Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this devolving into an argument about the use of H1B in the tech sector? OP is talking about teachers - we have a dearth of them especially in the STEM fields. STEM teachers get paid a lot more than other subjects, especially in challenging schools.

Some school districts have such a teacher shortage problem that they are giving out emergency certifications, and I bet you many of such teachers aren't fully qualified to teach in STEM subjects.

The purpose of H1s work visa is to fill gaps/shortages in the workforce. We have a shortage of qualified STEM teachers. Unless you are willing to raise your taxes to offer better pay to more qualified STEM teachers, your options are either to hire a foreigner or just live with subar STEM teachers. Or I guess you could home school.

How many of you would encourage your HS aged DCs to major in STEM to teach in public school?

+ 1.

We need to fill the gap in the workforce so that we do not fall behind. We also need to pay STEM teachers a lot more so that the public schools are an attractive opportunity.

Should not be a debate. Increase the pay. More people will migrate to the jobs Better qualified people. There is absolutely no reason for h1b

And where is the money going to come from? Right now, we have a R controlled government. In MD, we have a R governor. Rs are notorious for defunding education, and lowering pay as much as possible. They also hate unions. So, which government is going to increase funding for teachers' salaries? Certainly not the red states. Some of them have such a huge budget issue that they have cut schools back to four days/week.

So, like I said, you either have to push your elected officals to raise taxes to increase teacher's pay, or you whave to be willing to live with subpar STEM teachers. Or, you hire more qualified foreign teachers.

Anonymous wrote:Why is this devolving into an argument about the use of H1B in the tech sector? OP is talking about teachers - we have a dearth of them especially in the STEM fields. STEM teachers get paid a lot more than other subjects, especially in challenging schools.

Some school districts have such a teacher shortage problem that they are giving out emergency certifications, and I bet you many of such teachers aren't fully qualified to teach in STEM subjects.

The purpose of H1s work visa is to fill gaps/shortages in the workforce. We have a shortage of qualified STEM teachers. Unless you are willing to raise your taxes to offer better pay to more qualified STEM teachers, your options are either to hire a foreigner or just live with subar STEM teachers. Or I guess you could home school.

How many of you would encourage your HS aged DCs to major in STEM to teach in public school?

No, they don't. I teach algebra in a title 1 middle school. I make the same amount as my friend who teaches English in a wealthy middle school 5 miles away. It's based entirely on years of service and degree level (Bachelors/masters/PhD).

I will tell you why my math major classmates didn't go into public education: Money + career growth. Being a teacher is an odd job, as it is so stagnant. The only way to get a promotion is to leave the classroom. Otherwise, it's more work for zero pay increase. Here, be the team lead or the department chair. More after school meetings, zero money. My classmates with lower GPAs than my own (same major) are making at least 2-3 times what I make based on what I can find on glassdoor, etc. If parents want those people in the school system, you need to compensate them in order to lure them away from jobs that can actually pay off student loans.

There is no shortage of people in this country who understand math and are capable/qualified to teach it. There IS a shortage of people who want to teach it. How can you make it desirable? $48k starting salary isn't enough, when recruiters are flashing $75k for other offers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since MCPS has a chronic problem with an acute shortage of quality teachers in almost all subjects but specifically Maths, Science and Foreign Language, we should think about using H1B visa program to get qualified teachers to fill the gaps. What do you think? World class teachers or not?

Re “How ‘Hire American’ Could Affect a World of Tech Workers” (news article, April 19):

The problem with the H-1B visa program is that it depresses the price of tech jobs, which in turn lowers the desirability for tech jobs and the incentive for American students to seek math and science education.

This would be true to some extent even if the system weren’t abused, but The New York Times and other outlets have shown that employment companies are gaming the lottery system and being used not just to fill a critical opening but also to replace entire departments of citizens who are already working.

The invisible hand is supposed to respond to a shortage by raising the price. Bringing in substitute labor from foreign countries lowers the price. I don’t know what President Trump has in mind, but if companies are allowed to lower the price of tech jobs, the American work force will continue its decline as a leader in math and science.

Agree completely.

And I believe this is true for both legal and illegal immigration. The reason illegal immigration continues is because companies get to pay people less for the same job and workers still take the job. If there were no workers taking these jobs, wages would go up.

Same thing applies here. If we rely on H1Bs, conditions worsen for qualified candidates here in the IS. I have family who has come here on H1B visas. They work more hours and for lower pay than citizens would accept, simply just to have the chance to come to this country. Understandable, but not great for IS workers.

