What if a child is only oppositional around other adults - not parents? PP, you seem to have issues with your own parents. Don't project your family's problems onto everyone else.
I agree with those who've said it's control and anxiety based. When kids know they're loved and supported at home no matter what, their behavior is better at home. At school, where the teacher and classmates are virtual strangers, they have no assurance that they are a valued member of the community and have to work hard to fit in. That causes anxiety, ergo ODD.

ARGH. Different environments pose different challenges. In some situations or environments, the kid's lagging skills (in emotion regulation, in negotiating transitions, in shifting cognitive frameworks, etc.) become more apparent than in others. That's why "opposition" can present in some situations and not in others.

FWIW, the DSM5 discussion of ODD rates the severity of the disorder in relation to HOW MANY different environments it presents: "mild" ODD is confiened to one setting, while "severe" ODD presents in multiple settings--ie, pervasively.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when autism was caused by Refrigerator Moms? And then there was the schizophrenogenic mother

totally different. ODD is inherently defined by relationships to other people, and many supposedly ODD kids are fine in settings away from family or as adults when they mature (or get away from family). Autism and schizophrenia are pervasive, objective disorders that are not subjectively related to other people.

There are many kids with behavioral issues who keep it together at school or in other venues and fall apart at home. That doesn't mean whatever causes the behavior is not pervasive (such as ODD).

Obviously, if you are able to comply with directions in one setting (school, work, adult life away from your parents) you do not have a global disorder that means you are by nature oppositional. You are oppositional to ONE relationship -- your parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when autism was caused by Refrigerator Moms? And then there was the schizophrenogenic mother

totally different. ODD is inherently defined by relationships to other people, and many supposedly ODD kids are fine in settings away from family or as adults when they mature (or get away from family). Autism and schizophrenia are pervasive, objective disorders that are not subjectively related to other people.

There are many kids with behavioral issues who keep it together at school or in other venues and fall apart at home. That doesn't mean whatever causes the behavior is not pervasive (such as ODD).

No, you're schizophrenic or autistic in any setting, although you may have supports and function better in specific settings that accommodate you. ODD is literally defined by a child's relationship to his parents. It's extremely subjective and literally DEFINED by relationships to other people. It's nothing at all like schizophrenia and autism which, while they may have environmental components, are not dependent on your relationships to other people, and would exist if there were no other people in the world.

My question is not how many of the posters here went to med school, but how many of us actually fit the criterion raised in the question: parents who are raising a teen with an ODD diagnosis?

I am. My teen has depression, anxiety, and ODD, ADHD and learning disabilities. I am by no means a perfect parent, but I am a competent, caring one who took parenting classes and implemented reasonable limits and boundaries. You know what? That wasn't enough. The oppositional behaviors continued--in my teen's case, much more at school than at home. YMMV, but in my case, what was most helpful was to get a handle on the reasons for the behavior--especially the strong connection between anxiety and the desire to control. A family systems approach enabled us to see that what my teen needs is ongoing training and support around learning to trust adults. That's not exactly what's taught in most parenting classes, btw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when autism was caused by Refrigerator Moms? And then there was the schizophrenogenic mother

totally different. ODD is inherently defined by relationships to other people, and many supposedly ODD kids are fine in settings away from family or as adults when they mature (or get away from family). Autism and schizophrenia are pervasive, objective disorders that are not subjectively related to other people.

There are many kids with behavioral issues who keep it together at school or in other venues and fall apart at home. That doesn't mean whatever causes the behavior is not pervasive (such as ODD).

Anonymous wrote:I am a PP who recommended family therapy. Since there is so much parent-blaming going on here, I want to clarify what I meant by that. What the parent-blamers here need to understand is that kids with ODD (which is a label for a collection of symptoms, not really a dx) are high degree of difficulty kids, whose lagging skills (especially around emotion regulation) make achieving "consistency" in parenting highly challenging, even for the most level-headed parents. For that reason, an therapeutic approach that is geared toward developing skills for the whole family is the one I'd recommend.

