Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 10:28     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Plenty of folks get PhDs, choose not to pursue academia, and will often find many opportunities to make quite a bit of money in the private sector.

True for some fields, for others, it is usually considered a disappointment or settling not to get an academic job, as that is what you are trained for in grad school.

That's fine, I just thought it was odd that some PPs were making broad-brushed statements about PhDs as wastes of money when obviously the universe of possible/likely career paths is so field-dependent.


people were not talking about getting a phd - rather that TT at a major university in a nice city/area is very very difficult to attain, and the setting that is a goal is going to result in disappointment for a vast majority of people.

as for phd - people make work with it, but for most, it's not what they wanted. phd is different from JD, or MD or MBA (or pharmacy, dentistry and similar degrees) in a way it makes you specialize in a tiny topic and makes you feel your efforts have been wasted if you do not become a professor in that area. most of those phds could have obtained those other degrees - they would have some debt but so much more flexibility in their careers and none of the nagging sense of failure that so many phds have.

as a phd from a family of phds married to a phd and reasonably successful - i will not encourage my kids to pursue this. it's a huge gamble and not worth it.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 10:25     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Plenty of folks get PhDs, choose not to pursue academia, and will often find many opportunities to make quite a bit of money in the private sector.

True for some fields, for others, it is usually considered a disappointment or settling not to get an academic job, as that is what you are trained for in grad school.

That's fine, I just thought it was odd that some PPs were making broad-brushed statements about PhDs as wastes of money when obviously the universe of possible/likely career paths is so field-dependent.


Good point.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 10:22     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Plenty of folks get PhDs, choose not to pursue academia, and will often find many opportunities to make quite a bit of money in the private sector.

True for some fields, for others, it is usually considered a disappointment or settling not to get an academic job, as that is what you are trained for in grad school.

That's fine, I just thought it was odd that some PPs were making broad-brushed statements about PhDs as wastes of money when obviously the universe of possible/likely career paths is so field-dependent.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 10:18     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:Plenty of folks get PhDs, choose not to pursue academia, and will often find many opportunities to make quite a bit of money in the private sector.


True for some fields, for others, it is usually considered a disappointment or settling not to get an academic job, as that is what you are trained for in grad school. Few literature PhDs begin and end their programs with their hearts set on teaching at Sidwell. Coming from some programs, it is bad enough to have to teach at a SLAC. I am disappointed at having to teach at a middling research university. And so forth.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 10:03     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Plenty of folks get PhDs, choose not to pursue academia, and will often find many opportunities to make quite a bit of money in the private sector.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 10:00     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you're a tenured professor at a large, research university and have an endowed chair, you can definitely make enough money to afford the lifestyle the first essay writer described. Take the University of Michigan, for example (just because the salaries are public): a particular tenured professor in the Political Science Department makes $175,000. If both are tenured professors (unusual, but not impossible), you could conceivably be talking about $300,000 household income. Add speaking fees on top of that and, especially if they're living in a small college town (like Ann Arbor), they could definitely have a house like that.


PP here. I looked up professor salaries writ large at Michigan. Some business school professors are making north of $400,000. Even the assistant professor in the business school are making $150,000. Those guys and gals are also doing consulting work, so add that income and you've got some pretty rich profs.

http://www.umsalary.info/deptsearch.php?Dept=Ross+School+of+Business&Year=0&Campus=1


I don't think anyone who recently posted is trying to say that it is impossible to have a very comfortable life as a professor, but that there is a disparity between the salaries of many humanities profs and those working in professional fields. It should also be taken into account that it is very difficult to get a tenure track job. A family member recently said to me: you're just a prof at GW, why aren't you working at Princeton, your alma mater? Duh. I am just grateful to live in a city and not someplace in the sticks like many of my grad school cohort. There are about 2 jobs per year in my field with a couple to a several hundred applicants.


This. Most people don't get realize this about TT jobs in academia.

I would not encourage any undergrads or my own young kid to pursue a Ph.D., unless s/he is extremely bright, extremely passionate about the field, and accepting of the fact that it is not typically a lucrative profession and is difficult to find a TT position, particularly in desirable areas of the country. I might instead encourage my own kid to pursue the MD route, like my spouse, as it is more practical and the job outlook is much better (my MD spouse has been able to easily follow me around the country for academic jobs).
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 09:31     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.


You are all completely missing the point. Whether or not a professor has a nice life "by our standards," it clearly gave this kid something to aspire to.


Being a tenured professor at a major university is great the same way it is great to be a top 10 golfer or a Hollywood movie star. Only very few make it to the top and they are handsomely rewarded. The rest either work in academia for peanuts or abandon it and earn more money but feel a lot of their schooling was for nothing.

I would never tell my children to pursue this. Ever.


You are seriously comparing being a university professor to being a Hollywood movie star? I think it's a *little* more difficult to become a major A list celebrity. LOL


Major A list making 20 mil per movie yes. A lead in a HBO type series quite comparable to tenured professor at Harvard, Stanford etc.

It's very difficult and, unlike in sports where you know fairly quickly if you are gong to be a major star, it takes many years and you can still be unsure of yiu can make it big. There are people in their late thirties still trying to make it. Incredible waste. Avoid at all cost.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 09:29     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.


