Anonymous
02/17/2017 07:34
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This week, we spoke to our conservative DCPS principal about opting out. Predictably, he argued that taking the PARCC provides invaluable practice in the standardized test taking your 21st Century American student can't escape.
Test-taking practice is a lousy reason for having the high-stakes testing tail used in earlier grades to wag the curricular dog. Kids can access practice tests on-line if they are approaching their first standardized test. I've known kids whose first standardized test was the high school graduation test, and they did fine. Ditto for the Finnish kids who don't experience the kinds of silly tests we use, but then knock it out of the park on the PISA tests.
If you care about opt-out, you need to attend the OSSE listening sessions about their state plan and let your voice be heard.
Maybe. OSSE and DCPS don't have a great track record on being honest players in listening to parents' voices. Many of us who participated in the public input "sessions" to give input to the boundary review in 2013 and the search for a chancellor came away feeling badly used. Pretty clearly, the decisions made didn't take our views into account. These matters has been decided by the Mayor and the OSSE and DCPS leadership prior to the sessions. I feel like we have every reason to expect the same thing to happen this time around.
I can't stand Trump or Betsy DeVos, but if they succeed in curtailing DoE authority to punish states, the District and local communities for failing to serve up 95% compliance with state mandated standardized testing at the school level, I'll cheer. The system isn't remotely democratic in what should be a free society. Looks like the administration will seek to renegotiate ESSA in 2018.
Anonymous
02/17/2017 00:07
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:I think the PARCC is not perfect but has some value. Otherwise you cannot really compare school to school or schools in different states. You need to have some common parameters to know what is going on in different schools. Also, reading and math skills are critical to future success. This might not be a big deal to your upper middle class kid but it is critical to the vast majority of kids in DCPS. Maybe you can keep your kid home. It certainly won't affect your child but it might be nice for all DCPS kids if everyone just took the test and we ended up with a high participation rate and scores that will help D.C. figure out how to do better.
The evidence simply does not indicate that high PARCC participation rates and scores will in fact help DC and the states figure out how "to do better" in spending finite ed resources. It's worth considering that the world's highest performing public school systems, including those in the Nordic countries, the Netherlands and Singapore, outperform the US by a wide margin in math without giving standardized tests to pre-teens, or spending as much per capita on instruction. The enthusiasm of politicians for data points should not drive our ed agenda.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 23:59
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the PARCC is not perfect but has some value. Otherwise you cannot really compare school to school or schools in different states. You need to have some common parameters to know what is going on in different schools. Also, reading and math skills are critical to future success. This might not be a big deal to your upper middle class kid but it is critical to the vast majority of kids in DCPS. Maybe you can keep your kid home. It certainly won't affect your child but it might be nice for all DCPS kids if everyone just took the test and we ended up with a high participation rate and scores that will help D.C. figure out how to do better.
It's a free country and we should be free to opt out if we don't support the corporate reform agenda.
Nevertheless she persisted. Let's resist.
This country's looking a little less free with each passing week.
We should be able to opt out for whatever reasons, including those we do not care to articulate. The freedom to legally opt out should come with the freedom to do so without being called names.
Nobody has to convince me that public schools put parents of proven "advanced" learners (e.g. Johns Hopkins CTY campers who cleared a SCAT test score bar) under more pressure than others not to opt out.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 20:35
Subject: Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't you want your kid to take the PARCC? It's a good exam and sets a high academic standard for our schools.
On the very, very small chance that this isn't trolling...because the tests are meaningless, invalid, and distract from learning for weeks or months at a time. They're just one of a great many examples of the privatization of public education.
No, not a troll. Have you taken the exam? I have taken about 30 sample questions from the English and math tests. They're good! There is no way to do well on the English portion without being well read. Similarly, a student couldn't do well on the math portion without having a deep, fundamental understanding of mathematical principles. Ironically, with the PARCC, it is possible to know, for certain, whether a school is actually teaching children valuable skills that not related to just doing well on tests.
Last year's results were very telling, with supposedly good schools that showed poor results. The exam reveals how well differentiated learning is working at elementary schools. If all students do poorly, well, that's one thing. But if there is a small subset of students who perform exemplary in an otherwise low-score school, that means that when the high-scoring kids get to middle school, as a parent, I can be confident they will be just as knowledgeable / prepared as kids who went to other, overall higher scoring schools. And if we move to a different state, which also uses Common Core and PARCC, I know my kid will have learned the same things as the other kids and wouldn't be behind.