And one more thing: there are many brain-based conditions (anxiety, depression, trauma) that drive with oppositional behavior. Personally, I think ODD is a useless label--one that in practice prevents people from investigating what is being communicated through the oppositional behavior.

I agree with what you wrote, but based on my personal experience, a good therapist would have to consider what behavior in the parent is eliciting opposition or being experienced as intolerable opposition. The parents' own contribution cannot be ignored.

Anonymous wrote:Remember when autism was caused by Refrigerator Moms? And then there was the schizophrenogenic mother

totally different. ODD is inherently defined by relationships to other people, and many supposedly ODD kids are fine in settings away from family or as adults when they mature (or get away from family). Autism and schizophrenia are pervasive, objective disorders that are not subjectively related to other people.

Remember when autism was caused by Refrigerator Moms? And then there was the schizophrenogenic mother

Where did you experts on ODD go to med school? Here is a helpful link. You're welcome.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/oppositional-defiant-disorder#1

I am a PP who recommended family therapy. Since there is so much parent-blaming going on here, I want to clarify what I meant by that. What the parent-blamers here need to understand is that kids with ODD (which is a label for a collection of symptoms, not really a dx) are high degree of difficulty kids, whose lagging skills (especially around emotion regulation) make achieving "consistency" in parenting highly challenging, even for the most level-headed parents. For that reason, an therapeutic approach that is geared toward developing skills for the whole family is the one I'd recommend.

And one more thing: there are many brain-based conditions (anxiety, depression, trauma) that drive with oppositional behavior. Personally, I think ODD is a useless label--one that in practice prevents people from investigating what is being communicated through the oppositional behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs who think ODD is the result of bad parenting have no clue what they're talking about. I bet they think these kids just need a good spanking. Morons.

No, but the parents clearly need parenting classes. The ODD did not rise up in a vacuum. It represents a culmination of conditions that facilitated its development and one MAJOR condition is inconsistent parenting and poor disciplining.

In furtherance of consideration of poor choices, note the context of this discussion. OP has received a diagnosis of ODD for the child. Instead of pursuing discussions with the diagnostician or trained and licensed therapists, OP has turned to this anonymous forum and is asking for help. Hhhhmm. Interesting approach. And OP wonders how it all got this way. Gee, good question.

As someone who DOES work with high risk kids who have received diagnoses of ODD my recommendation is to immediately begin working with licensed therapists, individual and family, and then to do what those therapists suggest during sessions.

I'd be willing to bet that you are a "therapist" looking to help these families empty their wallets by offering them parenting classes. ODD can be exacerbated by bad parenting, of course, but it is absolutely NOT caused by it. It's genetic. Some kids get it and some don't within the same family.

I don't know how to say this other than very bluntly. You are wrong. ODD is not genetic and to say it is really demonstrates that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

+100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are fools and let these doctors tell you anything...

I have always wondered about this "condition." One of the factors related to cause is environment. I bet this is often "overlooked" by many parents.

Environmental: Factors such as a dysfunctional family life, a family history of mental illnesses and/or substance abuse, and inconsistent discipline by parents may contribute to the development of behavior disorders.

Poor parenting has always been blamed for many brain based illnesses when in is very likely that parents fall into inconsistent discipline and dysfunctional family life because their child is very difficult to manage.

You could pick the difficult child up and plop him into a family with so called excellent parenting skills, and suddenly those parents would be exhausted and show signs of dysfunctional parenting, in fact.

Now personally I'm a follower of the Collaborative Problem Solving Approach -- kids with challenging behavior will do well when they CAN do well, not when they are MOTIVATED to do well. Kids with challenging behavior have lagging skills in things like flexibility, ability to anticipate consequences, emotional self regulation etc. I think if you apply the principals of CPS with these challenging kids you can help them develop and improve them, and avoid a diagnosis of ODD in many cases.

