Many say that each class is different but also each kid and how they deal with it is different. My older daughter has always had friend drama and issues in her class. My younger one has never really let it bother her or has bothered with it. She'd rather just float and ignore then get involved. From a theoretical perspective I would say her class is better but I know from other parents in the grade that the drama does exist.

I find this idea of people appalled by social engineering yet they force their kids to have play dates with certain kids that bother their kids or that their kids don't like. Yes we need to teach inclusion and kindness and maturity. We also have to teach them the ability to protect themselves and not put their parents or their own need to please others in front of their own emotional needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Cliques start for girls around 2nd grade and the mean girl thing starts by 4th-5th.

-mom of boys who sees it happen over and over.

Yes, for girls. I've lived through the tears.

Mom of 4 girls.

Boys can be just as bad. Seen it first hand. I have seen a group of boys at a big three tell other boys to avoid certain boys and put their back to certain boys at a table. Their parents are equally as bad so it is clear where they learned the behavior from.

Anonymous wrote:Parents definitely socially engineer for their kids. I have seen this over and over again as well.
Certain parents will only invite their friends' kids or the "right" kids to parties--even in 3rd and 4th grade. It doesn't even matter who their kids play with at school. They only invite certain kids to parties, play dates, etc.

So true. Let me guess do the parents doing this all belong to the same club?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Cliques start for girls around 2nd grade and the mean girl thing starts by 4th-5th.

-mom of boys who sees it happen over and over.

My youngest still goes to public and cliques AND mean girls start as early as 1st. It has nothing to do with any school. Some classes are good. Some are terrible. Unfortunately my daughter's is awful. 8's going in 18. They barely play, they parol recess gossiping and subconsciously creating tiers and classes. My daughter plays soccer with the boys (she doesn't understand why they don't play and have fun like last year) so she is a social leper to those girls. Many girls and boys still don't care but it does start then.

OP, it doesn't matter what school. It depends on the kids and sadly the parents. They seem to dictate and manipulate friendships.

My 8 yo has the same problems. One girl openly excludes kids but her mom makes excuses for her, "xx can only play with one girl at a time!" I wanted to say, "Ok but why is your daughter telling others not to play with my child?" But it dawned on me that this woman is blind to bad behavior so it's just a waste of breath.

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Cliques start for girls around 2nd grade and the mean girl thing starts by 4th-5th.

-mom of boys who sees it happen over and over.

My youngest still goes to public and cliques AND mean girls start as early as 1st. It has nothing to do with any school. Some classes are good. Some are terrible. Unfortunately my daughter's is awful. 8's going in 18. They barely play, they parol recess gossiping and subconsciously creating tiers and classes. My daughter plays soccer with the boys (she doesn't understand why they don't play and have fun like last year) so she is a social leper to those girls. Many girls and boys still don't care but it does start then.

OP, it doesn't matter what school. It depends on the kids and sadly the parents. They seem to dictate and manipulate friendships.

Anonymous wrote:It starts in preschool. Most cliques are really initiated my moms.

The moms are the problems. I have never been involved in my kids' social life. They tell me who they want over and I invite them. The moms are just terrible. DD is in 3rd grade and she is often excluded and told she cannot play with anyone. She also told me the two black girls in her class are constantly picked on by the boys. It's really appalling to me and we are moving her next year. I am done with the nasty women and their sh*tty kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Totally agree PP . I think I've seen almost the opposite PP to PP... It's more the discussion of parents who assert that their daughters or sons aren't "the mean girls or boys " and then only set up playdates with kids they perceive as or have decided are"nice". Okay. Not only is this reverse labeling and kind of locking their own kid into an expectation of always being 'nice' (a lot of pressure if you ask me) , but typically, the kids who've made the grade as "nice" are the children of their very own parent's friends.

I don't really have any close friends at my child's school, just friendly acquaintances. However, I will definitely only allow my child to have play dates with kids I think are nice - whether or not I am friendly to their moms. To me, that means kids who respect the rules of our house and don't talk back to me or argue when they are here. If a kid does that, I'm not having them back over, no matter who their mom or dad is. There are enough kids that my son gets along with that I don't have to tolerate that nonsense.

I get that, but I also wonder why you are scared of kids to kindly but firmly set boundaries in your house and rather prefer to avoid them? What does that teach your son about assertiveness I wonder.

Totally agree PP . I think I've seen almost the opposite PP to PP... It's more the discussion of parents who assert that their daughters or sons aren't "the mean girls or boys " and then only set up playdates with kids they perceive as or have decided are"nice". Okay. Not only is this reverse labeling and kind of locking their own kid into an expectation of always being 'nice' (a lot of pressure if you ask me) , but typically, the kids who've made the grade as "nice" are the children of their very own parent's friends.

I don't really have any close friends at my child's school, just friendly acquaintances. However, I will definitely only allow my child to have play dates with kids I think are nice - whether or not I am friendly to their moms. To me, that means kids who respect the rules of our house and don't talk back to me or argue when they are here. If a kid does that, I'm not having them back over, no matter who their mom or dad is. There are enough kids that my son gets along with that I don't have to tolerate that nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Cliques start for girls around 2nd grade and the mean girl thing starts by 4th-5th.

-mom of boys who sees it happen over and over.

Yes, for girls. I've lived through the tears.

Mom of 4 girls.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It starts in preschool. Most cliques are really initiated my moms.

Yes social engineering moms are the worst. Worst offenders grew up in DC or their husbands did.

