Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 15:45     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:

5) there is no downside to belief in Christ. If you are on your deathbed it may be your only hope and it would be absolutely foolish not to grasp the only rescue rope you have. If it's not true you haven't lost anything.


Am I the only one who notices that Christianity is exactly like a deal with the devil?

You're just making a deal with Jesus instead. You're literally "selling your soul" in exchange for security in the afterlife, the mirror of "selling your soul" to "Satan" for security in this life.

If your acceptance of your deity is based on fear of what might happen if you don't, you probably want to rethink whether or not you're in an abusive relationship.

And I'm not an atheist, btw.


Yes, you probably are the only one who notices, because your interpretation of Christian beliefs is so far off base.

It has nothing to do with "making a deal" with Jesus to "sell your soul for security in the afterlife."

We, all of us, including you, PP, were created by God, a soul made in the image of God. You, like every other human, have fallen away from that, and spend your entire life trying to get back to God - to the feeling of wholeness that comes only from His love. The Way Back to Him is Jesus Christ.

It's not a "deal" that you cut for the afterlife. Following Jesus is literally discovering who you are, why you were made and what your purpose is. It's anything but abusive. The abuse, we do to ourselves.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 14:27     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?

5) there is no downside to belief in Christ. If you are on your deathbed it may be your only hope and it would be absolutely foolish not to grasp the only rescue rope you have. If it's not true you haven't lost anything.


Am I the only one who notices that Christianity is exactly like a deal with the devil?

You're just making a deal with Jesus instead. You're literally "selling your soul" in exchange for security in the afterlife, the mirror of "selling your soul" to "Satan" for security in this life.

If your acceptance of your deity is based on fear of what might happen if you don't, you probably want to rethink whether or not you're in an abusive relationship.

And I'm not an atheist, btw.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 13:55     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Enveloped with indescribably love and calm and peacefulness and reunited with loved ones, including pets. Await the second coming after which we'll be judged and reunited with our bodies and live in peace forevermore.



I have a question- my baby died at 23 weeks, after being born. Will he be that way, or will he be older?


If there is an afterlife, you'll find out then.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 13:52     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe in God, Jesus , the Holy Spirit , Heaven and Hell.
My personal reasons are spiritual, observational , artifactually and common sense.

1) I believe we have a soul. I think even atheists are a little offended If anybody said their child didn't have a soul.

2) The story of Christ penetrates my soul for some reason. The triumph of love, the balance of justice and the searingly accurate accounting of human weakness does not feel like it originated from human minds. Humans don't like to be humiliated by their character. The way you can't get the story out of your mind or off your hands is unique among any I have witnessed.

3) To me it's obvious their is an intelligent entity that created our existence and physical universe. Matter, time , physical laws, math and love don't just happen from nothing. That is a more unlikely prospect than a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's obvious that our creation occurred outside the realm of math, time , a sequence of events , and physical laws. That would be a entity beyond our comprehension and capacity.

4) the shroud of Turin is the only man made object on earth that man cannot understand or has any idea how to duplicate. And it is the image of Crucified Christ.

5) there is no downside to belief in Christ. If you are on your deathbed it may be your only hope and it would be absolutely foolish not to grasp the only rescue rope you have. If it's not true you haven't lost anything.


Atheism has nothing to do with what we are (i.e., whether or not we have a soul). It's about whether or not there is a god.

FFS, why is atheism and agnosticism so hard for religious people to understand? It's pretty simple, and it deals with one thing: god. It's not about what it means to be human or whether we have a soul.

As for #5, that's all debatable. Some people genuinely seek the truth. So this ridiculous argument that they should believe in something for some selfish reason because there's "no downslde" runs contrary to what they value. Religious people talk about values all of the time. You don't think non-religious people have values? Some of us genuinely want to know the truth of things (as much as possible).



A soul is just as scientifically irrational a belief as a God. For an atheist to believe in a unprovable soul but not a probably more provable intelligent creator based on observation of creation just seems to indicate irrational stubbornness but that's just my opinion. As to 5) what you value is irrelevant in about 1 minute when your soulless mass of cells dies. On your deathbed it is unarguable that the only thing you have time to do that may effect your future positively is believe and submit to Jesus. There is no downside and it would seem to be foolish not to go for it.


Unless there is a god and he recognizes a conniver - as you'd think a being who created the world could do.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 13:49     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:I believe in God, Jesus , the Holy Spirit , Heaven and Hell.
My personal reasons are spiritual, observational , artifactually and common sense.