The exam is rigorous. It cannot be passed just by memorization or by being a good test taker.
As far as I can tell, the only parents against the exam are those: (a) whose children are not able to well on the exam; (b) who have not taken the time to actually review and try the exam themselves; and/or (c) who, well, are not able to recognize the value of the exam, because they do not have sufficient expertise themselves. For example, a former liberal arts major may not have the background needed to recognize the value in the math test (which is really well done). To these parents, I ask, before ruining the best thing to happen to DC schools, make sure your protest is at least informed.
No need to play the "as far as I can tell" troll game. Plenty of folks have given plenty of reasons why they oppose these latest money and privatization grabs, but you aren't going to consider their reasons because you don't want to.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 18:30
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:I think the PARCC is not perfect but has some value. Otherwise you cannot really compare school to school or schools in different states. You need to have some common parameters to know what is going on in different schools. Also, reading and math skills are critical to future success. This might not be a big deal to your upper middle class kid but it is critical to the vast majority of kids in DCPS. Maybe you can keep your kid home. It certainly won't affect your child but it might be nice for all DCPS kids if everyone just took the test and we ended up with a high participation rate and scores that will help D.C. figure out how to do better.
It's a free country and we should be free to opt out if we don't support the corporate reform agenda.
Nevertheless she persisted. Let's resist.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 14:40
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
I think the PARCC is not perfect but has some value. Otherwise you cannot really compare school to school or schools in different states. You need to have some common parameters to know what is going on in different schools. Also, reading and math skills are critical to future success. This might not be a big deal to your upper middle class kid but it is critical to the vast majority of kids in DCPS. Maybe you can keep your kid home. It certainly won't affect your child but it might be nice for all DCPS kids if everyone just took the test and we ended up with a high participation rate and scores that will help D.C. figure out how to do better.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 09:28
Subject: Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't you want your kid to take the PARCC? It's a good exam and sets a high academic standard for our schools.
On the very, very small chance that this isn't trolling...because the tests are meaningless, invalid, and distract from learning for weeks or months at a time. They're just one of a great many examples of the privatization of public education.
No, not a troll. Have you taken the exam? I have taken about 30 sample questions from the English and math tests. They're good! There is no way to do well on the English portion without being well read. Similarly, a student couldn't do well on the math portion without having a deep, fundamental understanding of mathematical principles. Ironically, with the PARCC, it is possible to know, for certain, whether a school is actually teaching children valuable skills that not related to just doing well on tests.
Last year's results were very telling, with supposedly good schools that showed poor results. The exam reveals how well differentiated learning is working at elementary schools. If all students do poorly, well, that's one thing. But if there is a small subset of students who perform exemplary in an otherwise low-score school, that means that when the high-scoring kids get to middle school, as a parent, I can be confident they will be just as knowledgeable / prepared as kids who went to other, overall higher scoring schools. And if we move to a different state, which also uses Common Core and PARCC, I know my kid will have learned the same things as the other kids and wouldn't be behind.
The exam is rigorous. It cannot be passed just by memorization or by being a good test taker.
As far as I can tell, the only parents against the exam are those: (a) whose children are not able to well on the exam; (b) who have not taken the time to actually review and try the exam themselves; and/or (c) who, well, are not able to recognize the value of the exam, because they do not have sufficient expertise themselves. For example, a former liberal arts major may not have the background needed to recognize the value in the math test (which is really well done). To these parents, I ask, before ruining the best thing to happen to DC schools, make sure your protest is at least informed.
OP again. To each her own, no paternalism needed. I've reviewed models of the 3rd grade exam on-line and decided that I don't want my child to take it. I strongly prefer the SCAT for her (mainly because it does the job in an hour, and leads to access to CTY camps). I don't want to protest anything, I just don't want my super curious and creative, bilingual and biliterate kid anywhere near the PARCC. I fail to see value in bullying parents and educators who wish to opt out for whatever reasons (if 95% of the students in your school don't submit to this particular test, you'll pay!). What, exactly, are we "ruining" by marching to our own drummers in small numbers? Apparently, hardly anybody in DC opts out. By contrast, in NY, epicenter of the opt-out movement, 20% of families walked away in 2016.
