Interesting last post. But that majority of men just slip up once or twice may explain the work conference/ ONS situation. What about a long term affair?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm sure not all guys are dogs, but I no longer believe it's possible to separate the dogs from the non-dogs with 100 % accuracy. Sometimes it is easy to spot a dog. But, there are others who are wolves in sheep's clothing. Everyone who was friends with and worked with my husband told me he was "a good guy" while we are dating and would have been as shocked to learn about the cheating, as I was. I know now to scrutinize people's behavior and ignore their words. But, I also know that some people are just very, very good liars, and it is never possible to tell for sure that your partner is being truthful. The best you can do is run away quickly when these damaged people finally do something that reveals their true character.

Yes, that's the problem. I trust very few people, especially men. A lot of guys hit on me at work and sometimes I actually think they are good guys. Then I find out they have girlfriends and although I'm not romantically interested in them, it really grosses me out and makes me think most men are players. Even the ugly ones. It makes me want to get married less and less. Thankfully, I have a great job so I can take care of myself. I also don't care if I don't have kids, so that also takes some pressure off.

The bottom line is this. All men want to sleep with women other than their wife. All of them. The urge to do so can be a passing thought or an overwhelming compulsion and it ebbs and flows (probably with testosterone levels). The old saying that men are as faithful as their options is largely true.

There are three types of men. Chronic cheaters whose marital vows mean nothing. Men who can keep a monogamous committment no matter the temptation. And men who are good, and try to be good, but will screw up a time or two over the course of a long marriage. The majority of men fall into the last column. Always have, always will. As long as we demand a zero tolerance for extramarital sex, there will forever be women claiming to be blindsided by what they thought was their perfect man who was caught cheating. Lawyers, therapists will profit accordingly.

Anonymous wrote:I find these answers very interesting. I'm a woman, and when I got married would have said that the occasional fling, such as at a conference, as long as there were no permanent effect (child, disease, long-term AP), was fine.

Now I am a middle-aged mother of four, and I am deeply aware of how much less freedom and opportunity I will have for the rest of my life to find something like that outside of my marriage. It would hurt me terribly at this point if my husband cheated.

That is an interesting perspective. I try to imagine my wife coming through the door telling me she cheated, and I can't imagine ending the marriage and breaking up the home over it. What a hassle. But then again, I have the opportunity to have my own fun, so I can relate to the temptation and would probably want a hall pass.

Anonymous wrote: I'm sure not all guys are dogs, but I no longer believe it's possible to separate the dogs from the non-dogs with 100 % accuracy. Sometimes it is easy to spot a dog. But, there are others who are wolves in sheep's clothing. Everyone who was friends with and worked with my husband told me he was "a good guy" while we are dating and would have been as shocked to learn about the cheating, as I was. I know now to scrutinize people's behavior and ignore their words. But, I also know that some people are just very, very good liars, and it is never possible to tell for sure that your partner is being truthful. The best you can do is run away quickly when these damaged people finally do something that reveals their true character.

Yes, that's the problem. I trust very few people, especially men. A lot of guys hit on me at work and sometimes I actually think they are good guys. Then I find out they have girlfriends and although I'm not romantically interested in them, it really grosses me out and makes me think most men are players. Even the ugly ones. It makes me want to get married less and less. Thankfully, I have a great job so I can take care of myself. I also don't care if I don't have kids, so that also takes some pressure off.

I find these answers very interesting. I'm a woman, and when I got married would have said that the occasional fling, such as at a conference, as long as there were no permanent effect (child, disease, long-term AP), was fine.

Now I am a middle-aged mother of four, and I am deeply aware of how much less freedom and opportunity I will have for the rest of my life to find something like that outside of my marriage. It would hurt me terribly at this point if my husband cheated.

Anonymous wrote:No. I'd be more forgiving if dh hit me than if he cheated. No, I have never been abused as a child in any way or been in an abusive relationship. Monogamy for ME - I don't care about others' relationships - is extremely important. Now if I didn't regularly have sex and was otherwise not "putting out" I'd probably understand the desire for a spouse to get intimacy elsewhere.

Interesting.

