OP, do you have any idea of his rank in the class? I know that most privates don't want to tell you this, but did he get Cum Laude distinction, or did the school signal that he is in the top 10-20%?

OP here. Thanks for all the comments, it has been very helpful!

I ll try to answer all the questions:

The counselor has told us that there are kids who have made it to HYPS with similar profiles in the past, but also said that especially for Harvard and Stanford most (but not all) of the kids who have gotten in during the past few years had something very extraordinary or were legacy. But she told us that because our son is so set on applying there then we should let him since there is a small chance he could make it.

Re Major: He wants to study bioengineering and do either a second major or a minor in economics. In terms of long-term career he is not sure yet, he either wants to do research, or become a health economist (i.e. do Phd) or work in the business side of healthcare/life sciences.

Re ECs: He founded the life sciences club at his high school, is editor in chief of the school newspaper and co-president of the comm service club.

Re internship experience: He worked in a biology lab at Columbia two summers ago and this past summer he interned at the Fed (got this through family connections of course).

And yes we are white.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all this talk of kids with top scores, top grades, and good EC's ABSOLUTELY not getting in to HYPSM -- well, we know that each year, some kids get in from the top privates, RMIB, Blair magnet, as well as the Bethesda public schools, at least. I thought that at least some of those kids didn't have EXTRAORDINARY awards and EC's, but that it was basically a lottery and so you couldn't count on getting in that way and likely wouldn't. So could some of you who have had kids get into HYPSM chime in here? Did each of your kids have that national award or extraordinary EC?

It's NOT a lottery. That is just what is thrown around to make rejected applicants feel better. To answer your question: the kids I know who got in ALL had something. In other words, high scorers with volunteer, school clubs, internships...did not get in. The ones who got in were URM, athletic recruit, talent recruit, intel/seimens winner, presidential scholar. When you have 35K applicants for 1500 spots think about it. They will accept 750 of your kids gender. Out of those 750, 250 will be URM. So now we are down to 500. Out of those 500, 100 will be athletic recruits. Now we are left with 400. Take out 30 for special cases...Malia etc. Now we are down to 370. Gotta take from 50 states and international. So if you are in DC/MD area, you are down to I'd say 30 girls tops....and you know they will have legacy status among that pool, and incredible talent in that pool. And don't forget they like low-income..so they need that from those 30. And they take 40% from private/religious...so that's 12 white girls from private and 18 white girls from public in a very large metro area.

OK, even accepting your premises (and I'll note that you left out Asians in your calculations when you got down to the "white girls"), are you saying that those 30 girls are extraordinary on the level of national awards and Siemens winners? Because it's pretty hard to win a national award -- unless the "national" award is not really that competitive. How about the kids that are state or regional music or debate or chess winners (not necessarily first place), along with their 4.0 and 1570 SAT and slew of AP's, some leadership positions, some sports etc, -- I consider that good but not extraordinary EC's, and that's what my question is driving at. I don't know the answer, so I'm not challenging the response, just seeking clarification.

Not that PP but our private and highly ranked public schools are filled with legacy to take those 30 spots plus you have schools like TJ and Blair that groom for national and international contests. And even only 1/3 of legacy get in those Ivy or Ivy like schools. The state/regional level kids don't cut it at HYPSM if that's all they have and they have to show early love to the others. To try to make you feel better, once these smart kids get to their colleges, none of this matters any more because the qualities they have are valued at the school they landed at. So approach that early card with wisdom not illusions.

One kid I know who got into Harvard, according to his Admitsee is "native american"….He's Indian. I guess he could have claimed "confused" by the boxes. He was SAL, good scores, a good musician, well liked in the school…closest thing to "normal". Not sure he would have gotten in if he didn't check "native american"

Anonymous wrote:Forget Presidential scholar being enough. A Harvard article stated that they only take 5% based on academic talent. That's 95% for everything else. The fashion right now is to be pointy. So if that high academic kid wasn't out there spending his free time doing contests and summer college courses, he's not going to compete well against the Intel winners in that 5% bucket. It is not a lottery and not fair but it's been this way for years. And once you've been through the grist mill once with your first kid, you approach the next in line very differently. In the end, most kids will be happy where they land if they prioritize just one factor that is important to them whether that be prestige, academics or social. In OP's case, it appears prestige so I would use the double legacy card ED. It's not as if Columbia weren't highly respected in the same academic and professional circles.