If the exam is as well-crafted as you claim, why aren't private schools serving the rich beating down the door to gain access?
I just find your attitude extremely grating. You're more interested in creating a custom experience for your own snowflake, than you are in actually changing anything. Have you ever stopped to think about the poor message you're sending her: "you're so smart, you don't need to do what the other kids do!" How is that going to serve her in life?
If you truly cared, you'd be out there advocating for other changes to the curriculum or education policy. But you seem far more interested in making a public statement (via your child) that your child is too smart for PARCC.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 08:59
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:This week, we spoke to our conservative DCPS principal about opting out. Predictably, he argued that taking the PARCC provides invaluable practice in the standardized test taking your 21st Century American student can't escape.
Test-taking practice is a lousy reason for having the high-stakes testing tail used in earlier grades to wag the curricular dog. Kids can access practice tests on-line if they are approaching their first standardized test. I've known kids whose first standardized test was the high school graduation test, and they did fine. Ditto for the Finnish kids who don't experience the kinds of silly tests we use, but then knock it out of the park on the PISA tests.
If you care about opt-out, you need to attend the OSSE listening sessions about their state plan and let your voice be heard.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 08:49
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
This week, we spoke to our conservative DCPS principal about opting out. Predictably, he argued that taking the PARCC provides invaluable practice in the standardized test taking your 21st Century American student can't escape.
Test-taking practice is a lousy reason for having the high-stakes testing tail used in earlier grades to wag the curricular dog. Kids can access practice tests on-line if they are approaching their first standardized test. I've known kids whose first standardized test was the high school graduation test, and they did fine. Ditto for the Finnish kids who don't experience the kinds of silly tests we use, but then knock it out of the park on the PISA tests.
Test-taking practice is a lousy reason for having the high-stakes testing tail used in earlier grades to wag the curricular dog. Kids can access practice tests on-line if they are approaching their first standardized test. I've known kids whose first standardized test was the high school graduation test, and they did fine. Ditto for the Finnish kids who don't experience the kinds of silly tests we use, but then knock it out of the park on the PISA tests.
Anonymous
02/16/2017 08:02
Subject: Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't you want your kid to take the PARCC? It's a good exam and sets a high academic standard for our schools.
On the very, very small chance that this isn't trolling...because the tests are meaningless, invalid, and distract from learning for weeks or months at a time. They're just one of a great many examples of the privatization of public education.
No, not a troll. Have you taken the exam? I have taken about 30 sample questions from the English and math tests. They're good! There is no way to do well on the English portion without being well read. Similarly, a student couldn't do well on the math portion without having a deep, fundamental understanding of mathematical principles. Ironically, with the PARCC, it is possible to know, for certain, whether a school is actually teaching children valuable skills that not related to just doing well on tests.
Last year's results were very telling, with supposedly good schools that showed poor results. The exam reveals how well differentiated learning is working at elementary schools. If all students do poorly, well, that's one thing. But if there is a small subset of students who perform exemplary in an otherwise low-score school, that means that when the high-scoring kids get to middle school, as a parent, I can be confident they will be just as knowledgeable / prepared as kids who went to other, overall higher scoring schools. And if we move to a different state, which also uses Common Core and PARCC, I know my kid will have learned the same things as the other kids and wouldn't be behind.
The exam is rigorous. It cannot be passed just by memorization or by being a good test taker.
As far as I can tell, the only parents against the exam are those: (a) whose children are not able to well on the exam; (b) who have not taken the time to actually review and try the exam themselves; and/or (c) who, well, are not able to recognize the value of the exam, because they do not have sufficient expertise themselves. For example, a former liberal arts major may not have the background needed to recognize the value in the math test (which is really well done). To these parents, I ask, before ruining the best thing to happen to DC schools, make sure your protest is at least informed.
I think it just takes a lot of classroom time and attention for something that doesn't directly benefit students and doesn't allow teachers to teach as they see fit.
And it defines and prioritizes a narrow definition of what good teaching is. Who knows what social-emotional skills third graders are learning, whether they are developing their creativity, and learning to independently pursue topics that spark their interests?
Meanwhile, did you see the threads last year about teachers who just showed movies for the rest of the yesr post-parcc?
