Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of these posts are BS.
-you are not required to call the police if you are in an accident. Unless there are injuries or significant damage, officers generally just aid drivers in exchanging information.

- I'm a police officer, and a lot of times what you perceive to have happened is different than what actually happened, especially in quick/sudden events like accidents and shootings.

-given the circumstances, I would call the non-emergency number and tell the officer what happened. If there was significant damage to your car, I would def get a lawyer, but that's not the case here.

Um, right. OP, call a lawyer. Don't go to the police station.

BTW "leaving after colliding" is an actual misdemeanor in DC if there is personal injury, just like the other PP said:

:https://beta.code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.05c.html

(a) Any person who operates or who is in physical control of a vehicle within the District who knows or has reason to believe that his or her vehicle has been in a collision shall immediately stop and:

(1) Where another person is injured, call or cause another to call 911 or call or cause another to call for an ambulance or other emergency assistance if necessary, remain on the scene until law enforcement arrives, and provide identifying information to law enforcement and to the injured person;

(2) Where real or personal property belonging to another is damaged or a domestic animal is injured, provide identifying information to the owner or operator of the property or the owner of the domestic animal or, where the owner or operator of the property or the owner of the domestic animal is not present, provide or cause another to provide identifying information and the location of the collision, to law enforcement or 911; or

(3) Where real or personal property or a wild or domestic animal, as a result of the collision, poses a risk to others, call or cause another to call 911 and provide identifying information, the location of the collision, and a description of the nature of the risk posed to others.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection (a) of this section, which the defendant must show by a preponderance of the evidence, that the defendant’s failure to stop or his or her failure to remain on the scene was based on a reasonable belief that his or her personal safety, or the safety of another, was at risk and that he or she called 911, or otherwise notified law enforcement, as soon as it was safe to do so, provided identifying information, provided a description of the collision, including the location of the collision or event, and followed the instructions of the 911 operator or a law enforcement officer.

(c) It is not a defense to a violation of this section that the defendant:

(1) Was intoxicated, impaired in any way, or distracted; or

(2) Was not at fault for the collision.

(d)(1)(A) A person violating subsection (a)(1) of this section shall upon conviction for the first offense be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or incarcerated for not more than 180 days, or both.

(B) A person violating subsection (a)(1) of this section when the person has a prior offense under subsection (a)(1) of this section and is being sentenced on the current offense shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(2)(A) A person violating subsection (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section shall upon conviction for the first offense be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or incarcerated for not more than 30 days, or both.

(B) A person violating subsection (a)(2) or (3) of this section when the person has a prior offense under subsection (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section and is being sentenced on the current offense shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or imprisoned not more than 90 days, or both.

Well based on this info, and considering there wasn't eve a collision according to the OP, (b) specifies that she was not required to stop if she felt her life was in danger. The OP called 911 to report the incident of road rage and would not stop because she obviously felt threatened physically. This seems like a simple case road rage and insurance fraud to me. Sounds like the guy who reported the accident is screwed.

that sounds like a reasonable argument ... for a lawyer to make on OP's behalf.

Anonymous wrote:Echoing what other PPs have said: do not go to the police station; do not talk to the police; do not have any further contact with anyone but your lawyer on the issue.

Something similar to this happened to me a few years ago. I received a few letters from the police department and sweated bullets several nights before consulting with a lawyer who gave me the advice I posted above.

I used this guy; there are many others: Daniel A. Gross, PLLC, 400 5th St NW #400, Washington, DC 20001, (202) 596-5716. He was professional, affordable, knowledgeable and efficient. Retaining him gave me immediate peace of mind and allowed someone who knows the law and my rights to deal with an issue that was out of my league and which could have had harsh consequences if not handled right.

Thank you Counsellor. You're very modest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of these posts are BS.
-you are not required to call the police if you are in an accident. Unless there are injuries or significant damage, officers generally just aid drivers in exchanging information.

- I'm a police officer, and a lot of times what you perceive to have happened is different than what actually happened, especially in quick/sudden events like accidents and shootings.

-given the circumstances, I would call the non-emergency number and tell the officer what happened. If there was significant damage to your car, I would def get a lawyer, but that's not the case here.

Um, right. OP, call a lawyer. Don't go to the police station.

