Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 13:25     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:Let me understand this. So they will select kids for Takoma Math/Science program without using math in the assessment test??


Okay, that is pretty funny. Nice work MCPS.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 13:09     Subject: High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
PP, you forgot

Clearspring - GS 9
Roberto Clemente MS - GS 8
Poolesville HS - GS 8
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 13:05     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Of course you could not find any explicit evidence for that race is one of considerations for admission into magnet program. They made it clear that the selection process is race neutral. So what? Why the changes are needed for competitive academic merit-based magnet programs? Because the students admitted into the selective programs not doing so well in their way down to high schools or colleges? Why all the gifted programs from elementary to high schools are localized in schools with greatschool ratings around 5 to 6 even lower (Cold spring or Chevy Chase ES HPG is somewhat exception)? This year, 4 kids left my DC's elementary GT program since they could not catch up with curriculum. All of them are from under-representative groups. I am wondering what will happen if these seats were issued to kids from over-representative groups? If MCPS keep playing this kind of games (changing the name of highly gifted center, change the curriculum, change the name and style of test, including tons of non-objective evaluation criteria), the program will be or has been watered down. Why nobody talking about or worried about any changes to magnet programs in Parkland, Argyle and Loiederman middle schools? It is lottery based program, only depending on your luck. MCPS definitely could use lottery to decide the seats for Takoma and Eastern magnet programs. It would be the best solution to reflect the demorgraphy of MCPS enrollment.


Goddamit, you are going to make me waste 10 minutes of my time demonstrating that this isn't true. But I'll do it, because you seem to be assuming that any school with Black kids must be a GS 5 or 6.

Pine Crest - GS8
Piney Branch - GS7
Oak View - GS5
Matsunaga - GS9
Rachel Carson - GS9
Stonegate ES - GS8
Fox Chapel - GS8
Barnsley - GS9

Takoma Park MS - GS10
Eastern MS - GS8
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 13:04     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Of course you could not find any explicit evidence for that race is one of considerations for admission into magnet program. They made it clear that the selection process is race neutral. So what? Why the changes are needed for competitive academic merit-based magnet programs? Because the students admitted into the selective programs not doing so well in their way down to high schools or colleges?[b] Why all the gifted programs from elementary to high schools are localized in schools with greatschool ratings around 5 to 6 even lower (Cold spring or Chevy Chase ES HPG is somewhat exception)? This year, 4 kids left my DC's elementary GT program since they could not catch up with curriculum. All of them are from under-representative groups. I am wondering what will happen if these seats were issued to kids from over-representative groups? If MCPS keep playing this kind of games (changing the name of highly gifted center, change the curriculum, change the name and style of test, including tons of non-objective evaluation criteria), the program will be or has been watered down. Why nobody talking about or worried about any changes to magnet programs in Parkland, Argyle and Loiederman middle schools? It is lottery based program, only depending on your luck. MCPS definitely could use lottery to decide the seats for Takoma and Eastern magnet programs. It would be the best solution to reflect the demorgraphy of MCPS enrollment.[/b]

Goddamit, you are going to make me waste 10 minutes of my time demonstrating that this isn't true. But I'll do it, because you seem to be assuming that any school with Black kids must be a GS 5 or 6.

Pine Crest - GS8
Piney Branch - GS7
Oak View - GS5
Matsunaga - GS9
Rachel Carson - GS9
Stonegate ES - GS8
Fox Chapel - GS8
Barnsley - GS9

Takoma Park MS - GS10
Eastern MS - GS8
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 11:58     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:

Of course you could not find any explicit evidence for that race is one of considerations for admission into magnet program. They made it clear that the selection process is race neutral. So what? Why the changes are needed for competitive academic merit-based magnet programs? Because the students admitted into the selective programs not doing so well in their way down to high schools or colleges? Why all the gifted programs from elementary to high schools are localized in schools with greatschool ratings around 5 to 6 even lower (Cold spring or Chevy Chase ES HPG is somewhat exception)? This year, 4 kids left my DC's elementary GT program since they could not catch up with curriculum. All of them are from under-representative groups. I am wondering what will happen if these seats were issued to kids from over-representative groups? If MCPS keep playing this kind of games (changing the name of highly gifted center, change the curriculum, change the name and style of test, including tons of non-objective evaluation criteria), the program will be or has been watered down. Why nobody talking about or worried about any changes to magnet programs in Parkland, Argyle and Loiederman middle schools? It is lottery based program, only depending on your luck. MCPS definitely could use lottery to decide the seats for Takoma and Eastern magnet programs. It would be the best solution to reflect the demorgraphy of MCPS enrollment.


