Anonymous wrote:We're in San Francisco, and I've been fascinated to see there's no "popular" here. A poor kid wearing too-short pants and off-brand clothes can be popular. You are disliked here if you are a bully or very badly behaved.

I wanted my DD to be confident and have friends and do well in school.

We are in Dublin and the status seeking to be popular is out of control!!!

How I wish we could afford SF since no one can tell the difference between rich/poor, loser/popular.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Popular exists only in the minds of parents. This shouldn't even be on your radar, OP.

These days, teens find like-minded friends no matter how quirky. The extroverted will perhaps give off the aura of being "popular", since they smile and talk with everyone, but everyone, most of all themselves (!), know how fleeting and superficial that is.

Please focus your energies elsewhere.

Not the OP, but this is completely incorrect. I have a 13 yr. old daughter and she (and her friends) are very aware of who the "popular" kids are. That's what they call them, in fact. The "popular" girls (and boys) are the ones who skew promiscuous. The girls wear incredibly short shorts (showing butt cheek) and show too much skin all over. They are typically not very smart or nice and talk like Kim Kardashian. They post inappropriate pictures of themselves at parties. And no, the "popular" do not smile and talk with everyone - they stay very much to themselves and their own insular cliques. Popular doesn't mean what you think it means these days. And yes, this is what is reported by my daughter and her friends. It's not just me, or "existing only the minds of parents."

I do agree that teens find like-minded friends. My daughter is in what seems to be the "normal" group - not popular as defined above, but still plenty of friends (who don't act like the above descriptions).

Wow! Talk about generalizing and rationalizing to make yourself feel better about your 13!!! year old not being "popular." The fact is that teens today don't know how to maintain and keep friendships and this popularity is becoming antiquated term. But to you popular means a slut? Talk about being in the dark ages. Sad fact is that you have no clue what you are talking about. Nobody is truly popular anymore, they are all staring at their phones and think they are popular if they get a like, and very few have meaningful circle of friends like teens did in the past.

Wow yourself. Seems I hit a nerve. I never said my daughter didn't have friends - I said she's not part of that "popular" group, for which I'm very grateful. I don't know where your kids go to school, but at my daughter's MS, the "popular" crowd is very much the promiscuous crowd. They hook up with each other at parties and then post about it. They make out in the hallway when the administrators aren't around. They even hook up in the school bathrooms. So, that's what "popular" means at my daughter's school. Sorry it somehow makes you feel bad. I'm also sorry your teen "doesn't know how to maintain and keep friendships." If anything, it sounds like you know your daughter can't make good friends and you're generalizing and rationalizing that *no* teen is able to do this. Which makes you the one who "has no clue."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From OP - we're not obsessed with it. My DD brought it up and I've heard other girls bring it up as well. It is still a thing in school and parents are naive if they think kids have evolved away from this. I wish it wasn't still a thing but it is.

+1
Yep. The PPs claiming this isn't a "real" thing are either very naïve or don't have kids in middle school yet (or both). Back in the day when most of us were in school, popular usually referred to the kids who were well-liked, nice to everybody, just generally standouts. Nowadays, it doesn't have a very positive connotation. "Popular" usually refers to the slutty people, to be frank. Both girls and boys.

When was this? When I was in high school, in the 1980s, that's not what "popular" meant. It meant that you were good-looking, wore the latest clothes, had a lot of confidence in yourself (or seemed to), and went to parties where everybody drank. Which, actually, is what it still seems to mean today. The "popular" kids weren't any more well-liked, nice, or outstanding then than they are now.

After one too many times hearing me ask, "Why are they 'popular' if most people don't like them?", my kids have started referring to them as "the cool kids".

Same experience here. Some of the popular kids were nice, but that's not what "popular" meant. Most of them were well-off, athletes or cheerleaders, usually good-looking, and they dressed in trendy clothes and went to parties.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From OP - we're not obsessed with it. My DD brought it up and I've heard other girls bring it up as well. It is still a thing in school and parents are naive if they think kids have evolved away from this. I wish it wasn't still a thing but it is.

+1
Yep. The PPs claiming this isn't a "real" thing are either very naïve or don't have kids in middle school yet (or both). Back in the day when most of us were in school, popular usually referred to the kids who were well-liked, nice to everybody, just generally standouts. Nowadays, it doesn't have a very positive connotation. "Popular" usually refers to the slutty people, to be frank. Both girls and boys.