I agree, that H1b needs reform. Raising the wages, may raise the overall standard of living. But given that the US, is a global economy, it will not make us economically viable. The situation will end up being worse, with companies not being able to compete. Double edged sword. Prices should be driven by market economics. Unless Americans are willing to compete at global wages, companies will find ways to outsource. There are so many avenues to do that. And the wages/taxes won't even be spent here

Curious as to who is spreading rumors that H1B actually gets paid lower. Did you know that the offered salary needs to go through DOL and they have to ensure that these potential candidates are paid at a market rate? If they don't then DOL will not approve the application and the employer will need to revise to ensure market rate is given. If people are saying that H1B is still paid lower after this process then something is wrong with DOL. Does anyone actually have additional information on how they found out that H1B employees are paid less?

Direct personal experience. I hire them from hexaware. Testers are 1/2 he cost of local testers

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this devolving into an argument about the use of H1B in the tech sector? OP is talking about teachers - we have a dearth of them especially in the STEM fields. STEM teachers get paid a lot more than other subjects, especially in challenging schools.

Some school districts have such a teacher shortage problem that they are giving out emergency certifications, and I bet you many of such teachers aren't fully qualified to teach in STEM subjects.

The purpose of H1s work visa is to fill gaps/shortages in the workforce. We have a shortage of qualified STEM teachers. Unless you are willing to raise your taxes to offer better pay to more qualified STEM teachers, your options are either to hire a foreigner or just live with subar STEM teachers. Or I guess you could home school.

How many of you would encourage your HS aged DCs to major in STEM to teach in public school?

+ 1.

We need to fill the gap in the workforce so that we do not fall behind. We also need to pay STEM teachers a lot more so that the public schools are an attractive opportunity.

Should not be a debate. Increase the pay. More people will migrate to the jobs Better qualified people. There is absolutely no reason for h1b

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since MCPS has a chronic problem with an acute shortage of quality teachers in almost all subjects but specifically Maths, Science and Foreign Language, we should think about using H1B visa program to get qualified teachers to fill the gaps. What do you think? World class teachers or not?

Re “How ‘Hire American’ Could Affect a World of Tech Workers” (news article, April 19):

The problem with the H-1B visa program is that it depresses the price of tech jobs, which in turn lowers the desirability for tech jobs and the incentive for American students to seek math and science education.

This would be true to some extent even if the system weren’t abused, but The New York Times and other outlets have shown that employment companies are gaming the lottery system and being used not just to fill a critical opening but also to replace entire departments of citizens who are already working.

The invisible hand is supposed to respond to a shortage by raising the price. Bringing in substitute labor from foreign countries lowers the price. I don’t know what President Trump has in mind, but if companies are allowed to lower the price of tech jobs, the American work force will continue its decline as a leader in math and science.

Agree completely.

And I believe this is true for both legal and illegal immigration. The reason illegal immigration continues is because companies get to pay people less for the same job and workers still take the job. If there were no workers taking these jobs, wages would go up.

Same thing applies here. If we rely on H1Bs, conditions worsen for qualified candidates here in the IS. I have family who has come here on H1B visas. They work more hours and for lower pay than citizens would accept, simply just to have the chance to come to this country. Understandable, but not great for IS workers.

I agree, that H1b needs reform. Raising the wages, may raise the overall standard of living. But given that the US, is a global economy, it will not make us economically viable. The situation will end up being worse, with companies not being able to compete. Double edged sword. Prices should be driven by market economics. Unless Americans are willing to compete at global wages, companies will find ways to outsource. There are so many avenues to do that. And the wages/taxes won't even be spent here

Curious as to who is spreading rumors that H1B actually gets paid lower. Did you know that the offered salary needs to go through DOL and they have to ensure that these potential candidates are paid at a market rate? If they don't then DOL will not approve the application and the employer will need to revise to ensure market rate is given. If people are saying that H1B is still paid lower after this process then something is wrong with DOL. Does anyone actually have additional information on how they found out that H1B employees are paid less?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since MCPS has a chronic problem with an acute shortage of quality teachers in almost all subjects but specifically Maths, Science and Foreign Language, we should think about using H1B visa program to get qualified teachers to fill the gaps. What do you think? World class teachers or not?

Re “How ‘Hire American’ Could Affect a World of Tech Workers” (news article, April 19):

The problem with the H-1B visa program is that it depresses the price of tech jobs, which in turn lowers the desirability for tech jobs and the incentive for American students to seek math and science education.

This would be true to some extent even if the system weren’t abused, but The New York Times and other outlets have shown that employment companies are gaming the lottery system and being used not just to fill a critical opening but also to replace entire departments of citizens who are already working.

