Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 16:37     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
I thought this was a good article on the role of ODP from a few years ago: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-role-of-odp-in-american-youth-soccer_aid28535

One of the ODP coaches mentioned had this quote: "Our job in the ODP, in my opinion, is going deeper into the communities and going where we never went before."

This is what I'd like to see ODP move toward. DA, ECNL, and National league players don't need ODP to be noticed or to help them develop, but millions of kids have no access to those teams or to high level feeder teams due to geography, finances, or lack of a soccer culture in their communities. ODP would be doing something hugely important if it focused on kids in those areas instead of working in areas like the suburban metro DC market, where there is already an overabundance of expensive soccer training options.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 15:28     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Regarding National League/ODP discussion, I am hard-pressed to picture how my DS could fit ODP into the schedule without there being several conflicts with National League and his team commitments, not to mention the potential impact on grades. The "supplemental" and possible recruiting benefits just don't seem to outweigh the potential downsides and if you are such an athletic, academic, time-management superstar that you could juggle ODP with academics and National League (without ticking off too many coaches along the way because of direct conflicts), then you don't really need ODP. As to whether a "strong Club team plus Regional ODP" is better than "successful National League level team" for recruiting or vice versa, I don't know, but I have been impressed with National League.


Supplemental means simply extra. If in your situation ODP is to much to fit in that ODP valid and your choice. It isn't a "one is better than another" kind of thing. But the ability to juggle club, ODP and school can be a difference maker with a school and a college coach. Like it or not your kid will likely be competing for a roster spot and some money against a kid who has demonstrated the talent and time management skills.


Not the poster you are responding to, but I just don't think there is any scenario in which a college coach will be comparing at two starters on competitive National league teams from this area who have similar academic stats and decide to give the nod to one over the other merely because one is also participating in ODP. They are more likely to wonder why, if the ODP kid felt he wasn't getting enough soccer experience, he didn't join a DA team instead.

Below the DA level, being a National team starter is absolutely enough to get you looks from coaches of schools you are interested in, and then they will decide based on how talented they think you are/how much potential you have, whether you fill a position that they need, and whether your academics are at the level that they can easily get you in. National league level play (plus high school soccer in most cases) as your main extracurricular plus good grades/scores will be enough to develop time management skills for anyone who is judging, and improvements in grades and scores will help your odds much more than ODP or other supplemental training will.


When a college coach is receiving multiple emails with soccer resumes, yes, a more well rounded and full resume WILL standout upon introduction.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 15:25     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Regarding National League/ODP discussion, I am hard-pressed to picture how my DS could fit ODP into the schedule without there being several conflicts with National League and his team commitments, not to mention the potential impact on grades. The "supplemental" and possible recruiting benefits just don't seem to outweigh the potential downsides and if you are such an athletic, academic, time-management superstar that you could juggle ODP with academics and National League (without ticking off too many coaches along the way because of direct conflicts), then you don't really need ODP. As to whether a "strong Club team plus Regional ODP" is better than "successful National League level team" for recruiting or vice versa, I don't know, but I have been impressed with National League.


Supplemental means simply extra. If in your situation ODP is to much to fit in that ODP valid and your choice. It isn't a "one is better than another" kind of thing. But the ability to juggle club, ODP and school can be a difference maker with a school and a college coach. Like it or not your kid will likely be competing for a roster spot and some money against a kid who has demonstrated the talent and time management skills.


Not the poster you are responding to, but I just don't think there is any scenario in which a college coach will be comparing at two starters on competitive National league teams from this area who have similar academic stats and decide to give the nod to one over the other merely because one is also participating in ODP. They are more likely to wonder why, if the ODP kid felt he wasn't getting enough soccer experience, he didn't join a DA team instead.

Below the DA level, being a National team starter is absolutely enough to get you looks from coaches of schools you are interested in, and then they will decide based on how talented they think you are/how much potential you have, whether you fill a position that they need, and whether your academics are at the level that they can easily get you in. National league level play (plus high school soccer in most cases) as your main extracurricular plus good grades/scores will be enough to develop time management skills for anyone who is judging, and improvements in grades and scores will help your odds much more than ODP or other supplemental training will.


I don't think you understand exactly what ODP is if you view it simply as "supplemental training". It is a scouting process. If your kid makes Regionals, yes, a college coach will take notice. Making regionals represents a consensus that many, many coaches have of your kid that coupled with a club background paints a more accurate picture of your player that can be helpful.