When was this? When I was in high school, in the 1980s, that's not what "popular" meant. It meant that you were good-looking, wore the latest clothes, had a lot of confidence in yourself (or seemed to), and went to parties where everybody drank. Which, actually, is what it still seems to mean today. The "popular" kids weren't any more well-liked, nice, or outstanding then than they are now.

After one too many times hearing me ask, "Why are they 'popular' if most people don't like them?", my kids have started referring to them as "the cool kids".

Not the OP, but this is completely incorrect. I have a 13 yr. old daughter and she (and her friends) are very aware of who the "popular" kids are. That's what they call them, in fact. The "popular" girls (and boys) are the ones who skew promiscuous. The girls wear incredibly short shorts (showing butt cheek) and show too much skin all over. They are typically not very smart or nice and talk like Kim Kardashian. They post inappropriate pictures of themselves at parties. And no, the "popular" do not smile and talk with everyone - they stay very much to themselves and their own insular cliques. Popular doesn't mean what you think it means these days. And yes, this is what is reported by my daughter and her friends. It's not just me, or "existing only the minds of parents."

I do agree that teens find like-minded friends. My daughter is in what seems to be the "normal" group - not popular as defined above, but still plenty of friends (who don't act like the above descriptions).

+1

My DD started describing a "popular" crowd in MS, not before. The popular kids are not overtly mean/bullies from what she tells me. But they are insular - think, endless posting of Bar/Bat Mitzvah party photos to document their popularity.

I second a PP who was recommending the book "Tangled" - I feel like I have a better understanding of tweens/young teens and how "hard" keeping up popularity must be. My younger DD (only 4th grade, no "popular" crowd yet) I can imagine being more susceptible because I see the stress in determining the invitation list to her birthday party . . . balancing who gets along, who she doesn't want to leave out, etc - because she has lots of friends in several different crowds (neighborhood friends, school friends, sports team friends, pool friends . . .) My older DD (13) has fewer friends (her friend group is around 6-8 girls) and it's easy to plan a party or outing. Always the same 6-8 (or even more frequently, just her & her bestie).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Popular exists only in the minds of parents. This shouldn't even be on your radar, OP.

These days, teens find like-minded friends no matter how quirky. The extroverted will perhaps give off the aura of being "popular", since they smile and talk with everyone, but everyone, most of all themselves (!), know how fleeting and superficial that is.

Please focus your energies elsewhere.

Not the OP, but this is completely incorrect. I have a 13 yr. old daughter and she (and her friends) are very aware of who the "popular" kids are. That's what they call them, in fact. The "popular" girls (and boys) are the ones who skew promiscuous. The girls wear incredibly short shorts (showing butt cheek) and show too much skin all over. They are typically not very smart or nice and talk like Kim Kardashian. They post inappropriate pictures of themselves at parties. And no, the "popular" do not smile and talk with everyone - they stay very much to themselves and their own insular cliques. Popular doesn't mean what you think it means these days. And yes, this is what is reported by my daughter and her friends. It's not just me, or "existing only the minds of parents."

I do agree that teens find like-minded friends. My daughter is in what seems to be the "normal" group - not popular as defined above, but still plenty of friends (who don't act like the above descriptions).

Wow! Talk about generalizing and rationalizing to make yourself feel better about your 13!!! year old not being "popular." The fact is that teens today don't know how to maintain and keep friendships and this popularity is becoming antiquated term. But to you popular means a slut? Talk about being in the dark ages. Sad fact is that you have no clue what you are talking about. Nobody is truly popular anymore, they are all staring at their phones and think they are popular if they get a like, and very few have meaningful circle of friends like teens did in the past.

My 10 y.o., 5th grade DD definitely knows there is a "popular" crowd, as do her friends. At this age, it seems to be the kids who:
-have permissive parents (doesn't mean "bad" but they universally are very lenient with most things);
-have phones and text/musical.ly/snapchat/IG constantly already;
-are into boys/girls and have started "dating."

They are not all mean kids. But, they do tend to stick together to the exclusion of others. Some of them used to be my DD's friends so it can be hurtful (she's not into any of the above).