BTW "leaving after colliding" is an actual misdemeanor in DC if there is personal injury, just like the other PP said:

:https://beta.code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.05c.html

(a) Any person who operates or who is in physical control of a vehicle within the District who knows or has reason to believe that his or her vehicle has been in a collision shall immediately stop and:

(1) Where another person is injured, call or cause another to call 911 or call or cause another to call for an ambulance or other emergency assistance if necessary, remain on the scene until law enforcement arrives, and provide identifying information to law enforcement and to the injured person;

(2) Where real or personal property belonging to another is damaged or a domestic animal is injured, provide identifying information to the owner or operator of the property or the owner of the domestic animal or, where the owner or operator of the property or the owner of the domestic animal is not present, provide or cause another to provide identifying information and the location of the collision, to law enforcement or 911; or

(3) Where real or personal property or a wild or domestic animal, as a result of the collision, poses a risk to others, call or cause another to call 911 and provide identifying information, the location of the collision, and a description of the nature of the risk posed to others.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection (a) of this section, which the defendant must show by a preponderance of the evidence, that the defendant’s failure to stop or his or her failure to remain on the scene was based on a reasonable belief that his or her personal safety, or the safety of another, was at risk and that he or she called 911, or otherwise notified law enforcement, as soon as it was safe to do so, provided identifying information, provided a description of the collision, including the location of the collision or event, and followed the instructions of the 911 operator or a law enforcement officer.

(c) It is not a defense to a violation of this section that the defendant:

(1) Was intoxicated, impaired in any way, or distracted; or

(2) Was not at fault for the collision.

(d)(1)(A) A person violating subsection (a)(1) of this section shall upon conviction for the first offense be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or incarcerated for not more than 180 days, or both.

(B) A person violating subsection (a)(1) of this section when the person has a prior offense under subsection (a)(1) of this section and is being sentenced on the current offense shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(2)(A) A person violating subsection (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section shall upon conviction for the first offense be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or incarcerated for not more than 30 days, or both.

(B) A person violating subsection (a)(2) or (3) of this section when the person has a prior offense under subsection (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section and is being sentenced on the current offense shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or imprisoned not more than 90 days, or both.

Well based on this info, and considering there wasn't eve a collision according to the OP, (b) specifies that she was not required to stop if she felt her life was in danger. The OP called 911 to report the incident of road rage and would not stop because she obviously felt threatened physically. This seems like a simple case road rage and insurance fraud to me. Sounds like the guy who reported the accident is screwed.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the other party can be charged with filing a fraudulent insurance claim and a false police report?

+1

This. Insurance fraud is a crime. So is filing a false report. Done.

I wonder if the other party can be charged with filing a fraudulent insurance claim and a false police report?

Anonymous wrote:Some of these posts are BS.
-you are not required to call the police if you are in an accident. Unless there are injuries or significant damage, officers generally just aid drivers in exchanging information.

- I'm a police officer, and a lot of times what you perceive to have happened is different than what actually happened, especially in quick/sudden events like accidents and shootings.

-given the circumstances, I would call the non-emergency number and tell the officer what happened. If there was significant damage to your car, I would def get a lawyer, but that's not the case here.

Um, right. OP, call a lawyer. Don't go to the police station.

BTW "leaving after colliding" is an actual misdemeanor in DC if there is personal injury, just like the other PP said:

:https://beta.code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.05c.html

(a) Any person who operates or who is in physical control of a vehicle within the District who knows or has reason to believe that his or her vehicle has been in a collision shall immediately stop and:

(1) Where another person is injured, call or cause another to call 911 or call or cause another to call for an ambulance or other emergency assistance if necessary, remain on the scene until law enforcement arrives, and provide identifying information to law enforcement and to the injured person;

(2) Where real or personal property belonging to another is damaged or a domestic animal is injured, provide identifying information to the owner or operator of the property or the owner of the domestic animal or, where the owner or operator of the property or the owner of the domestic animal is not present, provide or cause another to provide identifying information and the location of the collision, to law enforcement or 911; or

(3) Where real or personal property or a wild or domestic animal, as a result of the collision, poses a risk to others, call or cause another to call 911 and provide identifying information, the location of the collision, and a description of the nature of the risk posed to others.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection (a) of this section, which the defendant must show by a preponderance of the evidence, that the defendant’s failure to stop or his or her failure to remain on the scene was based on a reasonable belief that his or her personal safety, or the safety of another, was at risk and that he or she called 911, or otherwise notified law enforcement, as soon as it was safe to do so, provided identifying information, provided a description of the collision, including the location of the collision or event, and followed the instructions of the 911 operator or a law enforcement officer.

(c) It is not a defense to a violation of this section that the defendant:

(1) Was intoxicated, impaired in any way, or distracted; or

(2) Was not at fault for the collision.

(d)(1)(A) A person violating subsection (a)(1) of this section shall upon conviction for the first offense be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or incarcerated for not more than 180 days, or both.