I'm not saying doing ODP is necessary or even reasonable for your player. I'm simply saying, that if there is room in your schedule and wallet and your kid is not on DA it can be beneficial. There are lots of paths and every kids situation is unique so mileage will vary. If you participate or skip ODP just make sure you are doing it for the right reasons.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 14:07     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Regarding National League/ODP discussion, I am hard-pressed to picture how my DS could fit ODP into the schedule without there being several conflicts with National League and his team commitments, not to mention the potential impact on grades. The "supplemental" and possible recruiting benefits just don't seem to outweigh the potential downsides and if you are such an athletic, academic, time-management superstar that you could juggle ODP with academics and National League (without ticking off too many coaches along the way because of direct conflicts), then you don't really need ODP. As to whether a "strong Club team plus Regional ODP" is better than "successful National League level team" for recruiting or vice versa, I don't know, but I have been impressed with National League.


Supplemental means simply extra. If in your situation ODP is to much to fit in that ODP valid and your choice. It isn't a "one is better than another" kind of thing. But the ability to juggle club, ODP and school can be a difference maker with a school and a college coach. Like it or not your kid will likely be competing for a roster spot and some money against a kid who has demonstrated the talent and time management skills.


Not the poster you are responding to, but I just don't think there is any scenario in which a college coach will be comparing at two starters on competitive National league teams from this area who have similar academic stats and decide to give the nod to one over the other merely because one is also participating in ODP. They are more likely to wonder why, if the ODP kid felt he wasn't getting enough soccer experience, he didn't join a DA team instead.

Below the DA level, being a National team starter is absolutely enough to get you looks from coaches of schools you are interested in, and then they will decide based on how talented they think you are/how much potential you have, whether you fill a position that they need, and whether your academics are at the level that they can easily get you in. National league level play (plus high school soccer in most cases) as your main extracurricular plus good grades/scores will be enough to develop time management skills for anyone who is judging, and improvements in grades and scores will help your odds much more than ODP or other supplemental training will.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 13:23     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Teams apply to play in National League each year. I would look at teams/clubs that have a history of playing in national league.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 12:45     Subject: College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
How do kids get onto a National league team?
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 12:19     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:Regarding National League/ODP discussion, I am hard-pressed to picture how my DS could fit ODP into the schedule without there being several conflicts with National League and his team commitments, not to mention the potential impact on grades. The "supplemental" and possible recruiting benefits just don't seem to outweigh the potential downsides and if you are such an athletic, academic, time-management superstar that you could juggle ODP with academics and National League (without ticking off too many coaches along the way because of direct conflicts), then you don't really need ODP. As to whether a "strong Club team plus Regional ODP" is better than "successful National League level team" for recruiting or vice versa, I don't know, but I have been impressed with National League.


Supplemental means simply extra. If in your situation ODP is to much to fit in that ODP valid and your choice. It isn't a "one is better than another" kind of thing. But the ability to juggle club, ODP and school can be a difference maker with a school and a college coach. Like it or not your kid will likely be competing for a roster spot and some money against a kid who has demonstrated the talent and time management skills.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2017 11:23     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Regarding National League/ODP discussion, I am hard-pressed to picture how my DS could fit ODP into the schedule without there being several conflicts with National League and his team commitments, not to mention the potential impact on grades. The "supplemental" and possible recruiting benefits just don't seem to outweigh the potential downsides and if you are such an athletic, academic, time-management superstar that you could juggle ODP with academics and National League (without ticking off too many coaches along the way because of direct conflicts), then you don't really need ODP. As to whether a "strong Club team plus Regional ODP" is better than "successful National League level team" for recruiting or vice versa, I don't know, but I have been impressed with National League.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2017 00:10     Subject: College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Op
I have no idea about these sat #s. I was in the max1600 era
My son is very good academically

I guess im wondering if its worth trying to switch clubs
And drive a bit further or stay at current club.





But to be honest im not sure what a competitive club is. Or just topbteam at any decent club

Is NCsl div1?
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2017 15:45     Subject: College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ignore it as a way in to college, or the way to pay for college. Please.


no - don't listen to this OP. esp if you are asian or unhooked kid. My siblings were all a decade younger than me and we pushed them in soccer as a way to get a hook that otherwise wouldn't have nabbed them acceptance to 'top schools'. i.e. your typical 2100/2150, top 10% student that gets shut out of ivies or top slacs because they are non-urm and un-hooked.


Yeah, it can help you get in, but you still have to have great academic stats for those schools. (A superstar can probably get into an Ivy with less-than-great academics but each team will probably have a few.)


pp you are responding to - perhaps we have different criteria for what is 'great academic stats' but i don't consider 2100-2200 sat/top 10% student in middle class flyover public to be great academic stats. however that was above the median for the soccer teams my siblings played in at their ivies and slac.

there are tens of thousands of students nationwide with those stats. while the ivies use the academic index, it dips pretty low IMO for athletes. but then again it depends what you define as great or not.

great for me is 2250+/top 2-5% class ranked kid at a competitive HS.


What was the median for your siblings' teams? I'm guessing 2000-ish SAT?

I do consider 2100+ (or 1400+ back in my day) to be great. It's in the ballpark for most Ivies and SLAC without the athletics.

