Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I also think the fake news component cannot be underestimated. There was a poster a couple days ago blathering on about abiding by "Marbury vs. Madison" not being required to uphold the Constitution, and now I'm hearing it more and more. They are getting their talking points from some extreme RW source and then bringing them into the mainstream. Trump could convert these people's homes into army barracks tomorrow, and they'd still find some reason to say it was Constitutional.

Wait, what? There is a RW meme saying that Marbury v Madison should be ignored?

Not exactly, but arguing that the precedent can be overturned. The argument is that MvM is not in the Constitution itself, so it's up for debate. The argument is that CBP officials who have sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution are not in violation of that oath if they believe that the Constitution does not require them to follow court orders. It would obviously have to be readjudicated by SCOTUS, but the point is it can be.

This is very, very dangerous. MvM codifies how the Judicial branch is able to place checks on the Executive branch. Americans do not realize the extent to which that precedent is the cornerstone of how Constitutional protections are upheld in this country, because it has never, ever been questioned before. I literally have never heard anyone bring up MvM in the context of current policy enforcement except for as a joke...because it's too sacred to the American system of government to be joked about. I have no idea how this idea will play out, but it's absolutely shocking to me that I've even heard it brought up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's one thing for me to sit here, in my home,candidate marvel at how our government is failing to operate properly. But people are being seriously affected by this. And the lawlessness is still going on. It's not stopping.

Isn't amazing that we have voters who supported a man on the message of law and order who himself has broken laws and norms on a regular basis and now leads the United States and is flouting laws and norms.

Business interests, emoluments, collusion with a foriegn state to steal information used in an election (ie Watergate on streoids), NDA's for Congressional staffers (is that even legal? They are paid out of the US treasury), separation of powers being eroded.

Seriously, when did all of this become okay? How did we digress so quickly - It's been 11 days now.

You would think it's amazing, but no, it doesn't surprise me. Trumpsters have shown they are ok with hypocrisy as long as it supports their cause. Racism, hate and love of money has taken away all reasoning and critical thinking skills.

I also think the fake news component cannot be underestimated. There was a poster a couple days ago blathering on about abiding by "Marbury vs. Madison" not being required to uphold the Constitution, and now I'm hearing it more and more. They are getting their talking points from some extreme RW source and then bringing them into the mainstream. Trump could convert these people's homes into army barracks tomorrow, and they'd still find some reason to say it was Constitutional.

Wait, what? There is a RW meme saying that Marbury v Madison should be ignored?

There were definitely several posters or one very vocal poster saying that, over the weekend, on this forum. It was weird.

Has anyone found any additional reporting of this in mainstream or even somewhat close to mainstream media?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am a legal green card holder not from one of the seven countries flying through LAX the next two weeks. Not brown, yellow. At this point should all gc holders play it safe and just cancel their trips.

Honestly? Yes. The rumors are the next round of immigration-related EOs will focus on non-Muslims and they are going to start kicking out people who they deem as threatening to US jobs and anyone who's received any type of publication assistance. You may think that doesn't apply to you but without details on how they are defining things or how broad they are going I'd play it safe.

DH is respecting the wishes of any visa or greencard holders who work for him not to travel outside of the US indefinitely. These people are overwhelmingly either yellow or brown but not muslim. He, who has been telling me I'm over-reacting since the election, is also starting to drive himself crazy trying to find news of likely forthcoming EOs on work-related immigration. He says a contributing factor to why he feels safe traveling is that he can trace some of his ancestors back to the Mayflower. He might be absolutely nuts, but this is the country we are currently living in.

I just called three immigration attorneys and they said I would probably be fine. But I am paranoid now, I can't decide I have a week to go before I get on flight.

You are fine under the existing law. The issue is entirely about how comfortable you are gambling that another EO impacting your status won't be passed while you are gone. DH has employees with small children who are not willing to take that gamble. He has other employees in the same situation that don't see it as much of a gamble.

The effect of this EO is not really about the people directly impacted, though that's bad enough. It's effect is really about sowing extreme uncertainty about what's going to happen next. Some people will react by calling the people who are worried crazy, other people will react by slipping into some degree of paranoia. But there isn't really much of a middle ground available to us anymore, because you can't rationally look at the situation and say nothing is going to change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's one thing for me to sit here, in my home,candidate marvel at how our government is failing to operate properly. But people are being seriously affected by this. And the lawlessness is still going on. It's not stopping.

Isn't amazing that we have voters who supported a man on the message of law and order who himself has broken laws and norms on a regular basis and now leads the United States and is flouting laws and norms.

Business interests, emoluments, collusion with a foriegn state to steal information used in an election (ie Watergate on streoids), NDA's for Congressional staffers (is that even legal? They are paid out of the US treasury), separation of powers being eroded.

Seriously, when did all of this become okay? How did we digress so quickly - It's been 11 days now.

You would think it's amazing, but no, it doesn't surprise me. Trumpsters have shown they are ok with hypocrisy as long as it supports their cause. Racism, hate and love of money has taken away all reasoning and critical thinking skills.

I also think the fake news component cannot be underestimated. There was a poster a couple days ago blathering on about abiding by "Marbury vs. Madison" not being required to uphold the Constitution, and now I'm hearing it more and more. They are getting their talking points from some extreme RW source and then bringing them into the mainstream. Trump could convert these people's homes into army barracks tomorrow, and they'd still find some reason to say it was Constitutional.

Wait, what? There is a RW meme saying that Marbury v Madison should be ignored?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's one thing for me to sit here, in my home,candidate marvel at how our government is failing to operate properly. But people are being seriously affected by this. And the lawlessness is still going on. It's not stopping.

Isn't amazing that we have voters who supported a man on the message of law and order who himself has broken laws and norms on a regular basis and now leads the United States and is flouting laws and norms.