I'm the OR from above and I agree. The 5% thing is hard to believe, but I'd like to read that article.

Forget Presidential scholar being enough. A Harvard article stated that they only take 5% based on academic talent. That's 95% for everything else. The fashion right now is to be pointy. So if that high academic kid wasn't out there spending his free time doing contests and summer college courses, he's not going to compete well against the Intel winners in that 5% bucket. It is not a lottery and not fair but it's been this way for years. And once you've been through the grist mill once with your first kid, you approach the next in line very differently. In the end, most kids will be happy where they land if they prioritize just one factor that is important to them whether that be prestige, academics or social. In OP's case, it appears prestige so I would use the double legacy card ED. It's not as if Columbia weren't highly respected in the same academic and professional circles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all this talk of kids with top scores, top grades, and good EC's ABSOLUTELY not getting in to HYPSM -- well, we know that each year, some kids get in from the top privates, RMIB, Blair magnet, as well as the Bethesda public schools, at least. I thought that at least some of those kids didn't have EXTRAORDINARY awards and EC's, but that it was basically a lottery and so you couldn't count on getting in that way and likely wouldn't. So could some of you who have had kids get into HYPSM chime in here? Did each of your kids have that national award or extraordinary EC?

It's NOT a lottery. That is just what is thrown around to make rejected applicants feel better. To answer your question: the kids I know who got in ALL had something. In other words, high scorers with volunteer, school clubs, internships...did not get in. The ones who got in were URM, athletic recruit, talent recruit, intel/seimens winner, presidential scholar. When you have 35K applicants for 1500 spots think about it. They will accept 750 of your kids gender. Out of those 750, 250 will be URM. So now we are down to 500. Out of those 500, 100 will be athletic recruits. Now we are left with 400. Take out 30 for special cases...Malia etc. Now we are down to 370. Gotta take from 50 states and international. So if you are in DC/MD area, you are down to I'd say 30 girls tops....and you know they will have legacy status among that pool, and incredible talent in that pool. And don't forget they like low-income..so they need that from those 30. And they take 40% from private/religious...so that's 12 white girls from private and 18 white girls from public in a very large metro area.

OK, even accepting your premises (and I'll note that you left out Asians in your calculations when you got down to the "white girls"), are you saying that those 30 girls are extraordinary on the level of national awards and Siemens winners? Because it's pretty hard to win a national award -- unless the "national" award is not really that competitive. How about the kids that are state or regional music or debate or chess winners (not necessarily first place), along with their 4.0 and 1570 SAT and slew of AP's, some leadership positions, some sports etc, -- I consider that good but not extraordinary EC's, and that's what my question is driving at. I don't know the answer, so I'm not challenging the response, just seeking clarification.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all this talk of kids with top scores, top grades, and good EC's ABSOLUTELY not getting in to HYPSM -- well, we know that each year, some kids get in from the top privates, RMIB, Blair magnet, as well as the Bethesda public schools, at least. I thought that at least some of those kids didn't have EXTRAORDINARY awards and EC's, but that it was basically a lottery and so you couldn't count on getting in that way and likely wouldn't. So could some of you who have had kids get into HYPSM chime in here? Did each of your kids have that national award or extraordinary EC?