The short version of your post is, "I don't have any evidence that they're doing it, but I know they are."
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 11:50     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I have seen AA and HI students who were taken in highly selective programs just to boost MCPS numbers crash and burn in these programs. Currently, many students in the magnet programs are supplementing in some way and they are not relying just on the magnet programs to get ahead. The test prep centers have also become a tutoring center since many years. Students who are attending these centers are not going there because they need academic intervention, in fact many of these students are much more accelerated than the magnet programs that they are in.



Back up here. Let's start with -- how do you know that these students were admitted "just to boost MCPS numbers"?

If you have proof that MCPS is using race as a factor in admissions to magnet programs, then you should go to DOJ, because that's illegal.


Of course you could not find any explicit evidence for that race is one of considerations for admission into magnet program. They made it clear that the selection process is race neutral. So what? Why the changes are needed for competitive academic merit-based magnet programs? Because the students admitted into the selective programs not doing so well in their way down to high schools or colleges? Why all the gifted programs from elementary to high schools are localized in schools with greatschool ratings around 5 to 6 even lower (Cold spring or Chevy Chase ES HPG is somewhat exception)? This year, 4 kids left my DC's elementary GT program since they could not catch up with curriculum. All of them are from under-representative groups. I am wondering what will happen if these seats were issued to kids from over-representative groups? If MCPS keep playing this kind of games (changing the name of highly gifted center, change the curriculum, change the name and style of test, including tons of non-objective evaluation criteria), the program will be or has been watered down. Why nobody talking about or worried about any changes to magnet programs in Parkland, Argyle and Loiederman middle schools? It is lottery based program, only depending on your luck. MCPS definitely could use lottery to decide the seats for Takoma and Eastern magnet programs. It would be the best solution to reflect the demorgraphy of MCPS enrollment.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 11:03     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I have seen AA and HI students who were taken in highly selective programs just to boost MCPS numbers crash and burn in these programs. Currently, many students in the magnet programs are supplementing in some way and they are not relying just on the magnet programs to get ahead. The test prep centers have also become a tutoring center since many years. Students who are attending these centers are not going there because they need academic intervention, in fact many of these students are much more accelerated than the magnet programs that they are in.



Back up here. Let's start with -- how do you know that these students were admitted "just to boost MCPS numbers"?

If you have proof that MCPS is using race as a factor in admissions to magnet programs, then you should go to DOJ, because that's illegal.


She doesn't. She's just assuming that any poor or working class kid of color is a pity admit.


FYI - Poor and working class does not mean only Blacks and Hispanics. There are Asians and Whites in the school system and magnets who are poor, working class as well as the working poor! The achievement gap is not talking about poor Asians and Whites. It is solely dedicated to AA and HI - regardless of how well off the individuals are.


Of course not, but PP specifically calls out Hispanic and Black kids who she assumes were some sort of affirmative action admission case. Note that she does not call out poor white kids, who presumably face the same structural issues as poor Black kids. That's because she can't see the poor white kids, since they aren't set apart by their skin color. It's just the Black and Hispanic kids who are assumed to have not made it on merit.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:59     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:
She doesn't. She's just assuming that any poor or working class kid of color is a pity admit.


FYI - Poor and working class does not mean only Blacks and Hispanics. There are Asians and Whites in the school system and magnets who are poor, working class as well as the working poor! The achievement gap is not talking about poor Asians and Whites. It is solely dedicated to AA and HI - regardless of how well off the individuals are.


That is factually incorrect. It also relates to poor kids of any racial/ethnic background. The barriers to entry also relate to poor kids of any racial/ethnic background. Read the Metis report.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:57     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I have seen AA and HI students who were taken in highly selective programs just to boost MCPS numbers crash and burn in these programs. Currently, many students in the magnet programs are supplementing in some way and they are not relying just on the magnet programs to get ahead. The test prep centers have also become a tutoring center since many years. Students who are attending these centers are not going there because they need academic intervention, in fact many of these students are much more accelerated than the magnet programs that they are in.



Back up here. Let's start with -- how do you know that these students were admitted "just to boost MCPS numbers"?

If you have proof that MCPS is using race as a factor in admissions to magnet programs, then you should go to DOJ, because that's illegal.


She doesn't. She's just assuming that any poor or working class kid of color is a pity admit.


FYI - Poor and working class does not mean only Blacks and Hispanics. There are Asians and Whites in the school system and magnets who are poor, working class as well as the working poor! The achievement gap is not talking about poor Asians and Whites. It is solely dedicated to AA and HI - regardless of how well off the individuals are.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:53     Subject: High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:Wait. If, as you say, "many students" in the magnets are getting expensive outside of school support, why not just slow down the curriculum?

Everyone complains about how MCPS is going to "water down" the magnets, but it sounds like the magnets may actually NEED to be watered down if the only way to do well in them is to pay for outside tutoring.


Seems that you are lacking reading comprehension.

