Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Pp, do you not realize Alexandria City does indeed have this? If the local Alexandria City private schools as well as DC private schools didn't exist as a conduit away from ACPS (St Stevens St Agnes and Bishop Breton as well as DC privates), all these potential students would attend ACPS.

ACPS would benefit greatly with these now attending private students! In fact, that is part of ACPS's problem!

Sadly, it's not true ACPS doesn't reflect housing costs in different areas of the City. It would be great if the City and ACPS actually got real with just your point. It's been decades with nothing done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Thanks PP, and fully agreed that one consolidated TC benefits everyone. If an expansion were necessary (which it's not - TC has more square footage per student than most schools in the area), a 9/10 - 11/12 structure would certainly be the way to go. While the school board has expressly and repeatedly rejected that, it's clear that Council is no longer as inclined to completely defer to school board as it used to, and contacting Council as well as the task force would probably be beneficial.

Let's talk about this highlighted statement. All I have ever heard by the active and past ACPS School Board and now City Council directly disagrees with this bolded statement. TC Williams High School, built by 2007 and advertised as one of the most expensive of high schools in the nation ever ($110M to $130M) does NOT allow building up vertically in 2017 or ever, based on its original architectural short-sighted design. Amazing yes, tax paying Alexandrians? Given the crowding of the High School and future projections, I do not know what you mean by "has more square footage per student than most in the area" as TC Williams is already at capacity. Maybe it does, but sadly (or fiscally not prudently for taxpayers) TW Williams can't be built up further in the present nor in the future.

Not the case. The gym could be placed in a stand-alone structure and the gym space in the school could be converted into at least fourteen classrooms (the design allowed for this). That's if it were really necessary. TC Williams has roughly 20% more square feet per student than the average Fairfax high school. . At present, during any one class period, more than one in every seven classrooms sits empty. The only time there is real crowding is class-change passing periods. Lengthening them by three minutes each solves that completely. If TC were insufficiently large by objective measures, the school board could have released valid, verifiable statistics showing actual school by school - they haven't and they won't. They are wedded to a split of TC, which is what their documents promise.

If TC were insufficiently large by objective measures, the school board could have released valid, verifiable statistics showing actual school by school - they haven't and they won't. They are wedded to a split of TC, which is what their documents promise

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Thanks PP, and fully agreed that one consolidated TC benefits everyone. If an expansion were necessary (which it's not - TC has more square footage per student than most schools in the area), a 9/10 - 11/12 structure would certainly be the way to go. While the school board has expressly and repeatedly rejected that, it's clear that Council is no longer as inclined to completely defer to school board as it used to, and contacting Council as well as the task force would probably be beneficial.

Let's talk about this highlighted statement. All I have ever heard by the active and past ACPS School Board and now City Council directly disagrees with this bolded statement. TC Williams High School, built by 2007 and advertised as one of the most expensive of high schools in the nation ever ($110M to $130M) does NOT allow building up vertically in 2017 or ever, based on its original architectural short-sighted design. Amazing yes, tax paying Alexandrians? Given the crowding of the High School and future projections, I do not know what you mean by "has more square footage per student than most in the area" as TC Williams is already at capacity. Maybe it does, but sadly (or fiscally not prudently for taxpayers) TW Williams can't be built up further in the present nor in the future.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Thanks PP, and fully agreed that one consolidated TC benefits everyone. If an expansion were necessary (which it's not - TC has more square footage per student than most schools in the area), a 9/10 - 11/12 structure would certainly be the way to go. While the school board has expressly and repeatedly rejected that, it's clear that Council is no longer as inclined to completely defer to school board as it used to, and contacting Council as well as the task force would probably be beneficial.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Is there already a campaign going to make this happen? I want to join.

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Anonymous wrote:I think the single public high school in the City of Alexandria is a really unique benefit to all of the students -- unlike other municipalities in the region, we don't have the housing costs in different areas driving socio-economic segregation in the high school, and that benefits everyone. So to the degree there is still time to influence any decision, I plan to advocate with my elected representatives that Minnie Howard be rebuilt to be 9/10 (rather than just grade 9, as it is now) and the current King Street campus -- walking distance from Minnie Howard -- be used for 11/12. I've found that it's fairly easy to have an influence on these processes in the City so long as you're paying attention. Everything gets posted on the website, including meeting agendas and dates and times for the schools capital planning task force currently underway, and most meetings are open to the public.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the reference to a college office, here is the quote

. Spaces such as the writing center, math center,
tech support, help desk, teen wellness and college and career center should be located in a designated and
accessible space.

This is general guidance for the architects about having space for centers like this, NOT a commitment to a college center in each HS building. This is a good example of how you are stretching items in this document.

