Anonymous wrote:If you believe in science it all comes down to race and IQ. The US system is based on science denial, thus the endless complex illogical verbose houses of cards constructed by the science deniers.

Anonymous wrote:Pisa test scores are on greatschools.
TJ in FcPs outranks any country. And many (most?) FCPS high schools are ranked in the top 5 along with Finland. Even my GS 5 high school is up there.

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Anonymous wrote:This test is only given to 15 year olds? I'm sure in many countries, the top students are the ones taking this test. The rest of the students are probably enrolled in non-academic tracks. Not so in this country where everyone is supposed to be college and career ready but they've gotten rid of so many vocational programs for high schoolers.

Every time someone offers this up as an excuse. This is from the PISA FAQ "A key objective of PISA is to inform and support education policy decision making within countries. A three-year cycle provides countries with timely information that includes data and analyses to consider the impact of policy decisions and related programs. If it were more frequent it would not allow sufficient time for changes and innovations to show improvement or decline, and if it were less frequent it would mean declines in performance could not be promptly addressed.

The average age of 15 was chosen because at this age young people in most OECD countries are nearing the end of compulsory education. The selection of schools and students is as inclusive as possible, so that the sample of students comes from a broad range of backgrounds and abilities."

In many countries around the world, 15 is the last year of middle school, and the last year of compulsory schooling. High school is often only 3 year and may indeed be voluntary. So the samples are quite comparable across countries.

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone who got primarily and secondary education from outside of US and attended college in US knows these scores are representative. Every college professor knows this. If you never get primary education outside US, you don't even know you what don't know.

Is there a specific area where the US curriculum is lacking, in your opinion? Or is this an overall impression?

I'm wondering, since it is an interesting question. Also, because it is a useful question for parents who are school shopping or supplementing at home. It's always good to know what big thing you are not seeing.

it's not the curriculum. Mostly it's the teachers. In my home country, teaching is a profession that is highly respected and hard to get in. This holds true in both primarily and secondary schools. Some of the best students go to teaching. It's not the same here and good teachers are particularly lacking in elementary schools.

Interesting. In my country it's the parents, who see their role in actively shaping our kids intellects, values and behaviors, instead of just outsourcing that work to schools or to "society."

So I take it you home school, then?

Teachers teach subject matter, the academics. Parents teach their kids to behave, listen, and value education. If the kid needs help with academics at home, then parents should work with the kids. Parents provide enriching activities, like trips to libraries and museums. Teachers play a huge role.

What a deficient and narrow thought process. Our kids enjoy both school AND home school -- see how that's better than just one or the other?

I hope you are not a teacher.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone who got primarily and secondary education from outside of US and attended college in US knows these scores are representative. Every college professor knows this. If you never get primary education outside US, you don't even know you what don't know.

Is there a specific area where the US curriculum is lacking, in your opinion? Or is this an overall impression?

I'm wondering, since it is an interesting question. Also, because it is a useful question for parents who are school shopping or supplementing at home. It's always good to know what big thing you are not seeing.

it's not the curriculum. Mostly it's the teachers. In my home country, teaching is a profession that is highly respected and hard to get in. This holds true in both primarily and secondary schools. Some of the best students go to teaching. It's not the same here and good teachers are particularly lacking in elementary schools.

Interesting. In my country it's the parents, who see their role in actively shaping our kids intellects, values and behaviors, instead of just outsourcing that work to schools or to "society."

So I take it you home school, then?

Teachers teach subject matter, the academics. Parents teach their kids to behave, listen, and value education. If the kid needs help with academics at home, then parents should work with the kids. Parents provide enriching activities, like trips to libraries and museums. Teachers play a huge role.

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Anonymous wrote:IMO, public schools don't spend enough time on basics before moving on to higher level skills. I'm a teacher (on my lunch break) and my first graders are expected to be able to write a paragraph using cited evidence from the text. I didn't do that until 9th grade. I teach in a Title One school and most students cannot write a sentence when they start the school year. I'd rather we focus on basic sentence writing skills instead of expecting paragraphs at this age. If a student is capable of it, great but our students aren't for the most part. I then hear from teachers in the upper grades that students are writing run on sentences, sentence fragments, etc. Handwriting should be emphasized too but it isn't (I emphasize it but...). My child goes to a Catholic school and they aren't expecting such high standards for first graders. One or two well developed sentences is all they are looking for. The kids focus on the parts of speech and what makes up a sentence. This is glossed over in public school.

