Anonymous wrote:I found the Fairfax County Appraisal site that shows property assessments (values) dropping in McLean -0.475 and Great Falls -2.83%, up 0.29% in Vienna (I think this is different from the Town of Vienna) and up 0.68% for the whole County. Just to help see it all in perspective. http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news2/2017-real-estate-assessments/ If you go down the page there's a map that shows the different districts and the change in assessments. Not good news for my retirement plans.

The SAT numbers are interesting. My son is taking ACTs this morning and I hear that more and more kids are taking ACTs rather than SATs. I don't know what effect this has. Also many kdis who don't plan to go to college or want to go to the local Virginia schools don't have to take SATs or ACTs. How much difference could that be having? It was expensive and a lot of work to prepare for these tests (my daughter took the SATs two years ago).

Assessments in most McLean single-family neighborhoods in 22101 were up this year, so if the overall assessments were down in McLean it may be due to larger declines in the assessments in homes and condos in 22102.

I found the Fairfax County Appraisal site that shows property assessments (values) dropping in McLean -0.475 and Great Falls -2.83%, up 0.29% in Vienna (I think this is different from the Town of Vienna) and up 0.68% for the whole County. Just to help see it all in perspective. http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news2/2017-real-estate-assessments/ If you go down the page there's a map that shows the different districts and the change in assessments. Not good news for my retirement plans.

The SAT numbers are interesting. My son is taking ACTs this morning and I hear that more and more kids are taking ACTs rather than SATs. I don't know what effect this has. Also many kdis who don't plan to go to college or want to go to the local Virginia schools don't have to take SATs or ACTs. How much difference could that be having? It was expensive and a lot of work to prepare for these tests (my daughter took the SATs two years ago).

Anonymous wrote:"Regular"? Seriously?

My kid has an incurable medical illness requiring her to be special ed.
She's not a "regular" kid? So what, she's "irregular"?

And we wonder where our kids, born without prejudice, learn this crap.

Are you really getting upset about the use of the word regular? No one would call your child irregular. She said regular meaning not special ed, ESOL...No one is trying to insult your child or any special needs child. Op wasn't even complaining about special needs funding, so I'm not quite sure how this became a thread accusing op of not being tolerant and teaching prejudice. Loudoun County spends more on neurotypical kids than FCPS spends on neurotypical kids. OP is asking whether anyone else finds it concerning that FCPS is spending less on these kids than a neighboring county. This is no different than people who are concerned about FCPS spending less on teachers than neighboring counties. Both of these things could eventually have an adverse impact on the education of our kids. Op had to make a distinction between special ed and non special ed because to just say "FCPS spends less on kids than Loudoun" is not true with respect to special ed and ESOL kids.

Anonymous wrote:Over the past ten years FY08 - FY18 (note fiscal years end/begin June 30)

Spending on General Education students (this includes ESOL) has declined by 7% in real (inflation adjusted) dollars. In FY08 FCPS spent $11,400 on a GenEd student - in real terms today that is $10,600.

Spending on Special Education students has increased by 9% in real (inflation adjusted) dollars. In FY08, FCPS spent $20,200 on a SpecEd student - in real terms today that is $21,800.

There were 4,015 unaccompanied children resettled in Fairfax County over the past 4 years (https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/unaccompanied-children-released-to-sponsors-by-county). At an average cost of $16,390 - ($12,640 avg cost/GenEd student + $3,750 ESOL expense) that is an incremental cost to FCPS of at least $66M every year.

Fairfax County is very generous to Special Needs children and to refugees and immigrants - and I am proud of that generosity.

Is there a point at which spending differences on various groups becomes inequitable or inappropriate and/or unsustainable? Are people leaving FCPS (and Fairfax County) to go to Loudoun, Arlington, Montgomery Counties seeking more money spent on Regular Kids? Loudoun population grew 3% last year by 11,386 residents - Fairfax added zero.

Can FCPS become ever more efficient, to help ensure that the money that is available is effectively spent? If people move out and businesses don't relocate here (or move away), the 'burden' of paying for school falls on fewer and fewer households. House values in McLean, Great Falls and Vienna are declining - in much of the rest of the County, house values are stagnating.

How can we, as a community, balance the needs of various groups and remain an attractive option for people looking for good schools for their kids, reasonable taxes, good services, safe neighborhoods and a place they might be able to retire? What choices must be made - especially when the economists and budget analysts look forward and estimate future growth at 2% per year?

There is a lot of gloom and doom in this post, all trying to support the hypothesis that more money should be spent on "regular kids" and less on special needs and ESOL students.