Business interests, emoluments, collusion with a foriegn state to steal information used in an election (ie Watergate on streoids), NDA's for Congressional staffers (is that even legal? They are paid out of the US treasury), separation of powers being eroded.

Seriously, when did all of this become okay? How did we digress so quickly - It's been 11 days now.

You would think it's amazing, but no, it doesn't surprise me. Trumpsters have shown they are ok with hypocrisy as long as it supports their cause. Racism, hate and love of money has taken away all reasoning and critical thinking skills.

I also think the fake news component cannot be underestimated. There was a poster a couple days ago blathering on about abiding by "Marbury vs. Madison" not being required to uphold the Constitution, and now I'm hearing it more and more. They are getting their talking points from some extreme RW source and then bringing them into the mainstream. Trump could convert these people's homes into army barracks tomorrow, and they'd still find some reason to say it was Constitutional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am a legal green card holder not from one of the seven countries flying through LAX the next two weeks. Not brown, yellow. At this point should all gc holders play it safe and just cancel their trips.

Honestly? Yes. The rumors are the next round of immigration-related EOs will focus on non-Muslims and they are going to start kicking out people who they deem as threatening to US jobs and anyone who's received any type of publication assistance. You may think that doesn't apply to you but without details on how they are defining things or how broad they are going I'd play it safe.

DH is respecting the wishes of any visa or greencard holders who work for him not to travel outside of the US indefinitely. These people are overwhelmingly either yellow or brown but not muslim. He, who has been telling me I'm over-reacting since the election, is also starting to drive himself crazy trying to find news of likely forthcoming EOs on work-related immigration. He says a contributing factor to why he feels safe traveling is that he can trace some of his ancestors back to the Mayflower. He might be absolutely nuts, but this is the country we are currently living in.

I just called three immigration attorneys and they said I would probably be fine. But I am paranoid now, I can't decide I have a week to go before I get on flight.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's one thing for me to sit here, in my home,candidate marvel at how our government is failing to operate properly. But people are being seriously affected by this. And the lawlessness is still going on. It's not stopping.

Isn't amazing that we have voters who supported a man on the message of law and order who himself has broken laws and norms on a regular basis and now leads the United States and is flouting laws and norms.

Business interests, emoluments, collusion with a foriegn state to steal information used in an election (ie Watergate on streoids), NDA's for Congressional staffers (is that even legal? They are paid out of the US treasury), separation of powers being eroded.

Seriously, when did all of this become okay? How did we digress so quickly - It's been 11 days now.

You would think it's amazing, but no, it doesn't surprise me. Trumpsters have shown they are ok with hypocrisy as long as it supports their cause. Racism, hate and love of money has taken away all reasoning and critical thinking skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am a legal green card holder not from one of the seven countries flying through LAX the next two weeks. Not brown, yellow. At this point should all gc holders play it safe and just cancel their trips.

Honestly? Yes. The rumors are the next round of immigration-related EOs will focus on non-Muslims and they are going to start kicking out people who they deem as threatening to US jobs and anyone who's received any type of publication assistance. You may think that doesn't apply to you but without details on how they are defining things or how broad they are going I'd play it safe.

DH is respecting the wishes of any visa or greencard holders who work for him not to travel outside of the US indefinitely. These people are overwhelmingly either yellow or brown but not muslim. He, who has been telling me I'm over-reacting since the election, is also starting to drive himself crazy trying to find news of likely forthcoming EOs on work-related immigration. He says a contributing factor to why he feels safe traveling is that he can trace some of his ancestors back to the Mayflower. He might be absolutely nuts, but this is the country we are currently living in.

This has been updated since last night with more detail, quotes, and a statement from the US Marshals service.

http://www.scpr.org/news/2017/02/01/68647/la-immigration-attorneys-hit-wall-of-silence-with/

Anonymous wrote:Rumors, rumors, rumors, hearsay, hearsay, hearsay, anonymous internet person saying "they know someone," in short nothing verified.

This is called running around like chickens with your heads cut off.

Didn't you ever play those games at school when you were toddlers? Sit in a circle and whisper a message in the next person's ears and the message passes around the circle and comes out at the end different from the onset?

Have fun.

There have been some articles by various news outlets. You're being an ostrich.

I suppose this is hearsay?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/us/iran-brothers-travel-ban-ali-vayeghan.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/

Rumors, rumors, rumors, hearsay, hearsay, hearsay, anonymous internet person saying "they know someone," in short nothing verified.

This is called running around like chickens with your heads cut off.

Didn't you ever play those games at school when you were toddlers? Sit in a circle and whisper a message in the next person's ears and the message passes around the circle and comes out at the end different from the onset?

Have fun.

This is crazy-can't believe it's not on mainstream news.

Anonymous wrote:So I am a legal green card holder not from one of the seven countries flying through LAX the next two weeks. Not brown, yellow. At this point should all gc holders play it safe and just cancel their trips.

My DH is a US citizen with dual citizenship (born abroad). We are not traveling outside of the US because we fear they won't let him back in given the climate toward Muslim and Hispanics (he is Hispanic).

Anonymous wrote:It's one thing for me to sit here, in my home,candidate marvel at how our government is failing to operate properly. But people are being seriously affected by this. And the lawlessness is still going on. It's not stopping.

Isn't amazing that we have voters who supported a man on the message of law and order who himself has broken laws and norms on a regular basis and now leads the United States and is flouting laws and norms.

Business interests, emoluments, collusion with a foriegn state to steal information used in an election (ie Watergate on streoids), NDA's for Congressional staffers (is that even legal? They are paid out of the US treasury), separation of powers being eroded.

Seriously, when did all of this become okay? How did we digress so quickly - It's been 11 days now.