Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't think a lot of the bullshit projects do add to the educational experience. Kids in China, Romania, elsewhere grow up to be theoretical mathematicians, physicists -- all without dressing up like their favorite historical figure, acting out a math facts song, having a pep rally for the SOL's. This stuff is an outgrowth of weird, trendy fads in education in this country and parents with too much time on their hands.
And I have older kids and I absolutely do NOT wish I had been at every party, every field trip, etc. My kids are at top-rated private colleges because I was able to earn the money to send them there. THat's what I value -- not someone acting out a play, gluing more things on construction paper, etc.
Part of the reason I didn't make volunteering a priority is because there truly is no correlation between bullshit projects and how your kids do on the standardized tests and how highly the school is rating. Greatschools.net is actually correlated with household income -- Schools where parents are wealthy, can afford tutors and extra-curriculars, where learning disabilities get diagnosed and treated, where everybody gets fed before they go to school, where kids have the stability of knowing they're not going to end up homeless tend to end up with high test scores. THe bullshit projects don't cause the high ratings or the test scores, and neither does the parental involvement. THe parental resources cause these things, and there also happen to be a lot of bullshit projects.

This. I won't be contributing to this kind of nonsense.

I'm a SAHM and still don't go crazy with the projects. Maybe it is because I am not artsy. Just recently my kids in elementary school had to decorate pumpkins, turkeys, feathers for class turkey and now some how we celebrate holidays poster. They used the art supplies we had at home. My K son said his feather wasn't as good as the others but I was proud that he decorated his turkey feather on his own. He painted it, drew a few pictures and glued some glitter we had at home. It looked like a kindergartener's work. Some parents went all out but we didn't. Teachers know when parents are doing the projects and not the 5 year old child.

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't think a lot of the bullshit projects do add to the educational experience. Kids in China, Romania, elsewhere grow up to be theoretical mathematicians, physicists -- all without dressing up like their favorite historical figure, acting out a math facts song, having a pep rally for the SOL's. This stuff is an outgrowth of weird, trendy fads in education in this country and parents with too much time on their hands.
And I have older kids and I absolutely do NOT wish I had been at every party, every field trip, etc. My kids are at top-rated private colleges because I was able to earn the money to send them there. THat's what I value -- not someone acting out a play, gluing more things on construction paper, etc.
Part of the reason I didn't make volunteering a priority is because there truly is no correlation between bullshit projects and how your kids do on the standardized tests and how highly the school is rating. Greatschools.net is actually correlated with household income -- Schools where parents are wealthy, can afford tutors and extra-curriculars, where learning disabilities get diagnosed and treated, where everybody gets fed before they go to school, where kids have the stability of knowing they're not going to end up homeless tend to end up with high test scores. THe bullshit projects don't cause the high ratings or the test scores, and neither does the parental involvement. THe parental resources cause these things, and there also happen to be a lot of bullshit projects.

This. I won't be contributing to this kind of nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:I would just like some advance warning. I'll buy poster board or whatever for my 1st grader's project but please it's much easier if the teacher emails on Monday that it's needed by Friday. We've gotten emails on Wed night that something is needed by Friday, doable yes, but earlier would be nice.

Or you could just buy a few pieces of poster board at a time so that it's there when you need it? I'm sure you possess the ability to plan ahead in other areas of your life?

I actually don't think a lot of the bullshit projects do add to the educational experience. Kids in China, Romania, elsewhere grow up to be theoretical mathematicians, physicists -- all without dressing up like their favorite historical figure, acting out a math facts song, having a pep rally for the SOL's. This stuff is an outgrowth of weird, trendy fads in education in this country and parents with too much time on their hands.
And I have older kids and I absolutely do NOT wish I had been at every party, every field trip, etc. My kids are at top-rated private colleges because I was able to earn the money to send them there. THat's what I value -- not someone acting out a play, gluing more things on construction paper, etc.
Part of the reason I didn't make volunteering a priority is because there truly is no correlation between bullshit projects and how your kids do on the standardized tests and how highly the school is rating. Greatschools.net is actually correlated with household income -- Schools where parents are wealthy, can afford tutors and extra-curriculars, where learning disabilities get diagnosed and treated, where everybody gets fed before they go to school, where kids have the stability of knowing they're not going to end up homeless tend to end up with high test scores. THe bullshit projects don't cause the high ratings or the test scores, and neither does the parental involvement. THe parental resources cause these things, and there also happen to be a lot of bullshit projects.

I would just like some advance warning. I'll buy poster board or whatever for my 1st grader's project but please it's much easier if the teacher emails on Monday that it's needed by Friday. We've gotten emails on Wed night that something is needed by Friday, doable yes, but earlier would be nice.

Am in favor of parent involvement in general, but I dislike the photo projects and don't like using up all my colored ink on printing out photos. My kids don't enjoy the process, and then the printing ends up being a mom task, and expensive too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the projects are make-work by underemployed women with too much time on their hands. Like Ancient Civilizations day where the hyperweird moms show up in costumes themselves! We moved from a school with lots of stay at home moms to one with significantly fewer and the demands for silly make-work projects went down exponentially.

+1. We're only in PK-4, not K yet, but we're in an area of the city with a lot of dual high incomers. I can only think of one stay at home mom in our three years at the school. We have almost zero requests/obligations to participate. The occasional "please send in any milk cartons for a craft project" and a once-annual request to work the bookfair. But nothing else. Another anecdote: We looked at the Capitol Hill Day School last year and they have a field trip at least once a week, and insist that no parents chaperone because they know that parents in the city almost all work, they didn't want to create parent one-upping, and they think kids do better without the heavy involvement.