1) I believe we have a soul. I think even atheists are a little offended If anybody said their child didn't have a soul.

2) The story of Christ penetrates my soul for some reason. The triumph of love, the balance of justice and the searingly accurate accounting of human weakness does not feel like it originated from human minds. Humans don't like to be humiliated by their character. The way you can't get the story out of your mind or off your hands is unique among any I have witnessed.

3) To me it's obvious their is an intelligent entity that created our existence and physical universe. Matter, time , physical laws, math and love don't just happen from nothing. That is a more unlikely prospect than a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's obvious that our creation occurred outside the realm of math, time , a sequence of events , and physical laws. That would be a entity beyond our comprehension and capacity.

4) the shroud of Turin is the only man made object on earth that man cannot understand or has any idea how to duplicate. And it is the image of Crucified Christ.

5) there is no downside to belief in Christ. If you are on your deathbed it may be your only hope and it would be absolutely foolish not to grasp the only rescue rope you have. If it's not true you haven't lost anything.


Unless there is a special place in hell for people who try to trick god by pretending they believe when they really are not sure at all.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 13:45     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:I had a near death experience years ago. I can tell you that it is really peaceful, no need to fear it. I went up a tunnel into peace, then back through the tunnel painfully back into my body.


There's no guarantee that a near death experience is the same as death itself.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 13:27     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I had a near death experience years ago. I can tell you that it is really peaceful, no need to fear it. I went up a tunnel into peace, then back through the tunnel painfully back into my body.


Mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmnnnnnn STFU



It's the truth. I am not a religious person. But I can tell you that it is not 'nothingness'. It's peaceful. I think our energy doesn't die with the body. Perhaps the body is just a vehicle for our energy on Earth.


+1

I agree with all of this. I've never had a near death experience, but I am an intuitive and an astral traveller. No, I can't (and have zero motive to) prove anything to skeptics or cynics on this thread. But in my experiences, there is peace at the end of this particular tunnel. I don't believe in the Abrahamic "Hell". I've seen astral underworld realms that look more like the realm of Hades or the realm of Hela - underworld death realms that are not "punishment", just death realms where you go in between reincarnations.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 13:27     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe in God, Jesus , the Holy Spirit , Heaven and Hell.
My personal reasons are spiritual, observational , artifactually and common sense.

1) I believe we have a soul. I think even atheists are a little offended If anybody said their child didn't have a soul.

2) The story of Christ penetrates my soul for some reason. The triumph of love, the balance of justice and the searingly accurate accounting of human weakness does not feel like it originated from human minds. Humans don't like to be humiliated by their character. The way you can't get the story out of your mind or off your hands is unique among any I have witnessed.

3) To me it's obvious their is an intelligent entity that created our existence and physical universe. Matter, time , physical laws, math and love don't just happen from nothing. That is a more unlikely prospect than a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's obvious that our creation occurred outside the realm of math, time , a sequence of events , and physical laws. That would be a entity beyond our comprehension and capacity.

4) the shroud of Turin is the only man made object on earth that man cannot understand or has any idea how to duplicate. And it is the image of Crucified Christ.

5) there is no downside to belief in Christ. If you are on your deathbed it may be your only hope and it would be absolutely foolish not to grasp the only rescue rope you have. If it's not true you haven't lost anything.


Atheism has nothing to do with what we are (i.e., whether or not we have a soul). It's about whether or not there is a god.

FFS, why is atheism and agnosticism so hard for religious people to understand? It's pretty simple, and it deals with one thing: god. It's not about what it means to be human or whether we have a soul.

As for #5, that's all debatable. Some people genuinely seek the truth. So this ridiculous argument that they should believe in something for some selfish reason because there's "no downslde" runs contrary to what they value. Religious people talk about values all of the time. You don't think non-religious people have values? Some of us genuinely want to know the truth of things (as much as possible).



A soul is just as scientifically irrational a belief as a God. For an atheist to believe in a unprovable soul but not a probably more provable intelligent creator based on observation of creation just seems to indicate irrational stubbornness but that's just my opinion. As to 5) what you value is irrelevant in about 1 minute when your soulless mass of cells dies. On your deathbed it is unarguable that the only thing you have time to do that may effect your future positively is believe and submit to Jesus. There is no downside and it would seem to be foolish not to go for it.