That interpretation would require ignoring the other multiple provisions, and would also require disregarding the fact that the unanimous, repeated, explicit 9-12 declaration is the only plan presented to the School Board, discussed by them, adopted, or even mentioned in the entire document set.

We seem to be going in circles. Everything you claim that points to a 9-12 school being already decided on, seems to me like a stretch. You then support your interpretation by mentioning other points.

So the primary quotes, including "high schools that serve students in grades nine through 12 at a comprehensive campus" as the sole goal, don't mean what they say?

it says "desires to provide". That is not a specification, it is background. It does not mean that in the event of constraints - which IMO could include cost, availability of RE, and even issues with equitably zoning two distinct high schools, they might not give up on that desire.

Do you think that, in principle, apart from the above considerations they should desire to seperate 9-10 from 11-12? Do any other school systems around here do that?

1. That's one of several aligned quotes.
2. There is --NO-- other option even being considered.
3. Alexandria used to be 9/10 and 11/12.
4. Other divisions don't have the same number of high schoolers in concentrated geography that all want to mix-and-match programs and have access to the city. Why shouldn't they?

1. Each and every reading of the other quotes by you is tortured. Again, we are going in circles
2. Again, this is not a discussion of options. Its specs, to guide an architect. 99% of what is in the document would apply equally to a 9-10 and 11-12 school. Its just these few quotes, which aren't really very interesting to an architect. Again, if they choose to go with a split by grade instead of geography for whatever reason, this document would not at all prevent that.
3. Yes, and it might remain that way. Or not.
4. Do we know how many want "mix and match" programs? Is it harder to get from one part of say, Arlington, to another than from one part of Alexandria to another?

Actually, they're not at all limited to or oriented around guiding an architect. They literally direct a TC split into 9-12 schools (consistent with the TC reorganization that was just announced as the lead-up). The mandatory, unanimous educational specifications are explicitly "for all project stakeholders: students, parents, and families; faculty and administrators; civic leaders and community members; and project design and construction partners." And rather than "guide" the architects, they do the reverse, delivering no instructions at all to the architects: "leaving ample flexibility for creativity and options in design by the architects". And the idea that Alexandria's high school organization "might remain that way. Or not" provides no basis to upend a high school organization that works now, and is upsetting only to several activists on the school board and a tiny handful of residents that would like to exclude the West End's children from full access to all ACPS high school resources. The extent to which Alexandria is mis-served by the school board is truly shocking, and on that nearly everyone agrees.

It guides everyone, in planning for the physical layout. That is what all the material is about. And yes, it gives flexibility, you tell archs the specs you need, and then let them creatively put it together. That is how these kinds of processes work.

No, it does not literally direct a split, because this is a spec for facility plans, NOT directive about organization.

And the current organization may work now, but does not provide capacity for a growing HS population. And something like the current org would still work as numbers increase, and with an enlarged 9-10 campus replacing Minnie Howard, is an open question.

Also of course, if we DID have two high schools, it is odd to call that "excluding West End children for all ACPS hs resources" as east end children would also not have access to the West End school (assuming the split would be that simple)

As for everyone agreeing, then its odd that the current members of the school bd won election. Clearly not everyone agrees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the reference to a college office, here is the quote

. Spaces such as the writing center, math center,
tech support, help desk, teen wellness and college and career center should be located in a designated and
accessible space.

This is general guidance for the architects about having space for centers like this, NOT a commitment to a college center in each HS building. This is a good example of how you are stretching items in this document.

That interpretation would require ignoring the other multiple provisions, and would also require disregarding the fact that the unanimous, repeated, explicit 9-12 declaration is the only plan presented to the School Board, discussed by them, adopted, or even mentioned in the entire document set.

We seem to be going in circles. Everything you claim that points to a 9-12 school being already decided on, seems to me like a stretch. You then support your interpretation by mentioning other points.

So the primary quotes, including "high schools that serve students in grades nine through 12 at a comprehensive campus" as the sole goal, don't mean what they say?

it says "desires to provide". That is not a specification, it is background. It does not mean that in the event of constraints - which IMO could include cost, availability of RE, and even issues with equitably zoning two distinct high schools, they might not give up on that desire.

Do you think that, in principle, apart from the above considerations they should desire to seperate 9-10 from 11-12? Do any other school systems around here do that?

1. That's one of several aligned quotes.
2. There is --NO-- other option even being considered.
3. Alexandria used to be 9/10 and 11/12.
4. Other divisions don't have the same number of high schoolers in concentrated geography that all want to mix-and-match programs and have access to the city. Why shouldn't they?