However, FCPS test scores (SATs) are still the highest in the region - higher than Arlington, Montgomery, and Loudoun. Property values have been rising in McLean and Vienna, not falling. Arlington has a higher percentage of FARMS students than Fairfax, and lower SAT scores. Loudoun has a lower percentage of FARMS students than Fairfax, and lower SAT scores.

If you think more rapid growth will help, you have to think about who is moving in and what demands they will make on the system. A typical "regular" family with multiple kids in the public schools will make heavier demands than a single taxpayer without kids. Arlington hasn't been able to keep up with growing enrollment and has a crisis on its hands in terms of dealing with high school capacity. Kids there very well could be attending a 4,000 student high school in a few years, or going to school in morning and evening shifts. Loudoun spends enormous resources opening new schools to keep up with the growing enrollment, but has fairly vanilla academic programs with few of the special programs available in Fairfax.

I agree with focusing on the administration and contractor spending. What happened to the Auditor General who was fired last year? We need someone to watch over the School Board and Administration. The Administration just gives their retired buddies contracts and tells the School Board it is necessary spending. Keep spending on the basics and cut out the waste.

Anonymous wrote:Over the past ten years FY08 - FY18 (note fiscal years end/begin June 30)

Spending on General Education students (this includes ESOL) has declined by 7% in real (inflation adjusted) dollars. In FY08 FCPS spent $11,400 on a GenEd student - in real terms today that is $10,600.

Spending on Special Education students has increased by 9% in real (inflation adjusted) dollars. In FY08, FCPS spent $20,200 on a SpecEd student - in real terms today that is $21,800.

There were 4,015 unaccompanied children resettled in Fairfax County over the past 4 years (https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/unaccompanied-children-released-to-sponsors-by-county). At an average cost of $16,390 - ($12,640 avg cost/GenEd student + $3,750 ESOL expense) that is an incremental cost to FCPS of at least $66M every year.

Fairfax County is very generous to Special Needs children and to refugees and immigrants - and I am proud of that generosity.

Is there a point at which spending differences on various groups becomes inequitable or inappropriate and/or unsustainable? Are people leaving FCPS (and Fairfax County) to go to Loudoun, Arlington, Montgomery Counties seeking more money spent on Regular Kids? Loudoun population grew 3% last year by 11,386 residents - Fairfax added zero.

Can FCPS become ever more efficient, to help ensure that the money that is available is effectively spent? If people move out and businesses don't relocate here (or move away), the 'burden' of paying for school falls on fewer and fewer households. House values in McLean, Great Falls and Vienna are declining - in much of the rest of the County, house values are stagnating.

How can we, as a community, balance the needs of various groups and remain an attractive option for people looking for good schools for their kids, reasonable taxes, good services, safe neighborhoods and a place they might be able to retire? What choices must be made - especially when the economists and budget analysts look forward and estimate future growth at 2% per year?

I am actually OK with spending on special needs kids and esol. I DO resent spending on all the not so special snowflakes in AAP and language immersion. But even more, I resent the spending on all the things that have nothing to do with kids. Fairfax is not a lean mean fighting machine - it is a bloated bureaucracy where teaching and learning are at the bottom of a very large, fat totem pole. Take a look at admin salaries, and the salaries of the gadjillion people who work in non-teaching jobs in non-school buildings. No one talks about cutting them, because you don't see them or know about them, and they are pretty much the ones in charge of deciding who gets cut. And how about the money Fairfax pays to outside consultants? It pays enough to contractors to fund many teaching positions, and moreover, a lot of the time those contractors are doing things that FCPS didn't really need. They have whole departments where they pay people to be in charge of developing curriculum, but then they hire an outside company and pay hundreds of thousands for a group of outsiders who are no more qualified than FCPS teachers and administrators to come in and tell us what to do. If anyone is going to cut services for children, we need to first shine a light on central admin and contractors. That's where the waste and inefficiency are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you begrudging money spent on kids who need extra help for whatever reason?

Those of us who have "regular" kids who don't need extra services (which cost extra money) should thank our lucky stars. And really, FCPS does a great job educating those regular kids, so i have no complaints.

+1. Guessing quite a few posters here don't even live in Fairfax.

I live in Fairfax, and don't agree that they do a great job. My son had 30 kids in his kindergarten class, and 29 in first. He did not have a good experience. His teachers complained about having so many kids in the class and said they couldn't do any better with such big classes. I have a friend whose kid is in a class of 20 in a language immersion program. They are working a year above grade level in math. She doesn't even pay taxes, as she rents, whereas I own and pay plenty. Something is wrong with this picture.