Where are 1st graders writing a paragraph and citing evidence from a text? School or School system? My child didn't do that till 4th grade and is in a gifted program. Seriously, I would like to know. I've never heard of this.

Agree that grammar should be brought back to elementary. I think it was being taught all the way into high school and people rightly reacted to say that by that time kids should be focusing on more expressive ways of writing so that their writing isn't stifled, but to never teach it is a mistake. There was an overreaction to grammar that hasn't been corrected in public schools.

Anonymous wrote:
I personally experienced European and Asian schooling, one of my children went to school in France, and my kids are now here in MCPS.

The math (and writing) curriculum here is NOWHERE NEAR as rigorous and in-depth as the ones I experienced or my son experienced internationally.

Here they pass students as long they have gotten basic rules of computing down. Not so in other countries. We were set problems to challenge us, so that the difficulty wasn't the computing part or application of simple mathematics, but more deconstructing the problem and seeing how to implement a solution.

Same for writing. Here in middle school all they required of students is a few paragraphs. I was writing essays by then, and woe to students who couldn't spell or clearly articulate concepts with rich vocab.

My point is that the US curriculum is a mile wide and an inch thick, where other countries teach less concepts but go more in-depth so that students are taught to THINK.

What's lacking in the US K-12 education are critical thinking and rigor, and it shows... it gives a multitude of young adults who "know" things but are incapable of connecting the dots to form and express interesting thoughts. The ones who make it to graduate school are the few who have developed this on their own or through their families' more stringent intellectual standards. Actually, there are a lot of international students in US graduate schools, and I've noticed that they're usually top of the class!

Anonymous wrote:IMO, public schools don't spend enough time on basics before moving on to higher level skills. I'm a teacher (on my lunch break) and my first graders are expected to be able to write a paragraph using cited evidence from the text. I didn't do that until 9th grade. I teach in a Title One school and most students cannot write a sentence when they start the school year. I'd rather we focus on basic sentence writing skills instead of expecting paragraphs at this age. If a student is capable of it, great but our students aren't for the most part. I then hear from teachers in the upper grades that students are writing run on sentences, sentence fragments, etc. Handwriting should be emphasized too but it isn't (I emphasize it but...). My child goes to a Catholic school and they aren't expecting such high standards for first graders. One or two well developed sentences is all they are looking for. The kids focus on the parts of speech and what makes up a sentence. This is glossed over in public school.

Anonymous wrote:IMO, public schools don't spend enough time on basics before moving on to higher level skills. I'm a teacher (on my lunch break) and my first graders are expected to be able to write a paragraph using cited evidence from the text. I didn't do that until 9th grade. I teach in a Title One school and most students cannot write a sentence when they start the school year. I'd rather we focus on basic sentence writing skills instead of expecting paragraphs at this age. If a student is capable of it, great but our students aren't for the most part. I then hear from teachers in the upper grades that students are writing run on sentences, sentence fragments, etc. Handwriting should be emphasized too but it isn't (I emphasize it but...). My child goes to a Catholic school and they aren't expecting such high standards for first graders. One or two well developed sentences is all they are looking for. The kids focus on the parts of speech and what makes up a sentence. This is glossed over in public school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who got primarily and secondary education from outside of US and attended college in US knows these scores are representative. Every college professor knows this. If you never get primary education outside US, you don't even know you what don't know.

Is there a specific area where the US curriculum is lacking, in your opinion? Or is this an overall impression?

I'm wondering, since it is an interesting question. Also, because it is a useful question for parents who are school shopping or supplementing at home. It's always good to know what big thing you are not seeing.

it's not the curriculum. Mostly it's the teachers. In my home country, teaching is a profession that is highly respected and hard to get in. This holds true in both primarily and secondary schools. Some of the best students go to teaching. It's not the same here and good teachers are particularly lacking in elementary schools.

Interesting. In my country it's the parents, who see their role in actively shaping our kids intellects, values and behaviors, instead of just outsourcing that work to schools or to "society."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who got primarily and secondary education from outside of US and attended college in US knows these scores are representative. Every college professor knows this. If you never get primary education outside US, you don't even know you what don't know.

Is there a specific area where the US curriculum is lacking, in your opinion? Or is this an overall impression?

I'm wondering, since it is an interesting question. Also, because it is a useful question for parents who are school shopping or supplementing at home. It's always good to know what big thing you are not seeing.

it's not the curriculum. Mostly it's the teachers. In my home country, teaching is a profession that is highly respected and hard to get in. This holds true in both primarily and secondary schools. Some of the best students go to teaching. It's not the same here and good teachers are particularly lacking in elementary schools.