The invisible hand is supposed to respond to a shortage by raising the price. Bringing in substitute labor from foreign countries lowers the price. I don’t know what President Trump has in mind, but if companies are allowed to lower the price of tech jobs, the American work force will continue its decline as a leader in math and science.

Agree completely.

And I believe this is true for both legal and illegal immigration. The reason illegal immigration continues is because companies get to pay people less for the same job and workers still take the job. If there were no workers taking these jobs, wages would go up.

Same thing applies here. If we rely on H1Bs, conditions worsen for qualified candidates here in the IS. I have family who has come here on H1B visas. They work more hours and for lower pay than citizens would accept, simply just to have the chance to come to this country. Understandable, but not great for IS workers.

I agree, that H1b needs reform. Raising the wages, may raise the overall standard of living. But given that the US, is a global economy, it will not make us economically viable. The situation will end up being worse, with companies not being able to compete. Double edged sword. Prices should be driven by market economics. Unless Americans are willing to compete at global wages, companies will find ways to outsource. There are so many avenues to do that. And the wages/taxes won't even be spent here

If they paid more then the teaching profession would become more competitive. I didn't want to graduate and then make 35k teaching when I could go anywhere else and make 50k easily (talking 1st years salaries here). Plus all the red tape and helicopter parents.

I'd be willing to pay teachers more if they worked a normal 12 months a year schedule.

Anonymous wrote:Why is this devolving into an argument about the use of H1B in the tech sector? OP is talking about teachers - we have a dearth of them especially in the STEM fields. STEM teachers get paid a lot more than other subjects, especially in challenging schools.

Some school districts have such a teacher shortage problem that they are giving out emergency certifications, and I bet you many of such teachers aren't fully qualified to teach in STEM subjects.

The purpose of H1s work visa is to fill gaps/shortages in the workforce. We have a shortage of qualified STEM teachers. Unless you are willing to raise your taxes to offer better pay to more qualified STEM teachers, your options are either to hire a foreigner or just live with subar STEM teachers. Or I guess you could home school.

How many of you would encourage your HS aged DCs to major in STEM to teach in public school?

+ 1.

We need to fill the gap in the workforce so that we do not fall behind. We also need to pay STEM teachers a lot more so that the public schools are an attractive opportunity.

Why is this devolving into an argument about the use of H1B in the tech sector? OP is talking about teachers - we have a dearth of them especially in the STEM fields. STEM teachers get paid a lot more than other subjects, especially in challenging schools.

Some school districts have such a teacher shortage problem that they are giving out emergency certifications, and I bet you many of such teachers aren't fully qualified to teach in STEM subjects.

The purpose of H1s work visa is to fill gaps/shortages in the workforce. We have a shortage of qualified STEM teachers. Unless you are willing to raise your taxes to offer better pay to more qualified STEM teachers, your options are either to hire a foreigner or just live with subar STEM teachers. Or I guess you could home school.

How many of you would encourage your HS aged DCs to major in STEM to teach in public school?

Anonymous wrote:Re “How ‘Hire American’ Could Affect a World of Tech Workers” (news article, April 19):

The problem with the H-1B visa program is that it depresses the price of tech jobs, which in turn lowers the desirability for tech jobs and the incentive for American students to seek math and science education.

This would be true to some extent even if the system weren’t abused, but The New York Times and other outlets have shown that employment companies are gaming the lottery system and being used not just to fill a critical opening but also to replace entire departments of citizens who are already working.

The invisible hand is supposed to respond to a shortage by raising the price. Bringing in substitute labor from foreign countries lowers the price. I don’t know what President Trump has in mind, but if companies are allowed to lower the price of tech jobs, the American work force will continue its decline as a leader in math and science.

In a global economy, if there is a need for tech jobs, then there will be a demand for tech jobs. When a lot of people are trained for tech jobs the salary will go down. US is part of a global economy. It has to compete with the world and it has to compete both in innovation and salary. Our first failure is our education system, that needs to be fixed. It is too late for US to pull out from a global economy and pay exorbitant salaries to US tech workers for doing the work that requires some competency in Math and Science. That ship has sailed baby!

I will ignore your comment about Trump. His 100 days have clearly demonstrated that he is incompetent.

I wish tech workers got over the mindset that they are deserving of high salaries. They will be paid what the global market decides they should get based on their skill, training, availability, location and demand.

Finally, the quality of Math and Science education in K-12 is subpar. This is because of curriculum as well as dearth of qualified teachers. This is making students get behind in these fields as compared to the rest of the world. If we do not fix this by getting qualified teachers from around the world, then we will continue to have a country of underemployed and unemployable adults.

