Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody would ever claim there aren't successful alums from gigantic 10,000-40,000 student universities.

But it's like, great, you know one person from Indiana University who is a multi-millionaire? Good for him. Really. That's awesome. But that's one person. On average, from which school (Harvard or Indiana) would you say their respective graduates are enjoying better relative success? Since that data is readily available, let's take a look:

Kelley: https://kelley.iu.edu/recruiters-companies/graduate/_files/GCSEmploymentReport17-18.pdf
Harvard: http://ocs.fas.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/final_20152016_annual_report.pdf

It's clearly Harvard. To say that "it doesn't matter where you go to school" is objectively idiotic. So, brush up on those logical reasoning skills, too. Ever hear of a small sample size? An anecdote doesn't combat hard data.

Sharp parents pay big bucks to live in the tippy top public districts or claw their way into expensive premier privates to get a shot at the creme de la creme colleges. The "only grad school matters" and "we're not into the rat race" memes are what parents tell themselves after they've raised merely average children. You're just trying to rationalize your underachieving kids.

God you really suck at this human being thing. Really really suck.

I love you.
You win the Internet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, smart students do make it. I like to think I'm one. But, if you do end up with a corporate career, it is so nice to have that elite school credential when you want to switch between industries. That's a real possibility given how fast relevant careers are shifting and I think more so true today than yesterday. Being rubber stamped as smart lasts your whole life. It's a nice luxury.

Yup, this is the value of an elite school in a nutshell.

Anyone in HR with brains knows that there are a lot of factors that go into what school someone chooses. A majority of my dd's friends have GPAs over 4.0, full IB diplomas, and top SAT scores, and they're only looking at in-state schools because that's all their parents are willing to pay for. The top student that chooses to go over $200k in debt for undergrad is not necessarily someone I would view as "smart."

Well, HR people might be brainless, then, since they are the people who have made the biggest deal about my elite schools. But it's also true that after your first job, you don't really get jobs through a standard application process but rather through networking. Your alumni network from an elite school is more likely to be well-placed, as stats shared in this thread bear out.

Ultimately, though, I don't think it makes sense to go into 6 figure debt for school either (and I didn't). But it has absolutely not been my experience that employers are thinking about that when they hire people. As a hiring manager, I will say that when I am flooded with applications for a job, schools and past employers are an easy way to whittle down the list to a manageable set of candidates to interview.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, smart students do make it. I like to think I'm one. But, if you do end up with a corporate career, it is so nice to have that elite school credential when you want to switch between industries. That's a real possibility given how fast relevant careers are shifting and I think more so true today than yesterday. Being rubber stamped as smart lasts your whole life. It's a nice luxury.

Yup, this is the value of an elite school in a nutshell.

Anyone in HR with brains knows that there are a lot of factors that go into what school someone chooses. A majority of my dd's friends have GPAs over 4.0, full IB diplomas, and top SAT scores, and they're only looking at in-state schools because that's all their parents are willing to pay for. The top student that chooses to go over $200k in debt for undergrad is not necessarily someone I would view as "smart."

Anonymous wrote:Yes, smart students do make it. I like to think I'm one. But, if you do end up with a corporate career, it is so nice to have that elite school credential when you want to switch between industries. That's a real possibility given how fast relevant careers are shifting and I think more so true today than yesterday. Being rubber stamped as smart lasts your whole life. It's a nice luxury.

Yup, this is the value of an elite school in a nutshell.

Anonymous wrote:
Well of course a not particularly selective U is not going to have as good of outcomes as the most selective college in the country. I'm not sure what your point is. But the data is crystal clear that those who attend state schools but got into Ivies are just as successful as those who matriculated at the Ivies. So actually, no, it's not objectively idiotic to say it doesn't matter where you go to school. Smart students are successful regardless of where they attend for undergrad.

NP, and I think this is mostly correct, but it depends on how you define "success". I attended HYPS schools for undergrad and grad, and DH attended the same well-regarded (but not Berkeley or Michigan caliber) big public for undergrad and grad. While we have the same degree from different schools, he makes more than me and in certain ways is better regarded professionally. The advantage my elite schools have brought me is that I've easily been able to make two different career transitions; I know this because interviewers (and the employer who facilitated my most recent transition) told me as much. I suspect that if I hadn't changed careers, I would have had the opportunity to be as successful, if not more, than my DH. But I've had to change jobs because of his career...he wasn't able to find a job in the location my career would have taken me, but I was able to find one in the location where his was taking him. And, again, the latter might have been because of where I went to school.

So, to answer OP's question, you definitely don't need to go to an elite college to be successful. I think elite schools afford certain other benefits, though. How much those benefits are worth is a good question to ask. I didn't have to take out loans for school, and it's unlikely we will have to for our kids if they decide to attend either of my alma maters (or any other elite school). I would think much more carefully about the value of an elite school education if they needed to take on debt.

My husband and best friend both went to no name schools. H makes 2.5x my salary and best friend makes 6x my salary. Both have excellent business sense and social skills.

Penn State undergrad, UMD MBA. 7 figures. At my firm, no one cares about your school. It's all performance in the job.

I see a lot of mention of the smart kids who could have gone to an Ivy that end up attending a non-elite. This number is extremely low at this day and age- maybe 10% of the admit pool at these schools. Harvard's yield just reached nearly 85%, Stanford is at 80%, Yale went to a record 73% and MIT was at 72%. The other elite schools with yields in the 40-70% range lose primarily to each other and to HYPS.

