claims he's clean but he just doesn't have a job and is bleeding my parents dry. And I'm not sure that he's clean.

Follow the Al Anon advice OP as the first step. If you think of all the problems collectively it will be way too overwhelming. One step at a time... best of luck OP.

Al anon stat!! You set boundaries. Brother doesn't see you or your kids unless he's clean.
You don't take his calls unless it's for hep to get clean. You do not give your parents money that they give to him.

OP, listen to me. You need to set very firm boundaries with your parents. Boundary 1: I will not pay for the apartment you live in if you let my brother visit or live there. You are also asking for advice on a board full of people that likely don't understand addiction, so they are chiming in with answers like "I would help him" because they don't get it. This isn't a slam on them, I'm happy for them that they don't get it. I get it. Stop asking us, go to Al Anon or NarAnon. Don't worry about bringing your parents, YOU are the one that needs to go and learn to set boundaries with THEM.

It's already been said but Go to Al Anon. Today. Don't think about gettin your parents there or sister or brother in treatment blah blah. Go to Al Anon. Today.

Man this is hard. My brother is a recovering (as far as we
Know) 30 something drug addicti who has put so much strain on the family. He has lived with my parents, done rehab, etc all on my parents dime. All I can say is I feel for you. I find it best to stay out of it. There is nothing you can say or do to change your parents minds. If they take your brother into the apartment you will just have to find different childcare and tel your parents you can no longer pay rent. Whenever I get mad at my parents I think about what I would do if I was in their position and unfortunately it would be the same they are doing. That makes me a little less angry when I think of it like that.

you prioritize your children first, parents second, brother third (assuming husband is in the mix, you put him in the first group). You clearly tell your parents that in no uncertain terms, you no longer pay their rent if your brother moves in there. Period. And if he moves to the DC area and plans to mooch off of your parents, regardless of who's paying the rent, I think you must come up with a new childcare plan. Money aside, you know in your heart that you cannot allow your children near him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find a different childcare arrangement. Help your parents apply for low income housing and find other jobs. If your brother does move to the area, it's unreasonable to think you will be able to keep him away from your kids if your kids are in your parents care regularly.

Boundaries are key when dealing with this level of mental illness.

Your parents are incapable of setting them with your brother; honestly you have issues too since you were paying for their rent even before you knew all the money was gone (or you were taking their free childcare? Either way, holidays and family dinners)

You can't keep them from their son, so you must get your own childcare and have them find assisted housing. I would have then pursue bankruptcy as well; that will help them prioritize and maybe enforce their limitations on what they give your brother.

You do not want to the one paying rent (are you on the lease?) for the place where your brother lives; as a loose cannon you could be liable for damage etc.

Al-anon stat.

My parents are giving me free childcare -- I pay for them to live rent free while they watch my kids. I guess I didn't make that clear enough before -- they are being paid in kind with free rent, and I get the bonus of having my nice parents care for my kids. I can certainly hire an au pair or nanny to care for my children, but I can't afford to also pay for my parents' rent if I do that. I am not that wealthy. I realize that if my brother moves out here I wil lnot be able to stop him being around my parents, which means it would no longer be acceptable for my parents to provide childcare for my kids. I've told them that. I want to prevent him moving here at almost any cost, but I am not willing to pay off his debts unless he gets in a treatment program.

I got it, OP, and I think PPs did as well. The very sad and frustrating reality for you is that you will have to create boundaries with your parents. No other previous attempts to get your brother do something else than exactly what he wants to do has succeeded. If he's thinking about moving to the area--being homeless there's really nothing keeping him where he is--I think you need to prepare yourself with the assumption that he WILL move to the area.
When that happens, there will be no meaningful barrier between your children and him, because he will of course gravitate to your parents' apartment. This means the current financial arrangement you have for childcare will no longer work, and you will have to go to a new arrangement.
PPs have suggested you assist you help your parents find low income senior housing. This would be great because it would help take care of their housing, since you will now have to put funds into an au pair, and hopefully there will be restrictions on the housing that prevent the brother from moving in with them.
The actions that you need to take are incredibly hard and painful, but they are also really straightforward.
You brother has been making destructive decisions all his life, and only he will have the power to change it.
Your parents have also been making destructive decisions throughout his life through their enabling, and again, only they have the power to change it.
The ONLY think you have power over in this situation is the protection of your children. That is not only in your power, it is your absolutely primary responsibility. They do not have free agency in this situation, only the adults. You must protect them.
Al-Anon today.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is your parents' response if you say exactly this to them? Ie straight up voicing that you don't know what to do, because given his substance issues you are NOT okay with your brother being around your kids...and you just cannot afford to both pay for this apartment and a separate childcare provider?