Baloney. ODD definitely is NOT a "brain based illness" (whatever that idiocy means) because it is not biologic in nature. Where did you come up with that hooey? And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

The professional consensus is that ODD describes a constellation of behaviors caused by an underlying condition. ODD doesn't exist in a vacuum.

I've seen this play out in my own family. My parents were not good parents, but only 1 child (my stepbrother) got tagged with the ODD label. (Dx was ADHD but I have no doubt they would have gotten an ODD diagnosis had it been more popular then, in the 90s). This child was definitely "different" from the other kids in that he was more aggressive, more outgoing, more kinetic, more anxious, and was CONSTANTLY provoking his sister. Instead of parenting him appropriately and getting him therapy, my parents decided that he was mentally ill and made him take meds and talked about what a bad kid he was. Turns out, he was actually a highly intelligent person who is now doing very, very well in life (outside of our parents' toxic influence.) So, combination of legitimately difficult kid, with legitimately bad parenting = ODD in this case.

It's possible that ODD exists as a freestanding condition apart from family dysfunction and parenting. But considering that parenting and behavior interact so closely (and many parents, like mine, chose to displace all their family anxiety on a scapegoat) I am always going to look to the parents first when they claim a child has ODD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs who think ODD is the result of bad parenting have no clue what they're talking about. I bet they think these kids just need a good spanking. Morons.

No, but the parents clearly need parenting classes. The ODD did not rise up in a vacuum. It represents a culmination of conditions that facilitated its development and one MAJOR condition is inconsistent parenting and poor disciplining.

In furtherance of consideration of poor choices, note the context of this discussion. OP has received a diagnosis of ODD for the child. Instead of pursuing discussions with the diagnostician or trained and licensed therapists, OP has turned to this anonymous forum and is asking for help. Hhhhmm. Interesting approach. And OP wonders how it all got this way. Gee, good question.

As someone who DOES work with high risk kids who have received diagnoses of ODD my recommendation is to immediately begin working with licensed therapists, individual and family, and then to do what those therapists suggest during sessions.

Not OP, but I have a 14 yo SN dd. I have frequently gotten much better advice here on the SN board than from professionals. Over the last 14 years, professionals have given us great advice, and terrible advice, and advice designed just to pad their pockets. "Go to a professional" is useless advice. Why not post some actual local therapists who specialize in best practices for ODD treatment, since you are so knowledgable on the subject?

As a parent who is currently struggling with a tween who has major behavioral problems, I can tell you that some of the "inconsistency" comes from trying different therapists, parenting classes, and whatever else I can think of or afford. Guess what? These professionals don't all have the same advice or suggest the same strategies. So after years of struggling, yes, the kid has been exposed to countless and often inconsistent strategies and parenting techniques. But that comes from seeking professional advice, not from avoiding it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs who think ODD is the result of bad parenting have no clue what they're talking about. I bet they think these kids just need a good spanking. Morons.

No, but the parents clearly need parenting classes. The ODD did not rise up in a vacuum. It represents a culmination of conditions that facilitated its development and one MAJOR condition is inconsistent parenting and poor disciplining.

In furtherance of consideration of poor choices, note the context of this discussion. OP has received a diagnosis of ODD for the child. Instead of pursuing discussions with the diagnostician or trained and licensed therapists, OP has turned to this anonymous forum and is asking for help. Hhhhmm. Interesting approach. And OP wonders how it all got this way. Gee, good question.

As someone who DOES work with high risk kids who have received diagnoses of ODD my recommendation is to immediately begin working with licensed therapists, individual and family, and then to do what those therapists suggest during sessions.

Not OP, but I have a 14 yo SN dd. I have frequently gotten much better advice here on the SN board than from professionals. Over the last 14 years, professionals have given us great advice, and terrible advice, and advice designed just to pad their pockets. "Go to a professional" is useless advice. Why not post some actual local therapists who specialize in best practices for ODD treatment, since you are so knowledgable on the subject?