1. Each and every reading of the other quotes by you is tortured. Again, we are going in circles
2. Again, this is not a discussion of options. Its specs, to guide an architect. 99% of what is in the document would apply equally to a 9-10 and 11-12 school. Its just these few quotes, which aren't really very interesting to an architect. Again, if they choose to go with a split by grade instead of geography for whatever reason, this document would not at all prevent that.
3. Yes, and it might remain that way. Or not.
4. Do we know how many want "mix and match" programs? Is it harder to get from one part of say, Arlington, to another than from one part of Alexandria to another?

Actually, they're not at all limited to or oriented around guiding an architect. They literally direct a TC split into 9-12 schools (consistent with the TC reorganization that was just announced as the lead-up). The mandatory, unanimous educational specifications are explicitly "for all project stakeholders: students, parents, and families; faculty and administrators; civic leaders and community members; and project design and construction partners." And rather than "guide" the architects, they do the reverse, delivering no instructions at all to the architects: "leaving ample flexibility for creativity and options in design by the architects". And the idea that Alexandria's high school organization "might remain that way. Or not" provides no basis to upend a high school organization that works now, and is upsetting only to several activists on the school board and a tiny handful of residents that would like to exclude the West End's children from full access to all ACPS high school resources. The extent to which Alexandria is mis-served by the school board is truly shocking, and on that nearly everyone agrees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the reference to a college office, here is the quote

. Spaces such as the writing center, math center,
tech support, help desk, teen wellness and college and career center should be located in a designated and
accessible space.

This is general guidance for the architects about having space for centers like this, NOT a commitment to a college center in each HS building. This is a good example of how you are stretching items in this document.

That interpretation would require ignoring the other multiple provisions, and would also require disregarding the fact that the unanimous, repeated, explicit 9-12 declaration is the only plan presented to the School Board, discussed by them, adopted, or even mentioned in the entire document set.

We seem to be going in circles. Everything you claim that points to a 9-12 school being already decided on, seems to me like a stretch. You then support your interpretation by mentioning other points.

So the primary quotes, including "high schools that serve students in grades nine through 12 at a comprehensive campus" as the sole goal, don't mean what they say?

it says "desires to provide". That is not a specification, it is background. It does not mean that in the event of constraints - which IMO could include cost, availability of RE, and even issues with equitably zoning two distinct high schools, they might not give up on that desire.

Do you think that, in principle, apart from the above considerations they should desire to seperate 9-10 from 11-12? Do any other school systems around here do that?

1. That's one of several aligned quotes.
2. There is --NO-- other option even being considered.
3. Alexandria used to be 9/10 and 11/12.
4. Other divisions don't have the same number of high schoolers in concentrated geography that all want to mix-and-match programs and have access to the city. Why shouldn't they?

1. Each and every reading of the other quotes by you is tortured. Again, we are going in circles
2. Again, this is not a discussion of options. Its specs, to guide an architect. 99% of what is in the document would apply equally to a 9-10 and 11-12 school. Its just these few quotes, which aren't really very interesting to an architect. Again, if they choose to go with a split by grade instead of geography for whatever reason, this document would not at all prevent that.
3. Yes, and it might remain that way. Or not.
4. Do we know how many want "mix and match" programs? Is it harder to get from one part of say, Arlington, to another than from one part of Alexandria to another?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the reference to a college office, here is the quote

. Spaces such as the writing center, math center,
tech support, help desk, teen wellness and college and career center should be located in a designated and
accessible space.

This is general guidance for the architects about having space for centers like this, NOT a commitment to a college center in each HS building. This is a good example of how you are stretching items in this document.

That interpretation would require ignoring the other multiple provisions, and would also require disregarding the fact that the unanimous, repeated, explicit 9-12 declaration is the only plan presented to the School Board, discussed by them, adopted, or even mentioned in the entire document set.

We seem to be going in circles. Everything you claim that points to a 9-12 school being already decided on, seems to me like a stretch. You then support your interpretation by mentioning other points.

So the primary quotes, including "high schools that serve students in grades nine through 12 at a comprehensive campus" as the sole goal, don't mean what they say?

it says "desires to provide". That is not a specification, it is background. It does not mean that in the event of constraints - which IMO could include cost, availability of RE, and even issues with equitably zoning two distinct high schools, they might not give up on that desire.

Do you think that, in principle, apart from the above considerations they should desire to seperate 9-10 from 11-12? Do any other school systems around here do that?

1. That's one of several aligned quotes.
2. There is --NO-- other option even being considered.
3. Alexandria used to be 9/10 and 11/12.
4. Other divisions don't have the same number of high schoolers in concentrated geography that all want to mix-and-match programs and have access to the city. Why shouldn't they?