+100. Agree with all of this. Give school communities, and state and local governments a big say in defining and prioritizing what good teaching and learning is, and how teachers should be evaluated. If parents want to opt out of the PARCC, let them do so freely, as in Oregon, California and Colorado. Non-conformist parents can always coach their kids not to complete the test, or to purposely bomb it. Bullying families into cooperating with testing can easily backfire, as at Wilson in 2016.
Anonymous
02/15/2017 21:10
Subject: Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't you want your kid to take the PARCC? It's a good exam and sets a high academic standard for our schools.
On the very, very small chance that this isn't trolling...because the tests are meaningless, invalid, and distract from learning for weeks or months at a time. They're just one of a great many examples of the privatization of public education.
No, not a troll. Have you taken the exam? I have taken about 30 sample questions from the English and math tests. They're good! There is no way to do well on the English portion without being well read. Similarly, a student couldn't do well on the math portion without having a deep, fundamental understanding of mathematical principles. Ironically, with the PARCC, it is possible to know, for certain, whether a school is actually teaching children valuable skills that not related to just doing well on tests.
Last year's results were very telling, with supposedly good schools that showed poor results. The exam reveals how well differentiated learning is working at elementary schools. If all students do poorly, well, that's one thing. But if there is a small subset of students who perform exemplary in an otherwise low-score school, that means that when the high-scoring kids get to middle school, as a parent, I can be confident they will be just as knowledgeable / prepared as kids who went to other, overall higher scoring schools. And if we move to a different state, which also uses Common Core and PARCC, I know my kid will have learned the same things as the other kids and wouldn't be behind.
The exam is rigorous. It cannot be passed just by memorization or by being a good test taker.
As far as I can tell, the only parents against the exam are those: (a) whose children are not able to well on the exam; (b) who have not taken the time to actually review and try the exam themselves; and/or (c) who, well, are not able to recognize the value of the exam, because they do not have sufficient expertise themselves. For example, a former liberal arts major may not have the background needed to recognize the value in the math test (which is really well done). To these parents, I ask, before ruining the best thing to happen to DC schools, make sure your protest is at least informed.
OP again. To each her own, no paternalism needed. I've reviewed models of the 3rd grade exam on-line and decided that I don't want my child to take it. I strongly prefer the SCAT for her (mainly because it does the job in an hour, and leads to access to CTY camps). I don't want to protest anything, I just don't want my super curious and creative, bilingual and biliterate kid anywhere near the PARCC. I fail to see value in bullying parents and educators who wish to opt out for whatever reasons (if 95% of the students in your school don't submit to this particular test, you'll pay!). What, exactly, are we "ruining" by marching to our own drummers in small numbers? Apparently, hardly anybody in DC opts out. By contrast, in NY, epicenter of the opt-out movement, 20% of families walked away in 2016.
If the exam is as well-crafted as you claim, why aren't private schools serving the rich beating down the door to gain access?
Anonymous
02/15/2017 17:12
Subject: Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't you want your kid to take the PARCC? It's a good exam and sets a high academic standard for our schools.
On the very, very small chance that this isn't trolling...because the tests are meaningless, invalid, and distract from learning for weeks or months at a time. They're just one of a great many examples of the privatization of public education.
No, not a troll. Have you taken the exam? I have taken about 30 sample questions from the English and math tests. They're good! There is no way to do well on the English portion without being well read. Similarly, a student couldn't do well on the math portion without having a deep, fundamental understanding of mathematical principles. Ironically, with the PARCC, it is possible to know, for certain, whether a school is actually teaching children valuable skills that not related to just doing well on tests.
Last year's results were very telling, with supposedly good schools that showed poor results. The exam reveals how well differentiated learning is working at elementary schools. If all students do poorly, well, that's one thing. But if there is a small subset of students who perform exemplary in an otherwise low-score school, that means that when the high-scoring kids get to middle school, as a parent, I can be confident they will be just as knowledgeable / prepared as kids who went to other, overall higher scoring schools. And if we move to a different state, which also uses Common Core and PARCC, I know my kid will have learned the same things as the other kids and wouldn't be behind.
The exam is rigorous. It cannot be passed just by memorization or by being a good test taker.