They say that they're sure my brother could get a job if he moved out here and afford his own apartment. And by the way, wouldn't it be OK for my brother just to visit during the day and chat with family and the kids.

That's their response (we all know that he couldn't get an apartment with his credit, and that he has never held a job for longer than 3 months). I've told them that I love my brother and them, but that I can't have him around my children. And that if he is around my children, I will have to get an au pair or nanny to watch the children and that I wouldn't be able to afford paying their rent. They just don't acknowledge the reality and think everything will work out.

OP, I think you need to go ahead and find other childcare arrangements for your children because this actually sounds like they aren't going to respect your desire for your brother to not interact with your children. Your number 1 priority has to be that your kids are not exposed to your brother. Because it does not sound like they even know him which is stressful enough. But there is a reason why many addicts end up losing custody of their kids.

I grew up with an uncle that had similar issues. He also did the using tuition money for drugs. My grandparents let him live with them his entire life and in addition to that he periodically would steal random stuff/money from them. But it didn't get to your parents level because they were very wealthy. My grandparents would also try to force the rest of the family to pretend he wasn't on drugs. The only memories I have of him during my childhood are him having random rages about stupid stuff on christmas, being high as a kite at a family reunion, and arguing with my mother about having stolen her wedding silver at thanksgiving. My cousin, his son, has told me that one of his only early childhood memories is finding him passed out in the gutter near their house. Do not expose your children to that. And btw the approach that your parents are doing is actually what my grandparents did and it does not work. my uncle is still on drugs as an adult in his late 60s.

I agree with PP that said you should get your parents into low income senior housing that your brother is not able to live in. You also should not pay your parents rent if he is going to be living with them. There's actually a number of decent low income senior housing in Montgomery county. And I think there might be a few places in Arlington County. Additionally, I think you may be able to get your parents a social worker that deals with elderly folks.

Stay strong and please seek out support for yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find a different childcare arrangement. Help your parents apply for low income housing and find other jobs. If your brother does move to the area, it's unreasonable to think you will be able to keep him away from your kids if your kids are in your parents care regularly.

Boundaries are key when dealing with this level of mental illness.

Your parents are incapable of setting them with your brother; honestly you have issues too since you were paying for their rent even before you knew all the money was gone (or you were taking their free childcare? Either way, holidays and family dinners)

You can't keep them from their son, so you must get your own childcare and have them find assisted housing. I would have then pursue bankruptcy as well; that will help them prioritize and maybe enforce their limitations on what they give your brother.

You do not want to the one paying rent (are you on the lease?) for the place where your brother lives; as a loose cannon you could be liable for damage etc.

Al-anon stat.

My parents are giving me free childcare -- I pay for them to live rent free while they watch my kids. I guess I didn't make that clear enough before -- they are being paid in kind with free rent, and I get the bonus of having my nice parents care for my kids. I can certainly hire an au pair or nanny to care for my children, but I can't afford to also pay for my parents' rent if I do that. I am not that wealthy. I realize that if my brother moves out here I wil lnot be able to stop him being around my parents, which means it would no longer be acceptable for my parents to provide childcare for my kids. I've told them that. I want to prevent him moving here at almost any cost, but I am not willing to pay off his debts unless he gets in a treatment program.

You mustn't spend any more energy monitoring the actions of your brother. He is beyond your help or control. Do NOT pay of his debts in exchange for treatment, because he will walk out of that treatment facility. Don't have anything to do with him.

You are right that your parents cannot watch your kids anymore. You will need to check each time you see them that your brother will not tag along, and if that's the case, you just turn around and go home.

If they let him sleep in their apartment, you do not pay the rent (that you won't be able to afford anyway, so that's moot).

