Anonymous
Post 08/08/2017 08:03     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That is very 2015 thinking. Psychologist have done much research since.

Marriages are an agreement between 2 adult parties unless it is an arranged marriage or if one is being held hostage.

Affairs are not and agreement between 2 people.

It is not reasonable to blame somebody for their spouses actions and is a kin to saying: "I wouldn't hit her if she wasn't such a B*tch" or "I drink because he is such a jerk".

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If the marriage sucks end it. But... but... but... I don't want to, plain and simple. For the kids, for the money, for selfishness. It's a choice to stay married. It's a breach of an agreement to have an affair.


Please site work, thx.

Also, Einstein, I think she and others are suggesting that there's a primary breach before the affair happens.


Hey Einstein, the idea that a spouse needs to be perfect not to be cheated on is soooo 2015. She is a talking head not a researcher. Do you own Pubmed search. I have posted the research on this site 100 times.

"primary breach"... OMFG, grow up.
Anonymous
Post 08/08/2017 06:25     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Husbands love your wives.

Wives honor and obey your husbands.

Women want love. Men want respect. If this dynamic isn't met then there will be trauma.
Anonymous
Post 08/08/2017 06:13     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Women are smarter than their cheating husbands give them credit for. Some see the signs and ignore them for the kids' sake. Others may not know what the signs mean, but their emotional IQ tells them something is off. In both cases, they can just play the long game. We outlive y'all, sometimes by decades.
Anonymous
Post 08/08/2017 05:35     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:I doubt people cheated on are really "blissfully unaware" that their spouse cheated. Unaware, but puzzled and being gas lit is more likely. Cheating takes effort and requires evasions and lies to cover up. A friend's dad pretended to sponsor a child in a developing country to cover up his assignations at a no tell motel. My dad had "business lunches" at a hotel. My ex-husband was on the phone in his study for hours because he was doing consulting work for the other woman. These lies accounted for time and money, but not the emotional distance or other intangibles.


I totally disagree. While this is admittedly thinly sourced, it says the vast majority of affairs are never discovered and the wealthy are more likely to cheat.

http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/9-fascinating-facts-about-infidelity

I would bet most women here who claim to have a happy, pure marriage have been cheated on at some point. Not it the years long love affair, but in the business trip, bachelor party, massage parlor, short term thing. Men compartmentalize these things. Unless you are a man, and really see how men act, talk, behave, on occasion (not all the time) when their wives aren't around, you really don't know.

I know many, many men who have had indiscretions, and none of them involved months long no tell motel stuff. Most men are far smarter than that.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 22:19     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
I doubt people cheated on are really "blissfully unaware" that their spouse cheated. Unaware, but puzzled and being gas lit is more likely. Cheating takes effort and requires evasions and lies to cover up. A friend's dad pretended to sponsor a child in a developing country to cover up his assignations at a no tell motel. My dad had "business lunches" at a hotel. My ex-husband was on the phone in his study for hours because he was doing consulting work for the other woman. These lies accounted for time and money, but not the emotional distance or other intangibles.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 22:17     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
That said, Perel makes it very clear that once there is cheating, the marriage is over. Only if both parties want to try and build a new marriage can the work of creating a new marriage concept/contract/story be possible.


I don't agree. There are lots of marriages where there is/was cheating, and one spouse has no idea, and their marriage continues happily ever after and blissfully unaware.

Sometimes, cheating is a result of some grand marital conflict. Often, especially with men, it's just a primal need and can have no great significance.


I bet it would have significance for the cheated-on wife.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 22:07     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
That said, Perel makes it very clear that once there is cheating, the marriage is over. Only if both parties want to try and build a new marriage can the work of creating a new marriage concept/contract/story be possible.


I don't agree. There are lots of marriages where there is/was cheating, and one spouse has no idea, and their marriage continues happily ever after and blissfully unaware.

Sometimes, cheating is a result of some grand marital conflict. Often, especially with men, it's just a primal need and can have no great significance.


But those couples are living a lie. The cheated on person may be blissfully unaware, but the cheater is committing an egregious sin by not revealing their infidelity and giving the other party the option to stay or leave. They are sentencing their spouse to a lifetime of living a lie when they could find love and happiness with someone else who wouldn't cheat on them. In a misguided effort to not hurt a spouse, it's a really cruel thing to not fess up.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 21:40     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
That said, Perel makes it very clear that once there is cheating, the marriage is over. Only if both parties want to try and build a new marriage can the work of creating a new marriage concept/contract/story be possible.


I don't agree. There are lots of marriages where there is/was cheating, and one spouse has no idea, and their marriage continues happily ever after and blissfully unaware.

Sometimes, cheating is a result of some grand marital conflict. Often, especially with men, it's just a primal need and can have no great significance.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 21:24     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Well, that wasn't my experience.

Some people are good at rewriting history and making themselves out to be victims. My exwife played everyone the same sad song about me never being home, turning her down for sex when I was home, and being emotionally unavailable. What she left out was that my mother had a heart attack during surgery and slipped into a coma. I practically lived at the hospital for a month. After enduring so much neglect during that month, she had no choice but to move on.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 21:17     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:I was in professional school but still tried to have a good relationship with my spouse. We had sex 3-4 times a week. I was the same weight as the day we got married. He said i wasn't paying him enough attention b.c I was studying for my boards. And that "made him a better person, but I'm tired of being a good person."

Not. My. Fing. Fault.


Absolutely, not your fault.

He was immature and selfish. Glad you got out before having a kid. That triggers the same type of whining and jealousy.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 18:55     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
I was in professional school but still tried to have a good relationship with my spouse. We had sex 3-4 times a week. I was the same weight as the day we got married. He said i wasn't paying him enough attention b.c I was studying for my boards. And that "made him a better person, but I'm tired of being a good person."

Not. My. Fing. Fault.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 18:46     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.


I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.


To me the idea that you need to get sexual needs met so badly that you go outside the marriage is absurd. That one would put children, their schooling, your family, your finances, your home, etc. etc. all at risk for some tail is just.... monstrous.


Um, did you not just read 2 pages of posts saying to just get divorced? How is divorce less "at risk" to the children, their schooling, family, finances, etc?
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 18:44     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Yes, this can be true. But it doesn't excuse any behavior or make either party innocent. It just means both parties were guilty of contributing to the demise of their marriage, which is true in 90% of divorces anyways.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 18:00     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:That is very 2015 thinking. Psychologist have done much research since.

Marriages are an agreement between 2 adult parties unless it is an arranged marriage or if one is being held hostage.

Affairs are not and agreement between 2 people.

It is not reasonable to blame somebody for their spouses actions and is a kin to saying: "I wouldn't hit her if she wasn't such a B*tch" or "I drink because he is such a jerk".

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If the marriage sucks end it. But... but... but... I don't want to, plain and simple. For the kids, for the money, for selfishness. It's a choice to stay married. It's a breach of an agreement to have an affair.


Please site work, thx.

Also, Einstein, I think she and others are suggesting that there's a primary breach before the affair happens.
Anonymous
Post 08/07/2017 15:05     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"

Anonymous wrote:
Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.



I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.



To me the idea that you need to get sexual needs met so badly that you go outside the marriage is absurd. That one would put children, their schooling, your family, your finances, your home, etc. etc. all at risk for some tail is just.... monstrous.


Most adults are able to control their "needs" or find a way to communicate effectively to have their "needs" met. If children, school districts, families, health insurance, economic issues, 401Ks are all more important to you than your "needs," then you must realize it isn't really a "need" that can't be controlled and is more of a want. And if you want something that is destructive to your life and that of your loved ones, that makes you an ASSHOLE.