(B) A person violating subsection (a)(1) of this section when the person has a prior offense under subsection (a)(1) of this section and is being sentenced on the current offense shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(2)(A) A person violating subsection (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section shall upon conviction for the first offense be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or incarcerated for not more than 30 days, or both.

(B) A person violating subsection (a)(2) or (3) of this section when the person has a prior offense under subsection (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section and is being sentenced on the current offense shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01, or imprisoned not more than 90 days, or both.

Anonymous wrote:I posted here earlier this month of being the victim of road rage while driving home with my two kids. The post can be found here http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/642145.page

Well a couple of things have occurred. First the wacko who chased us has filed a report with the DC police claiming that I hit him. He also had his insurance company contact mine to make a claim. He is claiming $2,600 of damage and saying his entire front bumper was ripped off during the incident. After an investigation by my insurance company, including my clearly undamaged car, the claim has been denied.

The other issue is I received a letter from the hit and run unit of the DC police saying I have to report to their office in two weeks. It is not a court appearance. They just want me to show up with my car, license, and insurance card. I imagine they would want to hear my side of the story and inspect my car. This is a major inconvenience as I do not live in DC. I tried contacting the office through phone calls and email, but I get no response. I have sent them photos of my car, a record of the 911 call that we made during the incident, a description of what unfolded that evening, and a contact and phone number for my insurance company.

I guess at this point, I have to go there. My question is, should I get a lawyer, or is that overkill?

Thanks for any sound advice you can offer!

OP, your insurance will always deny a claim of hit and run. Standard protocol.

Some of these posts are BS.
-you are not required to call the police if you are in an accident. Unless there are injuries or significant damage, officers generally just aid drivers in exchanging information.

- I'm a police officer, and a lot of times what you perceive to have happened is different than what actually happened, especially in quick/sudden events like accidents and shootings.

-given the circumstances, I would call the non-emergency number and tell the officer what happened. If there was significant damage to your car, I would def get a lawyer, but that's not the case here.

Echoing what other PPs have said: do not go to the police station; do not talk to the police; do not have any further contact with anyone but your lawyer on the issue.

Something similar to this happened to me a few years ago. I received a few letters from the police department and sweated bullets several nights before consulting with a lawyer who gave me the advice I posted above.

I used this guy; there are many others: Daniel A. Gross, PLLC, 400 5th St NW #400, Washington, DC 20001, (202) 596-5716. He was professional, affordable, knowledgeable and efficient. Retaining him gave me immediate peace of mind and allowed someone who knows the law and my rights to deal with an issue that was out of my league and which could have had harsh consequences if not handled right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP....given the level of effort he gave chasing you down and coming up to bang on your car window, it is almost the type of behavior of someone whose car DID get hit and they thought the other driver was fleeing the scene. Is it at all possible that you did hit his car? I've seen minor accidents where one car doesn't have any visible damage but the other did. This sounds strange for him to go through to this level of effort and to make false reports just because he was mad. I'm thinking you actually hit him and didn't realize it.

Actually no. I was a victim of road rage once. The aggressor actually called the police on ME. All I did was a light toot on the horn when the driver in front of me clearly had. T seen the light had turned green after a good 15-20 seconds. He then proceeded to terrorize me to the point that I called 911 when he pulled up next to me and opened his glove box, making me fear he had a gun. I couldn't believe it when the police showed up at my house to investigate a claim of road rage. The cop 100 percent believed I was the wronged party and said it's a common thing for people w road rage to be the one to file the report. It's some kind of mental illness and complete lack of responsibly.

+1

I have heard of this phenomenon. Fortunately, most police are aware of this kind of criminal behavior, too.

Maybe someone did hit him and he thought it was you but it wasn't. Were there any cameras in the area at the time?

pervious poster again--
I found the below online and it explains it better than I did.
I had this happen to me 2 years ago---I hit a bumper of a car in front of me while going 5 miles per hour.. I got out and the other driver did too. We agree there was no damage and so we drove off (I took pictures of both cars) However, the other driver than reported it to the police later that day and claimed I fled the crime. I was sent the letter you received from the DC polcie. I did not respond to it and talked to an attorney. He said, that whatever I did I should not report to the police station because even if there was no damage, I committed a crime in the District because I left the scene of an accident without calling the police.. The police ended up sending me the letter 2 more times (as certified letters) and finally the issue dropped.