It's NOT a lottery. That is just what is thrown around to make rejected applicants feel better. To answer your question: the kids I know who got in ALL had something. In other words, high scorers with volunteer, school clubs, internships...did not get in. The ones who got in were URM, athletic recruit, talent recruit, intel/seimens winner, presidential scholar. When you have 35K applicants for 1500 spots think about it. They will accept 750 of your kids gender. Out of those 750, 250 will be URM. So now we are down to 500. Out of those 500, 100 will be athletic recruits. Now we are left with 400. Take out 30 for special cases...Malia etc. Now we are down to 370. Gotta take from 50 states and international. So if you are in DC/MD area, you are down to I'd say 30 girls tops....and you know they will have legacy status among that pool, and incredible talent in that pool. And don't forget they like low-income..so they need that from those 30. And they take 40% from private/religious...so that's 12 white girls from private and 18 white girls from public in a very large metro area.

Sobering but probably accurate.

Anonymous wrote:With all this talk of kids with top scores, top grades, and good EC's ABSOLUTELY not getting in to HYPSM -- well, we know that each year, some kids get in from the top privates, RMIB, Blair magnet, as well as the Bethesda public schools, at least. I thought that at least some of those kids didn't have EXTRAORDINARY awards and EC's, but that it was basically a lottery and so you couldn't count on getting in that way and likely wouldn't. So could some of you who have had kids get into HYPSM chime in here? Did each of your kids have that national award or extraordinary EC?

It's NOT a lottery. That is just what is thrown around to make rejected applicants feel better. To answer your question: the kids I know who got in ALL had something. In other words, high scorers with volunteer, school clubs, internships...did not get in. The ones who got in were URM, athletic recruit, talent recruit, intel/seimens winner, presidential scholar. When you have 35K applicants for 1500 spots think about it. They will accept 750 of your kids gender. Out of those 750, 250 will be URM. So now we are down to 500. Out of those 500, 100 will be athletic recruits. Now we are left with 400. Take out 30 for special cases...Malia etc. Now we are down to 370. Gotta take from 50 states and international. So if you are in DC/MD area, you are down to I'd say 30 girls tops....and you know they will have legacy status among that pool, and incredible talent in that pool. And don't forget they like low-income..so they need that from those 30. And they take 40% from private/religious...so that's 12 white girls from private and 18 white girls from public in a very large metro area.

With all this talk of kids with top scores, top grades, and good EC's ABSOLUTELY not getting in to HYPSM -- well, we know that each year, some kids get in from the top privates, RMIB, Blair magnet, as well as the Bethesda public schools, at least. I thought that at least some of those kids didn't have EXTRAORDINARY awards and EC's, but that it was basically a lottery and so you couldn't count on getting in that way and likely wouldn't. So could some of you who have had kids get into HYPSM chime in here? Did each of your kids have that national award or extraordinary EC?

I think she's right to think this through if her son is basically any Ivy per that list. Recent observation of a no hook kid in top private that had higher GPA, stats and similar ECs was that the legacy and athletic hooks trump the high academic (unless you have international competition wins or a major art portfolio).

Anonymous wrote:Jesus. Helicopter parent much? He has told you what he wants to do. He's almost an adult.

I think she concerned about "bird in the hand"….and she should be, bc if his only hook is if he applies ED, then, there is a very good chance he is out RD. Hey OP-did he take AP classes? What was the club he founded? Any sprouts/music/awards? What did he do in the summer?

Jesus. Helicopter parent much? He has told you what he wants to do. He's almost an adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Columbia was his 3rd choice behind H & S I'd say apply ED to Columbia. But since there are 3 other schools he likes better let him apply to H & S. He won't get in but that's better than not trying and going the rest of his life thinking he might have gotten in.

OP here, sadly Columbia is not even his 3rd choice, which is surprising because both i and my husband have always spoken very highly of our experience there. Maybe he is just rebelling a bit...idk
His list of reaches in order of preference is:

1.Harvard/Stanford
3.Yale
4.Princeton
5. Penn
6.Columbia
7.Brown

Why do you say that he definitely won't get in? I know he has nothing super extraordinary, but I thought with his top scores and good ECs there might be a chance.

I know a lot of double legacy Harvard and Princeton kids who did not get in - all top scorers and ECs

thisx1000

Is he white?