That depends on how you define soul. Concepts like mind or personality can fall into the same general sphere as soul. But I wasn't even saying that I believe in the concept of a soul. I was saying that you shouldn't assume anything else by someone's atheism other than they don't believe in a god(s). That's what the word means.

And you are welcome to your opinion, but you don't know me, so for you to assume that my disbelief in god has to do with "irrational stubborness" involves a lot of assumption.

Yes, there is a downside. Some people would like to live the life they have here instead of fixate on a possible afterlife.

I'm sure you would be the first person to get offended if an atheist or agnostic accused you of being stubborn and foolish for your beliefs, but you think it's perfectly okay to call other people those things. And then, worse, you think by doing that you are actually drawing people close to Jesus? If anything, you are pushing them away.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 11:18     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:I believe in God, Jesus , the Holy Spirit , Heaven and Hell.
My personal reasons are spiritual, observational , artifactually and common sense.

1) I believe we have a soul. I think even atheists are a little offended If anybody said their child didn't have a soul.

2) The story of Christ penetrates my soul for some reason. The triumph of love, the balance of justice and the searingly accurate accounting of human weakness does not feel like it originated from human minds. Humans don't like to be humiliated by their character. The way you can't get the story out of your mind or off your hands is unique among any I have witnessed.

3) To me it's obvious their is an intelligent entity that created our existence and physical universe. Matter, time , physical laws, math and love don't just happen from nothing. That is a more unlikely prospect than a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's obvious that our creation occurred outside the realm of math, time , a sequence of events , and physical laws. That would be a entity beyond our comprehension and capacity.

4) the shroud of Turin is the only man made object on earth that man cannot understand or has any idea how to duplicate. And it is the image of Crucified Christ.

5) there is no downside to belief in Christ. If you are on your deathbed it may be your only hope and it would be absolutely foolish not to grasp the only rescue rope you have. If it's not true you haven't lost anything.


Pretty sure Juan Diego's tilma, with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, falls in this category. Still on display in Mexico City, for the curious.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 11:12     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I had a near death experience years ago. I can tell you that it is really peaceful, no need to fear it. I went up a tunnel into peace, then back through the tunnel painfully back into my body.


Mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmnnnnnn STFU


No you come on. I believe it.


Its so crazy how weird people are


Is the word 'weird' making a comeback?
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 11:11     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Enveloped with indescribably love and calm and peacefulness and reunited with loved ones, including pets. Await the second coming after which we'll be judged and reunited with our bodies and live in peace forevermore.



I have a question- my baby died at 23 weeks, after being born. Will he be that way, or will he be older?


The bible hints we will all have new bodies but we will inherently recognize one another.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 11:06     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:Enveloped with indescribably love and calm and peacefulness and reunited with loved ones, including pets. Await the second coming after which we'll be judged and reunited with our bodies and live in peace forevermore.



I have a question- my baby died at 23 weeks, after being born. Will he be that way, or will he be older?
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 10:41     Subject: Re:What so you think happens to us when we die?
Anonymous wrote:The Kingdom of God can be experienced now: "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." Other translations say that the kingdom is "within you" (Luke 17:20-21). The veil between this world and the afterlife is very thin. I experience God's presence during prayers, while reading scripture, during communion, in nature, and at random times. I have a deep sense of assurance that this connection to God will be there when I die, but in a much more intense form. As St Paul said, "For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known" (1 Cor 13:12).


+1

And the Hell is also exist right here, on Earth. Some people just put themselves through it by their choices in life.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 10:37     Subject: What so you think happens to us when we die?
Adding to the post on the prior page..

The existence of dna is a major piece of evidence supporting an intelligent creator. Dna is the only naturally occurring code in the physical world. It is a code similar to music written on a page or a digital computer code that are intelligently designed. Slight changes in the code alter the music, computer program or life-form. The human genome has the equivalent of 3 billion letters and would fill a library with books. Code is a product of intelligence , it is not present anywhere in the universe other than life.
Anonymous
Post 05/13/2017 10:24     Subject: Re:What so you think happens to us when we die?
The Kingdom of God can be experienced now: "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." Other translations say that the kingdom is "within you" (Luke 17:20-21). The veil between this world and the afterlife is very thin. I experience God's presence during prayers, while reading scripture, during communion, in nature, and at random times. I have a deep sense of assurance that this connection to God will be there when I die, but in a much more intense form. As St Paul said, "For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known" (1 Cor 13:12).