As far as I can tell, the only parents against the exam are those: (a) whose children are not able to well on the exam; (b) who have not taken the time to actually review and try the exam themselves; and/or (c) who, well, are not able to recognize the value of the exam, because they do not have sufficient expertise themselves. For example, a former liberal arts major may not have the background needed to recognize the value in the math test (which is really well done). To these parents, I ask, before ruining the best thing to happen to DC schools, make sure your protest is at least informed.
I think it just takes a lot of classroom time and attention for something that doesn't directly benefit students and doesn't allow teachers to teach as they see fit.
And it defines and prioritizes a narrow definition of what good teaching is. Who knows what social-emotional skills third graders are learning, whether they are developing their creativity, and learning to independently pursue topics that spark their interests?
Meanwhile, did you see the threads last year about teachers who just showed movies for the rest of the yesr post-parcc?
Anonymous
02/15/2017 16:24
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
I was told that I could not opt out my student who attended a charter. The school was severely lacking in academics and I was afraid that it would affect his/her chances of attending selective high schools. Luckily, they did well. For that reason, opting out should be an option. I hope someone from OSSE is reading this and keeps this in mind.
Anonymous
02/15/2017 15:27
Subject: Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't you want your kid to take the PARCC? It's a good exam and sets a high academic standard for our schools.
On the very, very small chance that this isn't trolling...because the tests are meaningless, invalid, and distract from learning for weeks or months at a time. They're just one of a great many examples of the privatization of public education.
No, not a troll. Have you taken the exam? I have taken about 30 sample questions from the English and math tests. They're good! There is no way to do well on the English portion without being well read. Similarly, a student couldn't do well on the math portion without having a deep, fundamental understanding of mathematical principles. Ironically, with the PARCC, it is possible to know, for certain, whether a school is actually teaching children valuable skills that not related to just doing well on tests.
Last year's results were very telling, with supposedly good schools that showed poor results. The exam reveals how well differentiated learning is working at elementary schools. If all students do poorly, well, that's one thing. But if there is a small subset of students who perform exemplary in an otherwise low-score school, that means that when the high-scoring kids get to middle school, as a parent, I can be confident they will be just as knowledgeable / prepared as kids who went to other, overall higher scoring schools. And if we move to a different state, which also uses Common Core and PARCC, I know my kid will have learned the same things as the other kids and wouldn't be behind.
The exam is rigorous. It cannot be passed just by memorization or by being a good test taker.
As far as I can tell, the only parents against the exam are those: (a) whose children are not able to well on the exam; (b) who have not taken the time to actually review and try the exam themselves; and/or (c) who, well, are not able to recognize the value of the exam, because they do not have sufficient expertise themselves. For example, a former liberal arts major may not have the background needed to recognize the value in the math test (which is really well done). To these parents, I ask, before ruining the best thing to happen to DC schools, make sure your protest is at least informed.
Anonymous
02/15/2017 13:21
Subject: Re:Opting out of 2017 PARCC - Who has Experiencing with Opting Out? How did it work?
When PARCC scores were released over the summer, Henderson made statements to the WaPo and Washington Examiner stating that there is no provision in DC law permitting Wilson students (and presumably all others in testing grades in DC public schools) to opt out of city-administered standardized tests.
This seems to be DC's policy now under ESSA, because DC has not sought permission from the DoE to let students opt out, freely or under limited conditions, as a dozen states have. E.g., in PA, students can only opt out for religious reasons. That said, DC hasn't established penalties for non-compliance either, such as preventing individual students who opt out from advancing a grade, or graduating high school. From the perspective of an individual DCPS family, it sounds like opting out is really just a matter of keeping abreast of the attendance police, however you make that work between 3rd and 10th grades. The civic-minded may not want to hurt their school's PARCC performance by opting out, but that's a personal choice, vs. an obligation under the law.
This seems to be DC's policy now under ESSA, because DC has not sought permission from the DoE to let students opt out, freely or under limited conditions, as a dozen states have. E.g., in PA, students can only opt out for religious reasons. That said, DC hasn't established penalties for non-compliance either, such as preventing individual students who opt out from advancing a grade, or graduating high school. From the perspective of an individual DCPS family, it sounds like opting out is really just a matter of keeping abreast of the attendance police, however you make that work between 3rd and 10th grades. The civic-minded may not want to hurt their school's PARCC performance by opting out, but that's a personal choice, vs. an obligation under the law.