Anonymous wrote:(Basically I subscribe to the philosophy that 80-90% of kids end up "good kids" by 5 or 6, as long as you do a halfway decent job of at least attempting love and discipline. So I find it questionable when people claim "the key" to overcoming typical 2-3-4-year-old behavioral issues is to do X. The main key, for most (not all) kids, seems to be growing out of it.)

+1. We used to take our son out a ton when he was an infant, toddler and little kid because he was always well behaved in restaurants. It wasn't because of anything we did. We continued to take him because he was well behaved. If he had been badly behaved we would have stopped. At some point, before, say age 20, i would expect he could go to a restaurant without eating like a baboon. Regardless of how much he went as a 3 year old.

Oh, and our son is a disaster in other settings, like parties. No amount of exposing him to birthday parties makes him better behaved. And yes, we skip birthday parties all the time because they are such disasters. All that said, i expect by age 20, he can go to parties without screaming about what piece of cake he wants.

(Basically I subscribe to the philosophy that 80-90% of kids end up "good kids" by 5 or 6, as long as you do a halfway decent job of at least attempting love and discipline. So I find it questionable when people claim "the key" to overcoming typical 2-3-4-year-old behavioral issues is to do X. The main key, for most (not all) kids, seems to be growing out of it.)

Anonymous wrote:We did restaurants a lot in the first 2 years, and smugly thought that the experience would prepare him for future good behavior in public. And then it became soooo much harder for him to behave within reason. We tried to keep it up so that he would get used to it, but the fact is that 2 or 3 year olds aren't designed to sit still. We eventually stopped for a while because it wasn't fun for anyone.

We started going more often again when he was about 4, and he was much better. Now at 6 he is fine 95% of the time, but my guess is that most 6 year olds would be fine in a restaurant with or without extensive experience in one.

I'm the OP and this sounds like a representative experience. We did take ours out early and often, and she was and continues to do well, even as a fairly loud extrovert. Our expectations (no electronics, we all engage) and the normalcy of it probably had some influence... But I'm skeptical that it's more than 20% of the cause.

We did restaurants a lot in the first 2 years, and smugly thought that the experience would prepare him for future good behavior in public. And then it became soooo much harder for him to behave within reason. We tried to keep it up so that he would get used to it, but the fact is that 2 or 3 year olds aren't designed to sit still. We eventually stopped for a while because it wasn't fun for anyone.

We started going more often again when he was about 4, and he was much better. Now at 6 he is fine 95% of the time, but my guess is that most 6 year olds would be fine in a restaurant with or without extensive experience in one.

The whole point of etiquette is that it makes your life easier and more pleasant. Table manners evolved to be more hygienic and more considerate for others. In a chain restaurant if you want to stack up plates (neatly, not in a haphazard way, and out of the way on the side) you can certainly do that, so that you can talk to each other without the distraction of dirty dishes in front of you.

In a less fancy place like a chain restaurant, I will stack my plates because there is not enough space on the table and waiters are not hanging around. In really fancy restaurants, the tables are larger, they have more elbow room and the waiters will remove the plates promptly as they are keeping an eye on your table, and want to bring in the next course on a cleared table.

we do not go out to eat often at sit down restaurants---mainly, because I don't want to spend that much for a meal out. When we do, my kids are very well behaved (2, 4 and 6). We expect manners at home, school, out to eat, really, wherever we go. Also, we expect our kids to listen to us, so when in a new environment, they may not be perfect but they listen when corrected.

It's great that some of you take your kids out all the time and they do great but my guess is you expect a lot of the same behavior in other circumstances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, what's wrong with stacking dirty dishes? DH and I waited tables for years, so we do that as a courtesy to the servers.

Right. It's a faux pas. It's not something diners are supposed to do. It's actually not a courtesy, as it draws attention to dirty dishes. In lots of fancier restaurants, the servers don't stack, they remove dishes one at a time and never carry more than one per hand.

In any case, please don't so this anywhere nicer than Chili's.

I mean... I am the PP you are responding to, and I actually knew that. I worked at places nicer than Chili's (although not fine dining). But I do it at Chili's level restaurants and any place where I don't rightfully expect super-attentive service.. Frankly, and I say this as a former server-- if you work in a place where dinner entrees are $20 and up and your table has time to stack their plates, plural-- and you are not totally weeded through no fault of your own, like being the only server on duty for a 10-table restaurant-- you kind of deserve the sight of your customers doing your job for you. It's a visual signal that says bring us the dang check already.

I do this too. As a mom, it just seems lazy not too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, what's wrong with stacking dirty dishes? DH and I waited tables for years, so we do that as a courtesy to the servers.

I'm cringing for you.

This was addressed on the first page. You do not need to shame PP two pages later.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh- and my kids never, ever have tablets or phones at the table. To me that is the height of rudeness.

+1

I don't consider a kid with an iPad at the table to be well-behaved.

Exactly. Sharing a meal is about sharing conversation - not watching some zombie kid on a device. The art of conversation is learned, just like anything else.

My nephew is glued to his iPad or mother's phone every time we go out to eat. God forbid someone ask him to put it away. And my SIL frequently let's him watch videos and play games with the volume on. So eff'ing annoying. I hate going out to eat with them.

Anonymous wrote:Wait, what's wrong with stacking dirty dishes? DH and I waited tables for years, so we do that as a courtesy to the servers.

I'm cringing for you.

We started going out to restaurants with our DD from the time she was an infant. First trip was probably when she was 2 months old. She slept through it. The trick was that one of us would keep the baby engaged while the other parent quickly finished their meal, and then the other one would do the same. We were prepared to leave the restaurant if she was uncomfortable. Of course, this meant that we were not going to restaurants to sit around and talk and socialize. It was literally just ordering, eating and leaving. Some places we could pre-order and tell them that we are coming in with a baby and want to be in and out and they would accomodate us.

People would often stop by our table and comment on how polite and quite my kids were. I guess it has paid off and they are well versed in dining out etiquette.

On the other hand - for the first few years of their lives, when we took them to restaurants, it was not a grown-up dining experience. We only went to chain restaurants like Olive Garden with them. It was only later that we started taking them to fancier restaurants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh- and my kids never, ever have tablets or phones at the table. To me that is the height of rudeness.

+1

I don't consider a kid with an iPad at the table to be well-behaved.

Exactly. Sharing a meal is about sharing conversation - not watching some zombie kid on a device. The art of conversation is learned, just like anything else.

Except when we go out with my parents, they ignore my child and he's completely bored. He's lucky if they say two words to him. Easier to keep him entertained. He is fine without it but I'd be bored too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh- and my kids never, ever have tablets or phones at the table. To me that is the height of rudeness.

+1

I don't consider a kid with an iPad at the table to be well-behaved.

Exactly. Sharing a meal is about sharing conversation - not watching some zombie kid on a device. The art of conversation is learned, just like anything else.

Have kids that are well behaved is what helps them be well behaved out in public. You don't need to teach your children how to act in each specific situation if they are well behaved in general.

Anonymous wrote:Oh- and my kids never, ever have tablets or phones at the table. To me that is the height of rudeness.

+1

I don't consider a kid with an iPad at the table to be well-behaved.