The magnet students are doing enrichment activities and acceleration outside of the school day that is BEYOND The magnet program. It can be for AP courses that the schools do not offer, it could be for Robotics that the schools do not offer, it could be for college level computer courses because MCPS is doing a piss poor job, it could be for Maths beyond what the schools offer.

Magnets as well as MCPS has already slowed down to "accommodate" those are behind in the achievement gap. Still, you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink.

Before 2.0, the magnet students were routinely taking classes in Math that were several years ahead. Most MS magnet students were being bussed to High Schools and community college to take these courses. Just because MCPS has slowed down, does not mean that magnet students have slowed down.

Look around at the websites of the private and public colleges and universities. The entire CTY program in John Hopkins is about capturing this market. And CTY makes no apologies about the kind of students they admit. Everyone is offering accelerated courses for "Gifted Students" because the schools are not offering these courses, not even in the magnet programs.

Why then the rush to get into the magnet programs? Mainly because of the peer group of highly intelligent and motivated students and like-minded parents.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:52     Subject: High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:Another thing has been mentioned is whether the kid has chance to find academic peer group in your home middle school. Very trick part, highly implicating you must do much better in some W school to be invited to attend these selective programs. Actually, same thing has been happening in elementary gifted centers. Competition into Cold Spring GT program is totally different story from into Barnslay, Clear Spring, Dr. Chews, Pineoak. I do know a couple of kids have much higher score than admitted kids in non-Cold Spring GT program, but they even could not be put on waiting list in Cold Spring GT program.


Dr. Chews??
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:49     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I have seen AA and HI students who were taken in highly selective programs just to boost MCPS numbers crash and burn in these programs. Currently, many students in the magnet programs are supplementing in some way and they are not relying just on the magnet programs to get ahead. The test prep centers have also become a tutoring center since many years. Students who are attending these centers are not going there because they need academic intervention, in fact many of these students are much more accelerated than the magnet programs that they are in.



Back up here. Let's start with -- how do you know that these students were admitted "just to boost MCPS numbers"?

If you have proof that MCPS is using race as a factor in admissions to magnet programs, then you should go to DOJ, because that's illegal.


She doesn't. She's just assuming that any poor or working class kid of color is a pity admit.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:43     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:

I have seen AA and HI students who were taken in highly selective programs just to boost MCPS numbers crash and burn in these programs. Currently, many students in the magnet programs are supplementing in some way and they are not relying just on the magnet programs to get ahead. The test prep centers have also become a tutoring center since many years. Students who are attending these centers are not going there because they need academic intervention, in fact many of these students are much more accelerated than the magnet programs that they are in.



Back up here. Let's start with -- how do you know that these students were admitted "just to boost MCPS numbers"?

If you have proof that MCPS is using race as a factor in admissions to magnet programs, then you should go to DOJ, because that's illegal.
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:36     Subject: High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:They said the selection is race neutral, the performance on assessment will be used to validate your general school performance (Grade 5 first marking period, MAP-M, MAP-R). Some key data points may be missing from some kids' profile, such as students from private schools, from non-MCPS schools before Grade 5.


The selection must be race-neutral, by law.


BY LAW? Hopefully! It is so clear that they remove math part to alleviate this outstanding strength for Asian kids. My DC does not care about this change at all. But, the test focus on literacy and reasoning, which would automatically put HGC kids a better position provided that ES gifted program is humanity focused.


No, No, No. Spatial reasoning will gather the kids that would be good in a TP type school - it's not about taking "Asian" kids out of it (btw - "Asian" does not automatically bestow some magical math ability on a child - just fyi). By not testing math skills that can be taught, learned and gamed through Kumon/other math drilling centers, they are trying to level the playing field - because such a test is not a fair indication of any child's giftedness - but is a fair indication of how much involvement the family has. Since the purpose of this broadened classification and testing is to take the family involvment out of the equation, then a skills-based math assessment in January is not necessary. Further, the children who are doing very well in Compacted Math and on Map-M will have that show up in the other information that IS considered.


This is a good example of questions of the type that could be found on a spatial reasoning test - it's not something that would be humanities focused or math-focused - it's just testing the way the brain works:

https://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/tests/spatialtest.htm
Anonymous
Post 10/13/2017 10:35     Subject: Re:High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let me understand this. So they will select kids for Takoma Math/Science program without using math in the assessment test??


Because not all students do well in assessment tests. Some students are mathematical but that is exhibited in other areas - singing, dancing or sports, for example.

Some kids are good in math and science, except it is not evident in their school work or tests. They may be even failing in standardized tests but you can understand that they are gifted because that is evident by their painting or drawing skills.

Painting and drawing skills are very important for a child who may one day become a plastic surgeon.



This might be on-point satire if the application process for the Takoma Math/Science program involved demonstration of painting and drawing skills. But it doesn't.


This assessment is based on intuition of the selection committee and of course the applicant's skin color.