As a Freshman lots more interaction with faculty and research opportunities at Dartmouth. At Cal you have to be at least an upperclassman. Most Freshman lecture sectionms are taught my graduate students Don't know Brown or Cornell or Michigan for that matter. Within the Ivies, Dartmouth is a liberal arts college with professional schools. Emphasis on undergraduates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Why are you on a forum for DC moms and dads?

DCUM is not restricted to the DC area. Are you for censorship?

Not the other poster but no one is for censorship. What we are for is a return to serious college discussion instead of so much ridiculous banter, obvious sock-puppeting, and questionable threads that belong in gossip rags.

Hopefully you'll get bored with us soon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Why are you on a forum for DC moms and dads?

DCUM is not restricted to the DC area. Are you for censorship?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Why are you on a forum for DC moms and dads?

Sounds like this nut that lives on college confidential with tens of thousands of posts. She has a pit bull avatar.

Seems like you haunt college confidential also since you are so familiar with its workings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Why are you on a forum for DC moms and dads?

Sounds like this nut that lives on college confidential with tens of thousands of posts. She has a pit bull avatar.

none of the schools is a certain path to 'success' or 'failure' or ranking of life success in the real world. I have two "lesser Ivy" degrees -- some of my classmates are billionaires, some are successful lawyers, some are policy analysts, some are teachers, some are in rehab. From my experience of where kids from my 'elite' DMV schools ended up for college, their classmates are pretty similarly situated as adults - across some level of privilege-outcome spectrum. Some subset of the kids from all the schools you mention all end up in the same grad school programs, if that's their interest/path. Kids from here who go to college in CA are more likely to stay and live out there than ones who stay in the East - who are more likely to live in NY area, DC, Boston, etc. Or what types of majors, or if they are the type of kid who thrives in a smaller environment etc. I would focus on those types of questions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Why are you on a forum for DC moms and dads?

+1000. This may explain some of the threads and comments in the forum.

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Why are you on a forum for DC moms and dads?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Sorry, but the idea that Michigan is better than any of those schools is unthinkable. Nice try, though.

Note how she said Michigan grad student, teasing out she likely attended a shithole undergrad. I guarantee she's never even breathed the air on the campuses of Columbia, Cornell or Brown but she's an expert because she's a grad student at a public U? Too funny. Very Dunner-Kruger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

If money is of concern and it's significantly cheaper to go to your *in-state* top public college (UVA, Michigan, etc), go in-state.

If money is not of concern, go Ivy.

The "best public colleges" and the "worst Ivy leagues" are all excellent schools and are mostly different enough from each other that it's comparing apples to oranges (Brown is very different from Cornell or Dartmouth or Penn; Penn and Cornell are larger schools closer to the big state universities in size; Brown and Dartmouth are dominated by their undergraduate schools and have small professional and graduate programs; the Ivies are known for strong undergraduate experiences while a school like Cal may have amazing graduate schools but their undergraduate programs don't benefit from the prestige of the graduate divisions due to sheer size and limited resources; Penn and Cornell both have stronger pre-professional vibes while Brown and Dartmouth have stronger liberal arts vibes; Dartmouth is outdoorsy while Penn is urban; the big public flagship universities have a dimension to the collegiate experience that the Ivies don't even begin to approach; Cal is quite different from UVA and Michigan....)

In other words, all are excellent schools but for different reasons and will appeal to different types of bright students. Trying to rank these schools, on a undergraduate level, is almost pointless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Sorry, but the idea that Michigan is better than any of those schools is unthinkable. Nice try, though.

Not saying they are. My point is that with all the resources Michigan has, I doubt those three schools have an advantage.

Keep in mind that a top ten grad department is totally different from a top undergrad department. I went to a grad program similar to Michigan - top ten in my field. The undergrads definitely did not benefit from the things that made the department great. They were taught by adjuncts and older faculty who were no longer cutting edge researchers. Some of those men were excellent teachers (adjuncts were too sometimes, and even women!) but they were NOT in any way responsible for the school's reputation. At my ivy alma mater -- one of those you criticize, we rarely had TAs. We were taught often by tenured and tenure-track professors.

Not criticizing. These are all great schools with great results.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have to think about UVA undergrad business over Wharton. Most likely Wharton. I'd also have to think about Cal over all but HYP. Other than that, no--the top remaining publics, per US News, of UCLA, Michigan, UNC, and William and Mary--don't make the cut over any Ivy. YMMV.

Who does business undergrad??

I did. Job with Goldman straight out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Sorry, but the idea that Michigan is better than any of those schools is unthinkable. Nice try, though.

Not saying they are. My point is that with all the resources Michigan has, I doubt those three schools have an advantage.

Keep in mind that a top ten grad department is totally different from a top undergrad department. I went to a grad program similar to Michigan - top ten in my field. The undergrads definitely did not benefit from the things that made the department great. They were taught by adjuncts and older faculty who were no longer cutting edge researchers. Some of those men were excellent teachers (adjuncts were too sometimes, and even women!) but they were NOT in any way responsible for the school's reputation. At my ivy alma mater -- one of those you criticize, we rarely had TAs. We were taught often by tenured and tenure-track professors.

Anonymous wrote:Probably not, but, money aside, the choice between those schools comes down to the type of environment that you think you'll be happiest in since they are so different. This coming from someone who went to both a big public and an Ivy for undergrad.

Yup. Very different. Went ivy for undergrad and top ten grad program at land grant school for graduate.

It is probably better to be in one of the ivies if you are going to just scrape by, but for the rest of us you can get a great education at both but it will be different.

Your average ivy demands more of their undergrads than does your average big ten school, but probably fails fewer students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grad student who currently attends Michigan and is very familiar with the undergraduate population. I understand the appeal of HYP but there is no way Columbia, Cornell, or Brown have better teaching than Michigan or Cal. Truly splitting hairs as both these state schools have some of the best departments and teachers in the country.

But I will admit that Ivy League on a resume helps for a variety of reasons.

Sorry, but the idea that Michigan is better than any of those schools is unthinkable. Nice try, though.

Not saying they are. My point is that with all the resources Michigan has, I doubt those three schools have an advantage.