Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have a pre nup in place. For us it was no big deal - he owns a small business with partners that needed to be protected from divorce and we both have not huge, but not insignificant inheritances possibly coming our way that we felt shouldn't be community property.

It's not romantic, but you're planning for the worst case scenario and the unpredictable disasters. What if you develop a drug addiction after a car accident injury and he thinks you're a danger to yourself and your children,, should he give you half his inheritance? What if he has an affair and contracts and STD and you still earn more than him, should you pay him palimony? Assuming a normal stable marriage, none of the pre nup stuff comes into play.

The bigger issue is your and your fiancé's inability to discuss this calmly and rationally and without his families involvement. Any BS in there about how to raise your kids is ridiculous, but a good lawyer should be able to guide you to a reasonable outcome.

Inheritances are NEVER community property. Did you pay someone to say this? Why? I don't get it.

They are in some states, like Connecticut.

OP here - I told my fiancé that child rearing demands are unacceptable and he agrees and he already told his parents. I listened to the conversation and he made it clear to them it was off the table. I'm meeting with a lawyer today to better understand the financial stuff. If inheritances and trusts are already protected from a divorce then a prenup might add little except make his parents feel better. Regardless, they are not doing their best to make me feel welcome. If I can't get comfortable with it my fiancé said he has no problem with me not signing it.

I signed a simple one that says if we divorce within the first 5 years we keep whatever money and assets we brought into the marriage, and anything earned during we split. It expires on our 5th anniversary.

Anything that dictates how you raise your kids is totally unacceptable.

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have a pre nup in place. For us it was no big deal - he owns a small business with partners that needed to be protected from divorce and we both have not huge, but not insignificant inheritances possibly coming our way that we felt shouldn't be community property.

It's not romantic, but you're planning for the worst case scenario and the unpredictable disasters. What if you develop a drug addiction after a car accident injury and he thinks you're a danger to yourself and your children,, should he give you half his inheritance? What if he has an affair and contracts and STD and you still earn more than him, should you pay him palimony? Assuming a normal stable marriage, none of the pre nup stuff comes into play.

The bigger issue is your and your fiancé's inability to discuss this calmly and rationally and without his families involvement. Any BS in there about how to raise your kids is ridiculous, but a good lawyer should be able to guide you to a reasonable outcome.

Inheritances are NEVER community property. Did you pay someone to say this? Why? I don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:The biggest red flag for me is how tied he is to his parents. You do not want in-laws that involved.
The second red flag was that he got angry that you wanted to consult a lawyer. Why is it ok for him to have a lawyer and not you?

My advice would be to do some pre-marital counseling together before signing anything or setting a wedding date.

This. You guys need to make your own life decisions, not be dictated by his parents.

I think it was awfully sleazy the way his family just sprung this on you.

That is a telling thing.

It shows that he will never stand up for you when it comes to his family plus damn right he ought to pay your lawyer's fees since he totally totally sprung this on you with zero notice.

PP here. I'll just add that I think that prenups (if fair and reviewed by a lawyer) are fine. But the other stuff (below) is completely bananas.

Anonymous wrote:I think that the actual prenup is like third or fourth on the list of issues.

1. That you heard this from their lawyer and not from your fiance.

2. That it included threats "ramifications" about divorce.

3. That they feel empowered to make demands about childrearing.

4. That your fiance is oblivious to the fact that #1-#3 are a problem.

do NOT marry into this family. They will be in your sh*t constantly and your fiance will not stand up to them or even understand that should. Get Ouuuuuuuuut!

I think that the actual prenup is like third or fourth on the list of issues.

1. That you heard this from their lawyer and not from your fiance.

2. That it included threats "ramifications" about divorce.

3. That they feel empowered to make demands about childrearing.

4. That your fiance is oblivious to the fact that #1-#3 are a problem.

do NOT marry into this family. They will be in your sh*t constantly and your fiance will not stand up to them or even understand that should. Get Ouuuuuuuuut!

Anonymous wrote:It's not legally ethical for a lawyer to give you advice when they are being paid by the other side. Think about it.

It's also not legally ethical for their lawyer to send you the prenup without recommending that you get your own legal opinion. Prenups can work as much for you as it will for him you know

think of the legal fee as just another wedding cost. Dress, flowers, lawyer, photographer.

