If you don't know exactly how much money the church takes in, exactly how that money is spent down to the penny, and exactly how much money every single person on staff makes in salary and benefits, you are in the wrong church. Financial information should be published and available to everyone. This especially includes the pastor's salary.

I am a minister and spent years as a church administrator. Tithes and offering and any other income and expenditures to include detailed payroll information was posted on our church website quarterly. If your church is anything less than 100% transparent with finances, there is something seriously wrong.

The so-called prosperity gospel is wrong in so many ways. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be successful. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. But if a minister is making millions from the church he pastors, something is very, very wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I love Joel. And I don't really care what the negative haters and detractors say. I spent 12 years in Catholic school so I don't have much patience for guilt tripping, fire and brimstone version of religion which actually separates us from our connection to God.

Thank you Joel.

You don't see him as swarmy? You don't see that what he says is unscriptural?

- mainline Protestant

No. And as a feminist I take issue with some of the things said in the bible, particularly re: the role of women. I take the bible as the word of God- run through the lense of men, like a game of telephone. Sometimes not getting it exactly right. So I don't mind him not exactly quoting scripture. Joel is very close and in touch with God, and has brought so many people to Christ, and he is truly doing the Lord's work. He gets a lot of misinterpretation in the media but those of us who are spiritually plugged in can truly tell he is the real deal and truly walking in Christ.

Blessings to all.

Wow.

those of us who are spiritually plugged in can truly tell he is the real deal and truly walking in Christ.

That's some cult-speak right there. I wish you could hear yourself. I'm really sorry this happened to you.

Bwahahahahahahahahha. Cult speak. You're reaching... reaching hard. I'm sorry you're so obsessed with someone you don't like. I'll pray for you to get the HELL OVER IT

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked as a CPA for a very popular mega church who at the time had a very "famous" pastor. They contracted us out for some work as they grew under this new pastor. Let me tell you this: these places make MONEY. Lots and lots of MONEY. Ive served on my own (catholic) parish council so I know about church budgets but these mega churchs' do not even compare. The pastor/CEO of this operation made a flat 350k and then a percent of the overall "profits". He was easily clearing 1.5 million a year. And this isn't a pastor/preacher the average person has heard of so Im sure people like Joel Olstein are making 10s of millions. The whole experience made it very clear that they are a business first and the religion is the product. They are driven to get as many people to buy buy buy buy.

+1000 Those of us in the financial services industry who know what these people make....it is really disgusting. Especially knowing that a far amount are low income/elderly parishioners who consistently tithe.

Ugh, yes. The targeting of the elderly and recent immigrants is truly shameful.

Anonymous wrote:I worked as a CPA for a very popular mega church who at the time had a very "famous" pastor. They contracted us out for some work as they grew under this new pastor. Let me tell you this: these places make MONEY. Lots and lots of MONEY. Ive served on my own (catholic) parish council so I know about church budgets but these mega churchs' do not even compare. The pastor/CEO of this operation made a flat 350k and then a percent of the overall "profits". He was easily clearing 1.5 million a year. And this isn't a pastor/preacher the average person has heard of so Im sure people like Joel Olstein are making 10s of millions. The whole experience made it very clear that they are a business first and the religion is the product. They are driven to get as many people to buy buy buy buy.

+1000 Those of us in the financial services industry who know what these people make....it is really disgusting. Especially knowing that a far amount are low income/elderly parishioners who consistently tithe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I love Joel. And I don't really care what the negative haters and detractors say. I spent 12 years in Catholic school so I don't have much patience for guilt tripping, fire and brimstone version of religion which actually separates us from our connection to God.

Thank you Joel.

You don't see him as swarmy? You don't see that what he says is unscriptural?

- mainline Protestant

No. And as a feminist I take issue with some of the things said in the bible, particularly re: the role of women. I take the bible as the word of God- run through the lense of men, like a game of telephone. Sometimes not getting it exactly right. So I don't mind him not exactly quoting scripture. Joel is very close and in touch with God, and has brought so many people to Christ, and he is truly doing the Lord's work. He gets a lot of misinterpretation in the media but those of us who are spiritually plugged in can truly tell he is the real deal and truly walking in Christ.

Blessings to all.

Wow.

those of us who are spiritually plugged in can truly tell he is the real deal and truly walking in Christ.