Asian countries employ English speaking teachers from US and UK all the time to teach English to their students. We need to do the same with Math, Science and foreign language teachers or we will lag further behind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since MCPS has a chronic problem with an acute shortage of quality teachers in almost all subjects but specifically Maths, Science and Foreign Language, we should think about using H1B visa program to get qualified teachers to fill the gaps. What do you think? World class teachers or not?

Re “How ‘Hire American’ Could Affect a World of Tech Workers” (news article, April 19):

The problem with the H-1B visa program is that it depresses the price of tech jobs, which in turn lowers the desirability for tech jobs and the incentive for American students to seek math and science education.

This would be true to some extent even if the system weren’t abused, but The New York Times and other outlets have shown that employment companies are gaming the lottery system and being used not just to fill a critical opening but also to replace entire departments of citizens who are already working.

The invisible hand is supposed to respond to a shortage by raising the price. Bringing in substitute labor from foreign countries lowers the price. I don’t know what President Trump has in mind, but if companies are allowed to lower the price of tech jobs, the American work force will continue its decline as a leader in math and science.

Agree completely.

And I believe this is true for both legal and illegal immigration. The reason illegal immigration continues is because companies get to pay people less for the same job and workers still take the job. If there were no workers taking these jobs, wages would go up.

Same thing applies here. If we rely on H1Bs, conditions worsen for qualified candidates here in the IS. I have family who has come here on H1B visas. They work more hours and for lower pay than citizens would accept, simply just to have the chance to come to this country. Understandable, but not great for IS workers.

Anonymous wrote:Since MCPS has a chronic problem with an acute shortage of quality teachers in almost all subjects but specifically Maths, Science and Foreign Language, we should think about using H1B visa program to get qualified teachers to fill the gaps. What do you think? World class teachers or not?

Re “How ‘Hire American’ Could Affect a World of Tech Workers” (news article, April 19):

The problem with the H-1B visa program is that it depresses the price of tech jobs, which in turn lowers the desirability for tech jobs and the incentive for American students to seek math and science education.

This would be true to some extent even if the system weren’t abused, but The New York Times and other outlets have shown that employment companies are gaming the lottery system and being used not just to fill a critical opening but also to replace entire departments of citizens who are already working.

The invisible hand is supposed to respond to a shortage by raising the price. Bringing in substitute labor from foreign countries lowers the price. I don’t know what President Trump has in mind, but if companies are allowed to lower the price of tech jobs, the American work force will continue its decline as a leader in math and science.

There is a dearth of teachers who are well versed in Math content. Pedagogy is easy to pick up - Math content? Not so much,

Get the H1B teachers, train them about the expectations of US school systems and let's bridge the real "Achievement Gap". The one between the US and rest of the world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO.

I work with lots of H-1Bs. Very nice people, some very smart but the ability to read, speak, write, and understand English is never as good as a person raised in the US even if that person was the lowest performer in college. Your child is far better off with that person than the the H-1B as a teacher.

So the worst qualified native English speaker would be a far better teacher than the best qualified foreigner just because their English skills are better? That's a ridiculous statement, particularly in science and math.

+1. Plenty of countries outside the US have English as a native language or primary language of the school system. To say their ability to speak, read and understand English is never as good as someone in the US is so ignorant (perhaps PP wouldn't have made such a dumb statement if he had better teachers).

+2

Apparently having an accent means not being able to read, write or understand English. Even if that person's entire education, all that reading, writing, and understanding, was conducted in English.

+1. Makes you sick isn't it? Like English is a yardstick for intelligence and competence. FYI..I speak very good English but have an accent. I can bet my English is better grammatically, than most people I deal with day to day. Makes me cringe when I hear bad grammar, wrong tense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO.

I work with lots of H-1Bs. Very nice people, some very smart but the ability to read, speak, write, and understand English is never as good as a person raised in the US even if that person was the lowest performer in college. Your child is far better off with that person than the the H-1B as a teacher.

So the worst qualified native English speaker would be a far better teacher than the best qualified foreigner just because their English skills are better? That's a ridiculous statement, particularly in science and math.

+1. Plenty of countries outside the US have English as a native language or primary language of the school system. To say their ability to speak, read and understand English is never as good as someone in the US is so ignorant (perhaps PP wouldn't have made such a dumb statement if he had better teachers).

+2

Apparently having an accent means not being able to read, write or understand English. Even if that person's entire education, all that reading, writing, and understanding, was conducted in English.