Are you guys giving this advice lawyers? I can think of any number of instances where someone can pay for your lawyer. Happens all the time in corporate investigations. As long as the client is advised of and agrees to arrangement and lawyer exercises independent judgment there is no issue.

I personally would never sign a prenup, but the child rearing stuff would really make me walk away without having a conversation.

Your fiancee allowed his parents to send you a legal document outlining major decisions that you will make as parents and he did not discuss these things with you in advance. That is a VERY big red flag for the future. He has just proven that

1) He is fine with his parents communicating desires about your children and their rearing directly to you without having to be in the conversation
2) He apparently will agree with them in these scenarios
3) He will be angry with you for questioning 'the family'

Money schmoney, you need to address that, because THAT will be a WAY bigger problem when actual children are in the picture. I cannot comprehend DH's parents instructing me how to raise our children, let alone him letting that happen and in fact becoming mad at me if I push back. These decisions should be between the two of you, mommy and daddy need to back off.

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for the advice. I will get and pay for my own attorney. FYI - my fiancé did let me know the letter was coming but not what was in it. The child rearing issues were mostly faith based in terms of both religion and schooling. The protection of inheritance and trusts is all new to me so I do need to get smarter even with a lawyer involved. While my fiancé is an artist, he is actually quite successful for someone not yet 30. He is definitely not living off of his family's money and is making it on his own just as I am. His parents live in a world of 1%-ers and as my dad said "the air is very thin at that altitude which can cause brain defects." They are generally nice people and live far away so I'm hoping that they don't interfere too often. So, I'm prepared to sign a prenup but only if it's reasonable especially about child rearing.

Op, be prepared for all kinds of meddling. It's just what it is. Even if parents are not supporting him now, he won't go against his parent's preferences, on any matter, hardly ever. They dangle the carrot of future inheritance and the stick of taking that away. Your fiance may even say he doesn't care about his inheritance now when he's young. He will care a whole lot more as he gets older and he deals with what life throws at him and how costly it is to raise kids.

But you know what. Think about it. Imagine you are their parents. Of course they feel entitled and want to protect him. They dont know you or love you like your fiance does. I bet you 100 percent, when your kids get engaged, you will support your kids asking their SO to sign a prenup.

It's just all human nature.

Is he able to earn a living from his artist career or does he have plans for a backup career if this doesn't pan out? If he is always going to depend on his parents financially then they will always be in involved in your business, prenup or not. Are you ready for that?

Anonymous wrote:Yes the middle ground is signing it but hiring your own lawyer to review and negotiate for anything you want.

I signed one/ it's just the smart thing nowadays:

This.

OP, let's separate several issues in the prenup business.

First, his family money. I hope you agree that this wealth has nothing to do with you, and as such, you should be amenable to signing whatever they need to reassure them that you have no claim to it, and won't if things go wrong.

Second, your marital assets. You say your fiance is successful and you make a good living. You need to make sure that a) whatever the TWO OF YOU build together will be half yours in the event of divorce, or b) that your income and assets are completely protected. I am not an attorney but would think that it should be either a) or b).

Third, you should absolutely retain and pay your own attorney who knows how to negotiate these things. In the world of prenups it's all about negotiating.

Fourth, know that prenups govern only things, not people. As such, no prenup can tell you how to raise your children or outline custody arrangements in the event of divorce. I mean, they can write it in but no court will enforce it. BUT, things like religion and schooling can absolutely be on the negotiating block along the lines of, oh, you want children to be raised in the church of whatever? Very good, I want a trust fund for each child for $XXX when they are born. You want them to attend a particular school? Happy to oblige, please pay $XXX to make that happen.

Def go see a lawyer, your own lawyer, don't make him pay for one or choose one. Your prenup lawyer and his prenup lawyers are adversaries.

The childrearing stuff is intensely invasive. I would draw a line in the sand and reject it. Of course that may mean they help less paying for schools.

The other stuff may make sense. The scenario they want to avoid is you divorcing and getting a large share of their wealth; or your spouse dying, you inheriting, and then your second husband and kids getting their family wealth; or you impacting family businesses.