I've tried to tell her that popularity isn't a real thing. Because it's not, really. 25 years out from HS, popularity of someone in 11th grade means nothing. I told her to surround herself with kind people and be kind herself. And that life is not a sprint. Everyone develops, does things, tries things, etc. at their own pace.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Popular exists only in the minds of parents. This shouldn't even be on your radar, OP.

These days, teens find like-minded friends no matter how quirky. The extroverted will perhaps give off the aura of being "popular", since they smile and talk with everyone, but everyone, most of all themselves (!), know how fleeting and superficial that is.

Please focus your energies elsewhere.

Not the OP, but this is completely incorrect. I have a 13 yr. old daughter and she (and her friends) are very aware of who the "popular" kids are. That's what they call them, in fact. The "popular" girls (and boys) are the ones who skew promiscuous. The girls wear incredibly short shorts (showing butt cheek) and show too much skin all over. They are typically not very smart or nice and talk like Kim Kardashian. They post inappropriate pictures of themselves at parties. And no, the "popular" do not smile and talk with everyone - they stay very much to themselves and their own insular cliques. Popular doesn't mean what you think it means these days. And yes, this is what is reported by my daughter and her friends. It's not just me, or "existing only the minds of parents."

I do agree that teens find like-minded friends. My daughter is in what seems to be the "normal" group - not popular as defined above, but still plenty of friends (who don't act like the above descriptions).

Agree with PP 100%.

People who think that the concept of popularity is a thing of the past have their heads in the sand.

I have a kid in 5th grade NW DC public and there are definitely groups of popular kids. I sub at the school so I spend a lot of time in the classroom. The girls tend to be attractive, sporty, and good at school. The boys are sporty.
This particular grade doesn't have any true "mean kid" problems. But ask any kid in the grade and they'll tell you who the popular kids are.

I would prefer that my daughter NOT be "popular," but I want her to have at least a few good friends and generally to get along with most kids. I want her to be friendly and kind, to have confidence in herself and a willingness to stand up for others.

Anonymous wrote:According to my daughter, the popular girls are mostly not nice. I want my daughter to be well-like, but I also want her to be nice.

I was popular - and nice - but I don't think the popular part served me well. I suffered from really bad self-esteem issues. However, because I'm nice, I was able to recover and carry those nice qualities into adulthood. It took me awhile, however, to to understand that my "nice" qualities mattered more than being popular.

I was popular and nice, too...but largely because I have a good sense of humor. I think if you can make people laugh, you fit in with nearly everyone.

I agree that I would rather my child be nice than popular, HOWEVER, I don't necessarily consider them to be mutually exclusive. TYPICALLY, the most popular kid is not necessarily the nicest, however the ones right underneath are often lovely. So think captain of the football team (arrogant ass) but right underneath him could be lots of nice kids on the team. BROAD generalization but usually true...

I was surprised when my third grade boy described another boy in class as being popular. I thought we had evolved beyond that being a thing. I asked my son what it meant and he said the boy was smart and good at sports.

When I think about the popular kids I went to school with, it's the last thing I would want for my child.

Am reading a great book on girl development, called "untangled."

They talk about popularity--how it's often confused with "power"

Results of studies: There are popular girls (kind girls who are liked by most), powerful girls, and only a small intersection between the two. The small intersection of popular+powerful girls were kind girls who also could draw boundaries.

Most of the time, when girls are talking about "popular girls" they are really talking about "mean powerful girls"--a subset that uses social power to control, through being mean or threatening to humiliate others. They have lots of adjuncts--girls who stay in their shadow to avoid getting targeted--but those girls don't actually *like* the mean girl.

The author recommends clarifying this distinction to help girls navigate this often-hellish stage! LSS, 7th grade is the worst because mean powerful girls have discovered their power and recipients are very cowed by them. But by 10th, the potential recipients of the powerful girls' wrath have matured to a place of not being cowed by social threats, and the mean girls start to get shunned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I care that she's attractive, thin, and well liked. That's different than popular, but I've known too many ugly fat people who were popular. No thanks

Nice try, Trolly McTrollerson

I hope this is a troll. But there are certainly moms in the DMV with this attitude.

You and me both.

We're in San Francisco, and I've been fascinated to see there's no "popular" here. A poor kid wearing too-short pants and off-brand clothes can be popular. You are disliked here if you are a bully or very badly behaved.

I wanted my DD to be confident and have friends and do well in school.