My friends in the suburbs describe preschool as hell, with weekly requests for chaperoning trips, mother's day tea, and other requirements to take a half day from work. Lots more stay at home moms there.

It's one thing to try and increase family involvement in poor districts where the kids' academic outcomes can be affected. But I see zero benefit in upper middle class areas to having moms miss half days to hang tinfoil snowflakes for the holiday party.

When I was working, I had two hours a night with my kids. It was not enough for me. My preschooler was sad when mommy missed yet another class party. I'd be relieved if I wasn't chosen to chaperone a field trip. I'm now a SAHM of 3 kids. They keep me plenty busy and our family is happier, especially me. I felt such guilt missing out. All parents handle these feelings differently. Some moms seem to get angry at the school for being demanding. I would feel guilt to know my child wished I was sitting next to him at Thanksgiving lunch at school.

The children in poor schools get left behind because parents are absent.

Anonymous wrote:If you don't like parental involvement, welcome to our 4 out of 10 GS school in California.
Very little going on beyond the bare minimum. Most parents don't give a flying F about helping their kids' school.
But for some reason, parents chose to go to GS 10's but then complain.
It is involved, capable parents who make a difference! DUH.

I just posted above. Im in Loudoun County and our elementart os a 10/10 and middle and high both 9s. No reason to do bullshit dioramas to reach a 10.

Anonymous wrote:We have 3 kids, one in ES and two younger ones. The ES kid seems to have some 'activity' we have to do every week in addition to homework. Many times it involves getting some supply or going out for something we don't have. For example, this week we're supposed to keep the class pet and take photos with him. There's a book everyone writes in and put the photos. Photos means a trip to target or some other place like it to stand in line and print them. Last week we were supposed to come in to read a special story. Then it's wear a certain thing day or print pictures of your family and do x.y.z. Next week it's bring things and volunteer for the holiday party. I don't mean to sound grinchy but do teachers not realize that parents have a zillion things to do and adding one more random errand to the mix for no real purpose is so irritating. I only work very PT and I feel overwhelmed with all the stuff. I can only imagine how people with more demanding jobs feel. It also seems kind of insensitive to assume people have the time/resources to do all this. I don't do everything they ask of course but I also don't want my kiddo to miss out so I do try to do as much as I can. Thanks for letting me vent DCUM!

As a working mom, i straight out tell the teacher and principal that it's absurd and ask what exacty is the value? Luckily in the last 2 years our school has taken the approach of no homework at home unless it is reading, writing, or math worksheet practice. There are ZERO projects they do at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am poor and a single parent. I tell the teacher my kid will not be doing anything that costs money. Either they provide the supplies or she doesn't participate and I'll raise hell if they ding her grades because she's too poor for public school. She's in 8th grade and I only had a problem once, in 6th grade with a teacher insisting she do computer work.

Yet, here you are on an internet site posting. How did you access the link? Paper?

And why can't your 8th grader work on a computer? They are free in school and the library.

+1. Another single parent. What does poor even mean on DCUM? I made just under 50k when DD was born, am still under 100k, and have never considered us poor. We have a warm place of our own to stay, food, access to clean water, good health and health coverage, etc. My 2nd grader attends an immersion school and often uses my cell phone on her own accord for translations during homework. Poor is an overused term on this site.

I don't get it. This is your kid. Demanding, yes. Hard to do because you've had a long day at work and this is extra, yes. But what you do here, what you add to the school, will make all the difference. This is not the laissez-faire world we all grew up in. It is dog-eat-dog. Do you want your kid to thrive? Suck it up and do the right thing -- which is everything that can help your kids succeed.

Anonymous wrote:its over the top in wealthy areas.

after raising 2, I think that schools should be a PARENT-FREE zone.

it is crazy what parents do, and at our high school it was entirely women, and stay at home women, all meetings were 9:30 in the morning.

Parent Free zones? So no PTA. No fundraising, no book fairs, no community service projects, no after school classes, no athletic boosters, no volunteering in classes with 28 kids to 1 parent? How about recess aides where there are 250 kids out and only 1-2 aides. Who do you think stuffs all your kids cubbies with papers, who photocopies flyers and worksheets. Who puts together the parties - the teachers do not have time for that.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean other parents shouldn't.

You do realize that our ES PTA gets about $25K a year on average. Each teacher gets $300 for school supplies. We purchased more chrome books so they don't have to share. All FARMS kids have free field trips and $10 to purchase books at the book fair. Every school activity (dance nights, talent show, skating night, bingo, etc..) are all free for kids and parents. Rentals for chorus and instramental productions. Assemblies and guest speakers during the school day paid for. Playground equipment, games for indoor recess, a bigger fridge for the teacher's lounge.

But yes, let's not involve the parents. They are just in the way.

Anonymous wrote:If you don't like parental involvement, welcome to our 4 out of 10 GS school in California.
Very little going on beyond the bare minimum. Most parents don't give a flying F about helping their kids' school.
But for some reason, parents chose to go to GS 10's but then complain.
It is involved, capable parents who make a difference! DUH.

Exactly.

If you don't like parental involvement, welcome to our 4 out of 10 GS school in California.
Very little going on beyond the bare minimum. Most parents don't give a flying F about helping their kids' school.
But for some reason, parents chose to go to GS 10's but then complain.
It is involved, capable parents who make a difference! DUH.