You are all completely missing the point. Whether or not a professor has a nice life "by our standards," it clearly gave this kid something to aspire to.


Being a tenured professor at a major university is great the same way it is great to be a top 10 golfer or a Hollywood movie star. Only very few make it to the top and they are handsomely rewarded. The rest either work in academia for peanuts or abandon it and earn more money but feel a lot of their schooling was for nothing.

I would never tell my children to pursue this. Ever.



Major A list making 20 mil per movie yes. A lead in a HBO type series quite comparable to tenured professor at Harvard, Stanford etc.

It's very difficult and, unlike in sport where you know fairly quickly if you are gong to be a major star, it takes many years and you can still be unsure of yiu can make it big. There are people in their late thirties still trying to make it. Incredible waste. Avoid at all cost.
You are seriously comparing being a university professor to being a Hollywood movie star? I think it's a *little* more difficult to become a major A list celebrity. LOL
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 09:18     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.


You are all completely missing the point. Whether or not a professor has a nice life "by our standards," it clearly gave this kid something to aspire to.


Being a tenured professor at a major university is great the same way it is great to be a top 10 golfer or a Hollywood movie star. Only very few make it to the top and they are handsomely rewarded. The rest either work in academia for peanuts or abandon it and earn more money but feel a lot of their schooling was for nothing.

I would never tell my children to pursue this. Ever.


+1. Take it from the people who are actually in the profession.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 09:17     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.


You are all completely missing the point. Whether or not a professor has a nice life "by our standards," it clearly gave this kid something to aspire to.


Being a tenured professor at a major university is great the same way it is great to be a top 10 golfer or a Hollywood movie star. Only very few make it to the top and they are handsomely rewarded. The rest either work in academia for peanuts or abandon it and earn more money but feel a lot of their schooling was for nothing.

I would never tell my children to pursue this. Ever.


You are seriously comparing being a university professor to being a Hollywood movie star? I think it's a *little* more difficult to become a major A list celebrity. LOL
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 09:15     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What professors live like that?


This is your takeway? Lol

Law, med, and business school professors can do really well: easily 200k +, not to mention consulting fees, royalties from textbooks or other books, speaking fees, etc. Also, sometimes professors can nice perks like free housing (in really nice historic buildings) if they are deans or have endowed chairs, etc.

Plus they get a ton of time off. And obviously there are colleges and universities everywhere, including LCOL areas.

I knew a university professor, and in addition to a $175,000 salary, he also was an expert witness in his field at very high day rates and a speaker at conferences. Easily made $250,000 total. His wife was a high school teacher, so I'm guessing their combined income was way over $300,000. Kids were grown. They spent every summer on six-week trips through Europe, month-long cruises throughout the Mediterranean, whatever.


This has been my experience of the (older) professors I knew in our family or among my parents' friends. They traveled all summer when I was growing up.

The few friends I know trying to get into academica have been adjuncting and that is not a good gig.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 09:04     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.


You are all completely missing the point. Whether or not a professor has a nice life "by our standards," it clearly gave this kid something to aspire to.


Being a tenured professor at a major university is great the same way it is great to be a top 10 golfer or a Hollywood movie star. Only very few make it to the top and they are handsomely rewarded. The rest either work in academia for peanuts or abandon it and earn more money but feel a lot of their schooling was for nothing.

I would never tell my children to pursue this. Ever.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 08:59     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.


Neither the "nice life" professor or the rich Brady bunch architects are myths. They do exist.

We are talking of people at the top of their profession and the major universities. If you are tenured and of full professor status you can make a generous income.

The top level of architects can also make handsome incomes, especially those who own their own practice. I'm not necessarily talking about Robert Stern but just to use as an example is a family friend who started a practice designing houses for the very rich in the Hamptons. He has done extremely well. A niche market indeed. The world is filled with these niches.

Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 08:53     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.


You are all completely missing the point. Whether or not a professor has a nice life "by our standards," it clearly gave this kid something to aspire to.


There are various points being made here. Some of us are no longer talking about the article, and that's just fine!
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2017 08:51     Subject: Work, Money and Class
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you're a tenured professor at a large, research university and have an endowed chair, you can definitely make enough money to afford the lifestyle the first essay writer described. Take the University of Michigan, for example (just because the salaries are public): a particular tenured professor in the Political Science Department makes $175,000. If both are tenured professors (unusual, but not impossible), you could conceivably be talking about $300,000 household income. Add speaking fees on top of that and, especially if they're living in a small college town (like Ann Arbor), they could definitely have a house like that.


PP here. I looked up professor salaries writ large at Michigan. Some business school professors are making north of $400,000. Even the assistant professor in the business school are making $150,000. Those guys and gals are also doing consulting work, so add that income and you've got some pretty rich profs.

http://www.umsalary.info/deptsearch.php?Dept=Ross+School+of+Business&Year=0&Campus=1


I don't think anyone who recently posted is trying to say that it is impossible to have a very comfortable life as a professor, but that there is a disparity between the salaries of many humanities profs and those working in professional fields. It should also be taken into account that it is very difficult to get a tenure track job. A family member recently said to me: you're just a prof at GW, why aren't you working at Princeton, your alma mater? Duh. I am just grateful to live in a city and not someplace in the sticks like many of my grad school cohort. There are about 2 jobs per year in my field with a couple to a several hundred applicants.