This is really the end of the road for you and your family, OP. If your parents are unwilling to cut your brother off, you will not be interacting with them to the level you have in the past. It's THEIR choice and THEIR guilt. You need to look out for your finances and your children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find a different childcare arrangement. Help your parents apply for low income housing and find other jobs. If your brother does move to the area, it's unreasonable to think you will be able to keep him away from your kids if your kids are in your parents care regularly.

Boundaries are key when dealing with this level of mental illness.

Your parents are incapable of setting them with your brother; honestly you have issues too since you were paying for their rent even before you knew all the money was gone (or you were taking their free childcare? Either way, holidays and family dinners)

You can't keep them from their son, so you must get your own childcare and have them find assisted housing. I would have then pursue bankruptcy as well; that will help them prioritize and maybe enforce their limitations on what they give your brother.

You do not want to the one paying rent (are you on the lease?) for the place where your brother lives; as a loose cannon you could be liable for damage etc.

Al-anon stat.

My parents are giving me free childcare -- I pay for them to live rent free while they watch my kids. I guess I didn't make that clear enough before -- they are being paid in kind with free rent, and I get the bonus of having my nice parents care for my kids. I can certainly hire an au pair or nanny to care for my children, but I can't afford to also pay for my parents' rent if I do that. I am not that wealthy. I realize that if my brother moves out here I wil lnot be able to stop him being around my parents, which means it would no longer be acceptable for my parents to provide childcare for my kids. I've told them that. I want to prevent him moving here at almost any cost, but I am not willing to pay off his debts unless he gets in a treatment program.

Anonymous wrote:Find a different childcare arrangement. Help your parents apply for low income housing and find other jobs. If your brother does move to the area, it's unreasonable to think you will be able to keep him away from your kids if your kids are in your parents care regularly.

Boundaries are key when dealing with this level of mental illness.

Your parents are incapable of setting them with your brother; honestly you have issues too since you were paying for their rent even before you knew all the money was gone (or you were taking their free childcare? Either way, holidays and family dinners)

You can't keep them from their son, so you must get your own childcare and have them find assisted housing. I would have then pursue bankruptcy as well; that will help them prioritize and maybe enforce their limitations on what they give your brother.

You do not want to the one paying rent (are you on the lease?) for the place where your brother lives; as a loose cannon you could be liable for damage etc.

Al-anon stat.

Find a different childcare arrangement. Help your parents apply for low income housing and find other jobs. If your brother does move to the area, it's unreasonable to think you will be able to keep him away from your kids if your kids are in your parents care regularly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to look into low income senior housing and assisted living situations where he cannot live there. Your parents need to apply for food stamps and medical (assuming they are getting social security). You need to tell them that you cannot afford child care and their housing and its one or the other but brother is not to be around your kids. In some areas here, like Montgomery County, there are free treatment programs. he needs to go to one.

Except that's not true.

I think that you focus on taking care of your parents, who, while they might be enabling your brother, also understandably don't want to abandon their child. It's easy to say "cut him off," but when it's your child, it's very hard for some people to do (as it should be! We want our parents to love us unconditionally!) I agree--help them apply for any benefits they might qualify for, and give them assistance in non-cash forms so they can't give it to your brother (have groceries delivered, pay rent directly, etc.). And do make clear that your brother is not welcome in the apartment you pay for, and may not be around your kids ever, even if they are also there. Enforce that by calling the cops if needed.

Talk to your siblings about making a plan to help your parents as they age. If you are all on the same page about your brother, that will help enormously. Do look into options like assisted living and senior housing.

You are not going to be able to make your brother do anything he doesn't want to, and it sounds like he has a serious drug addiction and probably some other serious mental health issues.

She said that they are her childcare. So what about that statement isn't true? She's spending the money on their rent that she would have to spend on a nanny/daycare.

Right, so why would she tell them she can't afford that situation? Unless she's threatening to stop paying their rent.

I think she's saying that a childcare situation in which her children are being cared for in the same apartment as a drug addict would not work for her. Thus, she can't pay their rent and hire a nanny, which is true of a lot people. I certainly couldn't afford to pay someone's rent in the D.C. Area and pay for a nanny
For two children.