From what I understand, Ivies can dip really low (maybe 1800-ish) for a few studs, possibly even a little lower in hockey/basketball.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2017 12:48     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:I posted the link to the National league commitments page and wanted to follow up to say I don't think there is anyway to know how complete the lists are. A lot of kids/clubs don't seem to report DIII recruits in particular.

In Maryland at least, I know of very few boys playing National league or DA who were involved in ODP much past elementary school. I know a few on lower level club teams who still are involved in ODP in HS.


Absolutely agree. I would say there is a 2 point bump in real commits that go unreported. I have also gone on record as saying if your kid really wants to play soccer in college that they will likely catch on somewhere.

The discussion had turned to is ODP worth it to boys playing in the National League. Based on the best known numbers I would stand by my point is that ODP would help a boy stand out. Being necessary depends upon your kid and their talent. One parent said no thanks and I respect that, they know their kid best. But I don't think any particular league is a definitive answer for all players.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2017 11:54     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
I posted the link to the National league commitments page and wanted to follow up to say I don't think there is anyway to know how complete the lists are. A lot of kids/clubs don't seem to report DIII recruits in particular.

In Maryland at least, I know of very few boys playing National league or DA who were involved in ODP much past elementary school. I know a few on lower level club teams who still are involved in ODP in HS.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2017 11:27     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's a list of college commitments from the National league website: http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/national_league/national_league_college_commitments/


Combining U18 & U19 boys that is about 68 commitments for up to 1200 league players for about a 5% commitment rate. While not official numbers and certainly great schools are represented there is nothing there that would convince me that ODP would not help a player stand out.


Actually, there are 32 boys teams at U18 but 16 teams at U19 so 48 teams x 20 players per team is 960 players (not 1200). So that is a (reported) commitment rate of 7.2% for those juniors and seniors. Of course there are dozens of boys DA teams around the country who send every boy on their rosters to play on a college team, so the commitment rate for boys playing in the National League competition will be depressed by the strong presence of DA teams on the boys side.

On the girls side of the National League teams, it looks like there are 308 college commits reported at U18 and U19 (out of 960 players) so about a 33% college commit rate for high school juniors and seniors. That seems like a pretty good ratio for the girls considering that the dozens of ECNL teams don't participate in National League competion.


The Boys side was being discussed. Based on the official standings there are 48 teams combining U18&U19/20 age groups. Adjusting for the max roster size of 22 kids that leaves a maximum of 1056 possible kids. The percentage of commits is now at 6%.

So again, please tell me that ODP is of no help here. Since there is no significant bump in terms of average based on the league I would think that ODP would help some of those kids stand out a bit. The process could simply expose them to a college coach they might not have otherwise played in front of.

ODP can be a time suck but a year or two would not hurt at all.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2016 17:09     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's a list of college commitments from the National league website: http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/national_league/national_league_college_commitments/


Combining U18 & U19 boys that is about 68 commitments for up to 1200 league players for about a 5% commitment rate. While not official numbers and certainly great schools are represented there is nothing there that would convince me that ODP would not help a player stand out.


Actually, there are 32 boys teams at U18 but 16 teams at U19 so 48 teams x 20 players per team is 960 players (not 1200). So that is a (reported) commitment rate of 7.2% for those juniors and seniors. Of course there are dozens of boys DA teams around the country who send every boy on their rosters to play on a college team, so the commitment rate for boys playing in the National League competition will be depressed by the strong presence of DA teams on the boys side.

On the girls side of the National League teams, it looks like there are 308 college commits reported at U18 and U19 (out of 960 players) so about a 33% college commit rate for high school juniors and seniors. That seems like a pretty good ratio for the girls considering that the dozens of ECNL teams don't participate in National League competion.


I said up to 1200 players. Some teams might carry 25 per roster.


Actually the maximum roster size for NL is set at 22 but only 18 can dress for any game.

Anonymous
Post 12/31/2016 16:38     Subject: Re:College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's a list of college commitments from the National league website: http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/national_league/national_league_college_commitments/


Combining U18 & U19 boys that is about 68 commitments for up to 1200 league players for about a 5% commitment rate. While not official numbers and certainly great schools are represented there is nothing there that would convince me that ODP would not help a player stand out.


Actually, there are 32 boys teams at U18 but 16 teams at U19 so 48 teams x 20 players per team is 960 players (not 1200). So that is a (reported) commitment rate of 7.2% for those juniors and seniors. Of course there are dozens of boys DA teams around the country who send every boy on their rosters to play on a college team, so the commitment rate for boys playing in the National League competition will be depressed by the strong presence of DA teams on the boys side.

On the girls side of the National League teams, it looks like there are 308 college commits reported at U18 and U19 (out of 960 players) so about a 33% college commit rate for high school juniors and seniors. That seems like a pretty good ratio for the girls considering that the dozens of ECNL teams don't participate in National League competion.


I said up to 1200 players. Some teams might carry 25 per roster.