Here's what I found online:

Leaving after Colliding is the official name in Washington, D.C. for what is commonly referred to as Hit and Run. It occurs when a driver strikes another person, car, or dog then fails to immediately stop and render aid and/or exchange insurance information. As any D.C. criminal lawyer can tell you, it is a common occurrence in a city filled with busy streets and people in a hurry. What is also a common occurrence is that a witness to the accident gets either a license plate number, or some information about the vehicle that allows the D.C. police to identify it. Let me be clear: the information provided to the police by the witness or video almost always identified ONLY the vehicle involved, NOT the driver behind the wheel. Is this important? You bet it is.

In order to prove that a defendant committed hit and run, or Leaving after Colliding in Washington, D.C., the government has to prove, not just what vehicle was involved, but who was actually driving it. If a witness saw only the car, but not who was behind the wheel, the government has no way to prove its case. So how do the D.C. police try to solve this not-insignificant problem? Well, they send you a letter and ask you to come on down and prove their case for them. And the thing is, many Leaving after Colliding defendants do just that.

Top five reasons people follow the instructions on the Hit and Run Letter, and walk into a police station:

5. They always do what the police ask.

4. They want to confess.

3. They want to convince the police that they were not driving the car.

2. They think that if they help the police, the police will help them.

1. They think they have no choice.

Well, if you just want to make the police happy or want to get something off your chest, then I can’t help you. But I can tell you that 1) you will not convince the police you were driving the car, unless you are throwing someone else under the bus; 2) the police will not help you, unless you need help being arrested; and 3) you certainly do have a choice, and are under absolutely no obligation to respond to the Hit and Run letter.

It is easy to see why many people follow the instructions in the Hit and Run Letter, since it tells you that “you are to appear at the police station.” It even gives you a date and time, and gives you a list of things that “YOU MUST BRING.” The police use that forceful language on purpose, because they want to scare the suspect into compliance, and are banking on the belief that most people don’t know their rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. That sucks, OP. I wouldn't get a lawyer at this point. You have pics and you made a call to 911.

Anyone who speaks to the police, about a possible criminal matter that they may possibly be charged for, without a lawyer, is an idiot.

The police aren't interested in talking to you about the weather or if you should get new carpet. They're trying to see if they should/can charge you with a crime. Why would you help them in this?

Agree 100% I would actually speak to a lawyer who handles issues like this prior to going to the police.

"Hit and run" is officially known as "leaving after colliding" is a crime in the misdemeanor crime in the District (DC has some of the toughest laws in the country in this regard). By DC law you are required to have an officer come to the scene of any accident (although it's sometimes difficult to get one to actually come). But if you leave the scene
of an accident with or without property damage you have committed a crime known as "leaving after colliding".
In a classic hit-and-run when a letter such as one you received is sent, the police want you to come to the station because although they know which car was involved in (and "fled) the accident but they don't know who was driving..
By going to the station and admitting to driving the vehicle you are admitting to the crime of "leaving after colliding" and you'll be charged. If you don't show up they have no way of knowing who was driving the vehicle and they can't charge you.. When they send these letters they're basically trying to get you to give yourself up. So in general you never want to show up. They will never come to your residence to seek you out.. They have NO way of knowing who was driving unless you tell them so they're not going to track you down......because it could have been you or any one of your 100 closest friends whom you lent your car too.

This case is a bit more complicated since it was a road rage incident and you have already admitted to being the driver of the vehicle both to your insurance company and to the police (in your attempt to contact them...). And there was no collision to begin with.
Regardless I would talk to a lawyer familiar with DC hit and run laws before talking to the police. Most attorneys will offer a free consult for things like this.

OP, I've had something similar happen to me. Some lady thought I hit her car (I didn't, really and truly there was ZERO impact), and she chased me through the city which was terrifying. Only difference is that I called 911 and they instructed me to pull into a busy parking lot to wait for them. I did, they inspected both cars (zero damage to either) and told her to get lost and not to follow me.

He's crazy. If you can't reach the precinct, submit a request through DC 311 online and see if they get back to you - ice had really good luck with 311 here.

Otherwise just make it happen and be done with it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, maybe when you cut him off he had to swerve to avoid hitting you and hit a rail or something that resulted in damage to his car. I'd say even if your car isn't what ripped his bumper off, you cut him off and caused the damage, so are at fault. Do you think he ripped his car bumper off just to be able to harass you? His behavior from the earlier thread makes it seem as if something did happen. Poor guy, because there is no way of proving what happened. I hate drivers like you who are totally oblivious as to why cutting in front of people is a problem. Maybe he can use the other thread as an admission of guilt on your part that you cut him off

Seriously. What if you DID cause him to have some sort of accident and drove off. Now we understand why he might have been chasing you.

I remember the OP- I wonder if something did happen....