I agree. HOWEVER, sometimes DC make their own plans, and it is hard for the parents to get overly involved. Some parents only get involved in health or safety issues (give or take) in older elementary.

Some parents take offense to this - but it is not meant as a "engineering" situation, just a different way of parenting. I have had kids ask my kid if they want to do XX after school - my kid says no, then the parent comes to me and asks me (knowing that my kid says no) - that kind of engineering is not acceptable (for the parent to get involved, knowing that the other DC said no!). It is not going to help, in any way, and may drive my kid away from your kid (and then the other kid becomes known for their parent going against the original answer - so not fair to your kid). Don't do that to your kid.

Of course you shouldn't force your kid to go on a playdate, but it is your job to teach your child kindness, including playing with a variety of kids, even kids who aren't their best friends or might seem initially "weird" or different from your child.

I asked my kid, who is driven nuts by a kid who drives a lot of kids nuts, to make an effort to include this kid in SOMETHING once a month. I don't want to micro-manage his social life, but I told him sometimes I have to hang out with people I don't prefer and you get through (the meeting, the baby shower, the book club) and make a plan with your best friend THE NEXT day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It starts in preschool. Most cliques are really initiated my moms.

Yes social engineering moms are the worst. Worst offenders grew up in DC or their husbands did.

I agree. HOWEVER, sometimes DC make their own plans, and it is hard for the parents to get overly involved. Some parents only get involved in health or safety issues (give or take) in older elementary.

Some parents take offense to this - but it is not meant as a "engineering" situation, just a different way of parenting. I have had kids ask my kid if they want to do XX after school - my kid says no, then the parent comes to me and asks me (knowing that my kid says no) - that kind of engineering is not acceptable (for the parent to get involved, knowing that the other DC said no!). It is not going to help, in any way, and may drive my kid away from your kid (and then the other kid becomes known for their parent going against the original answer - so not fair to your kid). Don't do that to your kid.

Of course you shouldn't force your kid to go on a playdate, but it is your job to teach your child kindness, including playing with a variety of kids, even kids who aren't their best friends or might seem initially "weird" or different from your child.

Totally agree PP . I think I've seen almost the opposite PP to PP... It's more the discussion of parents who assert that their daughters or sons aren't "the mean girls or boys " and then only set up playdates with kids they perceive as or have decided are"nice". Okay. Not only is this reverse labeling and kind of locking their own kid into an expectation of always being 'nice' (a lot of pressure if you ask me) , but typically, the kids who've made the grade as "nice" are the children of their very own parent's friends. So who is to say which beget which, but it becomes its own kind of engineering and also demonstrates a bit of a lack of awareness. It's complicated, but more than anything I think that people are asking here that kids not be pre- or permanently judged, and that parents look for some little ways to model or support friendship mixes and inclusivity. How do we ask kids to go up and "talk to someone new" when we won't do it ourselves? Yes, we might be shy or reluctant or set in our ways, but so are kids. Why would we assume it's any easier or comes naturally for them, or that they are regularly just nice or just mean. So let's try harder ourselves and be understanding and supportive of them and look for opportunities to bud new connections big or small.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It starts in preschool. Most cliques are really initiated my moms.

Yes social engineering moms are the worst. Worst offenders grew up in DC or their husbands did.

I agree. HOWEVER, sometimes DC make their own plans, and it is hard for the parents to get overly involved. Some parents only get involved in health or safety issues (give or take) in older elementary.

Some parents take offense to this - but it is not meant as a "engineering" situation, just a different way of parenting. I have had kids ask my kid if they want to do XX after school - my kid says no, then the parent comes to me and asks me (knowing that my kid says no) - that kind of engineering is not acceptable (for the parent to get involved, knowing that the other DC said no!). It is not going to help, in any way, and may drive my kid away from your kid (and then the other kid becomes known for their parent going against the original answer - so not fair to your kid). Don't do that to your kid.

Of course you shouldn't force your kid to go on a playdate, but it is your job to teach your child kindness, including playing with a variety of kids, even kids who aren't their best friends or might seem initially "weird" or different from your child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It starts in preschool. Most cliques are really initiated my moms.

Yes social engineering moms are the worst. Worst offenders grew up in DC or their husbands did.

I agree. HOWEVER, sometimes DC make their own plans, and it is hard for the parents to get overly involved. Some parents only get involved in health or safety issues (give or take) in older elementary.

Some parents take offense to this - but it is not meant as a "engineering" situation, just a different way of parenting. I have had kids ask my kid if they want to do XX after school - my kid says no, then the parent comes to me and asks me (knowing that my kid says no) - that kind of engineering is not acceptable (for the parent to get involved, knowing that the other DC said no!). It is not going to help, in any way, and may drive my kid away from your kid (and then the other kid becomes known for their parent going against the original answer - so not fair to your kid). Don't do that to your kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Cliques start for girls around 2nd grade and the mean girl thing starts by 4th-5th.

-mom of boys who sees it happen over and over.

How about for boys? Wondering the same thing for my shy DS starting 1st.

Boys are much more welcoming than girls in elementary until around fifth grade when the jocks REALLY start to separate.

Boys seem to hang out with anyone who is interested in whatever they are playing at the time. I see that start to change when the more athletic kids start to hit their growth spurts and start looking older. Then they seem to push out the kids who are not athletic or who still look like little kids.

Boys are a lot simpler than girls when it comes to friend groups.

This pretty much sums it up.

Anonymous wrote:It starts in preschool. Most cliques are really initiated my moms.

Yes social engineering moms are the worst. Worst offenders grew up in DC or their husbands did.