We have a friend who is an admissions officer at Williams. It has a relatively poor 45% yield for its reputation, but they send out a survey to the students who never submitted a deposit to get a sense of where they went. Some 80% chose another top 10 LAC or top 20 university instead. Only 10% went to a state school, most to prestigious ones like UM, Berkeley, and UCLA.

Needless to say I don't think that the elite schools hold the exclusive quota on talent, nor do I think that high school performance determines potential and ability. But looking at the students who turned down the elites to go to a non-elite is an extremely limited scope.

Yes, smart students do make it. I like to think I'm one. But, if you do end up with a corporate career, it is so nice to have that elite school credential when you want to switch between industries. That's a real possibility given how fast relevant careers are shifting and I think more so true today than yesterday. Being rubber stamped as smart lasts your whole life. It's a nice luxury.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/business/dealbook/high-rate-of-problem-drinking-reported-among-lawyers.html

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/us-en/131760/how-banking-can-ruin-your-body-and-mind/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/young-wall-street-bankers-health-risks_n_1278947.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mean pp. OP is looking for examples of people who didn't go to Great U. And, we gave them to her. My DH and I are doing great from lousy state u., but be assured that once we entered the upper middle class, our kid went to Ivy.

Try to give hope pp to those who didn't go somewhere great. Yes, they can still be successful but it will be harder

lol

DCUM people killing themselves and their offspring going through hoop after hoop after hoop after hoop for that one shot to make it big on wall street, some white glove law firm, white glove consulting firm. Its very very rare to make it to the top and even if you do welcome to tons of hours, family problems, self-medicating through drugs and alcohol etc (believe me I've been there) vs

Sales, real estate, starting your own business which ANYONE can do and make just as much

"Sales"? lol.
One, low prestige. Two, a grind. Three, every salesman I know is a depressed drunk. Stop trying to polish low-prestige gigs every other Drunk State alum is in because they couldn't land a status gig.

I went to WVU because they gave me an awesome scholarship that none of the schools in VA were offering (got into UVA, VA Tech, and W&M).

Even with paying out-of-state tuition, I came out ahead with very little student loan debt (under $10k).

I then went to grad school at Boston Univ. for my Masters and back to WVU for my doctorate in Psychology.

I wouldn't change a thing about my college experiences.

Anonymous wrote:Nobody would ever claim there aren't successful alums from gigantic 10,000-40,000 student universities.

But it's like, great, you know one person from Indiana University who is a multi-millionaire? Good for him. Really. That's awesome. But that's one person. On average, from which school (Harvard or Indiana) would you say their respective graduates are enjoying better relative success? Since that data is readily available, let's take a look:

Kelley: https://kelley.iu.edu/recruiters-companies/graduate/_files/GCSEmploymentReport17-18.pdf
Harvard: http://ocs.fas.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/final_20152016_annual_report.pdf

It's clearly Harvard. To say that "it doesn't matter where you go to school" is objectively idiotic. So, brush up on those logical reasoning skills, too. Ever hear of a small sample size? An anecdote doesn't combat hard data.

Sharp parents pay big bucks to live in the tippy top public districts or claw their way into expensive premier privates to get a shot at the creme de la creme colleges. The "only grad school matters" and "we're not into the rat race" memes are what parents tell themselves after they've raised merely average children. You're just trying to rationalize your underachieving kids.

Well of course a not particularly selective U is not going to have as good of outcomes as the most selective college in the country. I'm not sure what your point is. But the data is crystal clear that those who attend state schools but got into Ivies are just as successful as those who matriculated at the Ivies. So actually, no, it's not objectively idiotic to say it doesn't matter where you go to school. Smart students are successful regardless of where they attend for undergrad.

Anonymous wrote:Mean pp. OP is looking for examples of people who didn't go to Great U. And, we gave them to her. My DH and I are doing great from lousy state u., but be assured that once we entered the upper middle class, our kid went to Ivy.

Try to give hope pp to those who didn't go somewhere great. Yes, they can still be successful but it will be harder

lol

DCUM people killing themselves and their offspring going through hoop after hoop after hoop after hoop for that one shot to make it big on wall street, some white glove law firm, white glove consulting firm. Its very very rare to make it to the top and even if you do welcome to tons of hours, family problems, self-medicating through drugs and alcohol etc (believe me I've been there) vs

Sales, real estate, starting your own business which ANYONE can do and make just as much

Anonymous wrote:Nobody would ever claim there aren't successful alums from gigantic 10,000-40,000 student universities.

But it's like, great, you know one person from Indiana University who is a multi-millionaire? Good for him. Really. That's awesome. But that's one person. On average, from which school (Harvard or Indiana) would you say their respective graduates are enjoying better relative success? Since that data is readily available, let's take a look:

Kelley: https://kelley.iu.edu/recruiters-companies/graduate/_files/GCSEmploymentReport17-18.pdf
Harvard: http://ocs.fas.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/final_20152016_annual_report.pdf

It's clearly Harvard. To say that "it doesn't matter where you go to school" is objectively idiotic. So, brush up on those logical reasoning skills, too. Ever hear of a small sample size? An anecdote doesn't combat hard data.

Sharp parents pay big bucks to live in the tippy top public districts or claw their way into expensive premier privates to get a shot at the creme de la creme colleges. The "only grad school matters" and "we're not into the rat race" memes are what parents tell themselves after they've raised merely average children. You're just trying to rationalize your underachieving kids.

God you really suck at this human being thing. Really really suck.