That's some cult-speak right there. I wish you could hear yourself. I'm really sorry this happened to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I love Joel. And I don't really care what the negative haters and detractors say. I spent 12 years in Catholic school so I don't have much patience for guilt tripping, fire and brimstone version of religion which actually separates us from our connection to God.

Thank you Joel.

You don't see him as swarmy? You don't see that what he says is unscriptural?

- mainline Protestant

No. And as a feminist I take issue with some of the things said in the bible, particularly re: the role of women. I take the bible as the word of God- run through the lense of men, like a game of telephone. Sometimes not getting it exactly right. So I don't mind him not exactly quoting scripture. Joel is very close and in touch with God, and has brought so many people to Christ, and he is truly doing the Lord's work. He gets a lot of misinterpretation in the media but those of us who are spiritually plugged in can truly tell he is the real deal and truly walking in Christ.

Blessings to all.

Anonymous wrote:Yes I love Joel. And I don't really care what the negative haters and detractors say. I spent 12 years in Catholic school so I don't have much patience for guilt tripping, fire and brimstone version of religion which actually separates us from our connection to God.

Thank you Joel.

You don't see him as swarmy? You don't see that what he says is unscriptural?

- mainline Protestant

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They are swindlers. End of story.

Anyone with a fraction of a mind knows this. But still these corrupt scam artists thrive. I'm flabbergasted how anyone buys their shtick, and how they have so many supporters. It's mind boggling.

Smart people overestimate other people's intelligence. There are a lot of people whose reasoning skills are lower than you can fathom.

True...There are people that believe science is fake-news.

Yes I love Joel. And I don't really care what the negative haters and detractors say. I spent 12 years in Catholic school so I don't have much patience for guilt tripping, fire and brimstone version of religion which actually separates us from our connection to God.

Thank you Joel.

Anonymous wrote:I'm Christian and my husband is Jewish. One of my neighbors was a MBC member and she tried to convince my DH to listen to the story of Lon, listen to his sermons, etc so that my DH might connect with him and convert.
I guess Lon grew up Jewish?
Anyway it is incredibly disrespectful and rude to tell a Jew they need to convert. Especially since as Christians we are a younger faith and sprouted from the Jewish faith.
I'm not sure how anyone can follow the teachings of Joel Osteen and claim to understand Jesus at the same time.

They tell everyone, I do not think your man was singled out for any reason. I am OK with it because I understand how the great commission is part of the core of the religion. I really do not care, you should not either.

But I do disagree on modern Americanized mega church being a child religion of Judaism. Ancient Judaism does not exist and is very different from modern forms of the religion. I would rather classify them as sibling religions.
If you are searching for a religion similar to Judaism it is Islam

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They are swindlers. End of story.

Anyone with a fraction of a mind knows this. But still these corrupt scam artists thrive. I'm flabbergasted how anyone buys their shtick, and how they have so many supporters. It's mind boggling.

Smart people overestimate other people's intelligence. There are a lot of people whose reasoning skills are lower than you can fathom.

As evidenced by this election, I agree. A con-man, who is now president, whose base consists of misguided rubes and evangelicals who think a reality tv, trust fund kid who went bankrupt, ran a scam university and brags about grabbing pussies. Maybe is just that people aren't sophisticated or worldly. This whole cutting trade, insular, myopic America first stuff is not going to help us long term.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They are swindlers. End of story.

Anyone with a fraction of a mind knows this. But still these corrupt scam artists thrive. I'm flabbergasted how anyone buys their shtick, and how they have so many supporters. It's mind boggling.

So is the fact that they don't pay taxes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They are swindlers. End of story.

Anyone with a fraction of a mind knows this. But still these corrupt scam artists thrive. I'm flabbergasted how anyone buys their shtick, and how they have so many supporters. It's mind boggling.

Smart people overestimate other people's intelligence. There are a lot of people whose reasoning skills are lower than you can fathom.

Anonymous wrote:

They are swindlers. End of story.

Anyone with a fraction of a mind knows this. But still these corrupt scam artists thrive. I'm flabbergasted how anyone buys their shtick, and how they have so many supporters. It's mind boggling.

I have a coworker who goes to MBC. She has a severely disabled daughter (physical, developmental, intellectual disabilities) and was really taken in by the work McLean does with respite care. She is also totally a follower and is easily swayed by charismatic people.

It's frustrating. One on hand she is very empathetic and caring due to her experiences as a special needs mom. On the other hand, she is not at all caring and empathetic towards whatever group of people the Not A Sermon guy is yelling about this week.