Over the past ten years FY08 - FY18 (note fiscal years end/begin June 30)

Spending on General Education students (this includes ESOL) has declined by 7% in real (inflation adjusted) dollars. In FY08 FCPS spent $11,400 on a GenEd student - in real terms today that is $10,600.

Spending on Special Education students has increased by 9% in real (inflation adjusted) dollars. In FY08, FCPS spent $20,200 on a SpecEd student - in real terms today that is $21,800.

There were 4,015 unaccompanied children resettled in Fairfax County over the past 4 years (https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/unaccompanied-children-released-to-sponsors-by-county). At an average cost of $16,390 - ($12,640 avg cost/GenEd student + $3,750 ESOL expense) that is an incremental cost to FCPS of at least $66M every year.

Fairfax County is very generous to Special Needs children and to refugees and immigrants - and I am proud of that generosity.

Is there a point at which spending differences on various groups becomes inequitable or inappropriate and/or unsustainable? Are people leaving FCPS (and Fairfax County) to go to Loudoun, Arlington, Montgomery Counties seeking more money spent on Regular Kids? Loudoun population grew 3% last year by 11,386 residents - Fairfax added zero.

Can FCPS become ever more efficient, to help ensure that the money that is available is effectively spent? If people move out and businesses don't relocate here (or move away), the 'burden' of paying for school falls on fewer and fewer households. House values in McLean, Great Falls and Vienna are declining - in much of the rest of the County, house values are stagnating.

How can we, as a community, balance the needs of various groups and remain an attractive option for people looking for good schools for their kids, reasonable taxes, good services, safe neighborhoods and a place they might be able to retire? What choices must be made - especially when the economists and budget analysts look forward and estimate future growth at 2% per year?

"Regular"? Seriously?

My kid has an incurable medical illness requiring her to be special ed.
She's not a "regular" kid? So what, she's "irregular"?

And we wonder where our kids, born without prejudice, learn this crap.

Really? Then why is AAP always listed as one of the items to potentially cut whenever FCPS goes through its annual "we're broke" spiel? In addition, one thing AAP kids absolutely get is the freedom to choose their base school or a center - even when both schools offer LLIV. A choice of school is something Gen Ed kids do NOT get.

It's listed as one of the items because FCPS knows that once the parents see it on the list of cuts, they'll mobilize and pressure the Board of Supervisors to fully fund the school budget. Ditto for cutting 4th grade orchestra programs and quite a few other things. It's political, and it usually works.

If the Feds are going to ship 1,000's of high needs minors, they could at least cough up some dough to accompany them. Total bullshit.

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

OP was comparing spending by FCPS on non special needs kids to Loudoun County's spending on non special needs kids. I don't think OP was complaining that FCPS was spending too much on special needs kids. There are other services that affect funding for "regular" kids than just special needs funding. You can fully support special needs spending and wonder why "regular" kids in FCPS don't get the same level of resources as those in surrounding counties.

This is why they don't want to allow charters here. They are required to spend on esol and special needs, so the money would have to come from somewhere. People are starting to leave for private schools, even those who I thought were die hard public school supporters. But not everyone who would benefit from another type of school can afford it. I wish that we had choices here, but we don't because of fcps greed and arrogance

Anonymous wrote:"Why thought should Fairfax be spending less on general ed students than Loudoun?"

At one end - less ESOL and FARMs kids.
At the other end - maybe fewer people with the money to get their kid tested for various things if the discussion is sub-optimal but not dire.

Fairfax also has a higher cost for special ed per student and more special ed students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

Problem is--that we also spend extra money on the AAP programs. The only ones that don't get extra are the "gen ed"......

This. I have no problem spending extra on special needs kids. AAP kids are *not* special needs.

For the love of God. AAP kids get LESS than general ed kids. LESS. Less than all other kids. Find something else to be upset about.

Really? Then why is AAP always listed as one of the items to potentially cut whenever FCPS goes through its annual "we're broke" spiel? In addition, one thing AAP kids absolutely get is the freedom to choose their base school or a center - even when both schools offer LLIV. A choice of school is something Gen Ed kids do NOT get.

There is a list of about 100 possible cuts this year and the only one they thought would save any money was changing the class size for AAP students. The proposal was to increase the class size greater for AAP than general ed making them officially unequal in terms of funding. It already is unequal in size because principals already try to give their additional teachers to general ed and students in those classes rarely leave for special ed or ESOL services and never leave to go with the AART. You are correct they do get that freedom, but there isn't an additional cost associated with it.