Cheating is not a deal breaker for me, but if DH so much as slapped me, and I was sure he had all his faculties when he did so, I will be out the door. No questions asked. And I consider my marriage to be perfect.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, my views on monogamy have changed. My view is that if the norm these days is marrying rich, atheist adulterers then the norm is going to be a continual erosion of the institution of marriage, of which, monogamy is an integral part. Marriage is hard, not sleeping with some of the cute girls at my office is hard, law school was kind of hard too, but all of the previous things are worth doing. The problem is people don't "do" hard anymore and do whatever they want to because it pleases them. As long as that's the attitude monogamy and marriage as we know it are in a death spiral. I'm surprised at all the married people that seem to be ok with adultery. If I really found someone that I wanted to sleep with and just couldn't say no then I'd go home and sit down with DW and tell her that it is over. I wouldn't act on anything until after the divorce is final. If DCUM is an accurate representation of the moral fiber of today's men (and women!) then we are in serious @(#!)! trouble.

Let me first state that I am not and will never be a cheater. My husband has never cheated in any monogamous relationship either.

However, you are too idealistic. When was the institution of marriage monogamous? Ha! Monogamy is actually a modern concept(or at least the adherence to monogamy is).

You cannot even begin to compare law school(I know you qualified the comparism with "kind of hard too" but it does not cut it). Law school is three years. My inlaws have been married for 50 + years(and yes, they have always been faithful, but my father-in-law almost left one time because he wanted to sleep with another woman; luckily he snapped out of it). How can you even compare the "hards" in this situation? Marriage is a lifetime, and over a lifetime, people can lose sight of what is important.

Of course, nobody wants to stay married with someone who sleeps around all the time. But if after 10 years of marriage a spouse cheats once, and the marriage is otherwise good, I will beg them to stay together.

As for the bolded, I am not even sure what that is supposed to mean. Are you saying religious people cheat less? I completely disagree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think monogamy is an unrealistic goal. Yes, all guys have Walter Mitty dreams of bedding tons of babes but at the end of the day sharing your life with one special person is really nice albeit difficult to achieve. What's very helpful is to have grown up in a home with loving and monogamous parents and seeing the positive effect it has on children. When you grow up in that environment you aspire for the same and, IMO, work hard to achieve the same goal. My DW and I both grew up in very happy homes and its always been part of our marriage DNA. We are very lucky and we know it.

Understanding I am about to be a wet blanket...

You really don't know if your parents were monogamous. If either one made a mistake over the course of a long marriage, whether one discovered it or not. What you do know is your parents gave you a loving and stable home. That is what is important, because that is what you saw and thrived in.

I say that because the expectation of monogamy or bust seems to cause just as much pain as it saves. Every third thread on here is "he (sometimes she) cheated on me" followed by the chorus of "throw the bum out." Not trying to minimize the pain of infidelity but trying to emphasize that what families need are love, stability but not necessarily exclusivity of sexcapades.

You are a wet blanket! I've been married 38 years and monogamous. Why? Because I adore my DW and the sex is still great. Are their temptations? Sure, but I'd be an idiot to risk what I have and I'm not an idiot.

Well, of course if the sex is great, monogamy is easier to deal with. Lucky you! The reason people question monogamy is when the sexual part of the marriage isn't working, but the rest of it is. Then throw away the marriage and toss the kids into split households or have an open mind on a sexual compromise?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am less adamant about sexual fidelity but more about emotional fidelity. what i mean is this: if spouse wanted to quietly sleep with someone else every once in a while [b]but there was no threat to our marriage, sexual health, no chance of breaking up the family, I would probably be okay with it, or at least accept it since, lets face it, married sex can be a little boring (esp if I got to enjoy the same). I am more anxious though about spouse falling in love with someone else, or someone wrecking our family, messing with the kids.

What about a gray area: if your spouse was in touch/sexting somebody else but never crossed the line physically. OK with that?

Not the PP, but sexting seems like the most harmless of infidelities. No risk of disease, no spending of marital money on hotels or dinners. And assuming your spouse brings that sexual energy home to you. Wouldn't be thrilled with it, but totally forgivable.

Anonymous wrote:I am less adamant about sexual fidelity but more about emotional fidelity. what i mean is this: if spouse wanted to quietly sleep with someone else every once in a while [b]but there was no threat to our marriage, sexual health, no chance of breaking up the family, I would probably be okay with it, or at least accept it since, lets face it, married sex can be a little boring (esp if I got to enjoy the same). I am more anxious though about spouse falling in love with someone else, or someone wrecking our family, messing with the kids.

What about a gray area: if your spouse was in touch/sexting somebody else but never crossed the line physically. OK with that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think monogamy is an unrealistic goal. Yes, all guys have Walter Mitty dreams of bedding tons of babes but at the end of the day sharing your life with one special person is really nice albeit difficult to achieve. What's very helpful is to have grown up in a home with loving and monogamous parents and seeing the positive effect it has on children. When you grow up in that environment you aspire for the same and, IMO, work hard to achieve the same goal. My DW and I both grew up in very happy homes and its always been part of our marriage DNA. We are very lucky and we know it.

Understanding I am about to be a wet blanket...

You really don't know if your parents were monogamous. If either one made a mistake over the course of a long marriage, whether one discovered it or not. What you do know is your parents gave you a loving and stable home. That is what is important, because that is what you saw and thrived in.

I say that because the expectation of monogamy or bust seems to cause just as much pain as it saves. Every third thread on here is "he (sometimes she) cheated on me" followed by the chorus of "throw the bum out." Not trying to minimize the pain of infidelity but trying to emphasize that what families need are love, stability but not necessarily exclusivity of sexcapades.

You are a wet blanket! I've been married 38 years and monogamous. Why? Because I adore my DW and the sex is still great. Are their temptations? Sure, but I'd be an idiot to risk what I have and I'm not an idiot.

I subscribe to the belief that, if my husband cheated and was genuinely sorry and ready to move forward, I would forgive him.

I have friends who subscribe to the "kick the bum out" belief, and I watch the nightmare that is a man who wants to work it out and the woman who can't get over herself, all the while she bitches and complains about how hard work/kids/money is being single.

I'd sooner have an open marriage than divorce just for this reason. But then, everyone's idea of a deal breaker or happy marriage is different. Out of the vast range of things that make a marriage work, I don't know if monogamy is top of the list for me.

No. I'd be more forgiving if dh hit me than if he cheated. No, I have never been abused as a child in any way or been in an abusive relationship. Monogamy for ME - I don't care about others' relationships - is extremely important. Now if I didn't regularly have sex and was otherwise not "putting out" I'd probably understand the desire for a spouse to get intimacy elsewhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think monogamy is an unrealistic goal. Yes, all guys have Walter Mitty dreams of bedding tons of babes but at the end of the day sharing your life with one special person is really nice albeit difficult to achieve. What's very helpful is to have grown up in a home with loving and monogamous parents and seeing the positive effect it has on children. When you grow up in that environment you aspire for the same and, IMO, work hard to achieve the same goal. My DW and I both grew up in very happy homes and its always been part of our marriage DNA. We are very lucky and we know it.

Understanding I am about to be a wet blanket...

You really don't know if your parents were monogamous. If either one made a mistake over the course of a long marriage, whether one discovered it or not. What you do know is your parents gave you a loving and stable home. That is what is important, because that is what you saw and thrived in.

I say that because the expectation of monogamy or bust seems to cause just as much pain as it saves. Every third thread on here is "he (sometimes she) cheated on me" followed by the chorus of "throw the bum out." Not trying to minimize the pain of infidelity but trying to emphasize that what families need are love, stability but not necessarily exclusivity of sexcapades.

So true. I've never told anybody this. I once found letters from a woman to my dad in his work area. I don't know how old they were (but maybe not SO old). I put them down immediately because my teenaged self didn't want to know, and realized it wasn't ok for me to read. Fast forward 30 years and now I DO want to know ... BUT, I understand whether he had an affair or not is not my business. He was always there for me and my siblings. He is still always there for us, even now that we are all grown up with almost grown up kids of our own.

Yes, my views on monogamy have changed. My view is that if the norm these days is marrying rich, atheist adulterers then the norm is going to be a continual erosion of the institution of marriage, of which, monogamy is an integral part. Marriage is hard, not sleeping with some of the cute girls at my office is hard, law school was kind of hard too, but all of the previous things are worth doing. The problem is people don't "do" hard anymore and do whatever they want to because it pleases them. As long as that's the attitude monogamy and marriage as we know it are in a death spiral. I'm surprised at all the married people that seem to be ok with adultery. If I really found someone that I wanted to sleep with and just couldn't say no then I'd go home and sit down with DW and tell her that it is over. I wouldn't act on anything until after the divorce is final. If DCUM is an accurate representation of the moral fiber of today's men (and women!) then we are in serious @(#!)! trouble.