Anonymous
09/25/2016 11:56
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Indoctrinating your child in any faith is wrong, adopted are not.
So, everyone should raise their child as atheist or agnostic, regardless of the family traditions that are important to them? I'm a liberal Reform Jew (I'm the NP a few posts above), and my DH is an atheist--raised atheist, by two parents who were raised Methodist. It's absolutely 100% fine with us if our DS, whom we're raising Jewish, ends up as an atheist, agnostic, or humanist, because that means he's taking a critical, educated look at the world and making choices for himself. But we're raising him with the traditions (religious and non- ) that are important to us and our families. No one is giving up any cultural celebrations because we don't want to "indoctrinate" our child--and that means we celebrate the Jewish holy days in a religious way, though with an eye on humanism, and Christmas and Easter in a secular American cultural way. It's all good.
Anonymous
09/25/2016 11:53
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
NP here. My neighbor two doors down adopted a girl from China and she's being raised Jewish. Seems to not be an issue. She's going to (sorry, don't know the proper terms) the Hebrew school; will get a bat mizvah etc., goes to Temple.
Anonymous
09/25/2016 11:40
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
Indoctrinating your child in any faith is wrong, adopted are not.
Anonymous
09/25/2016 11:25
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are Jewish and we have a biological child, age 3. After struggling with secondary infertility for 2 years it seems that we cannot have anymore children (I have uterus problems that cannot be treated). We would love to adopt but my concern is about raising a child in the Jewish faith who was not born Jewish. Namely, is it fair to the child to raise him/her Jewish when they were not born from Jewish birthparents? Would they always feel different/out of place in the family or feel that Judaism wasn't the right fit for them, since they wouldn't be choosing to convert? When you adopt from another country I know that it's important to introduce your child to the traditions/culture of her home country, so she doesn't lose that part of her heritage. Would the same be true of religion, and if so, how would we do this given that we do not feel comfortable celebrating non-Jewish holidays or attending church services?
We are not very religious (reform) but Judaism is very important to us and being a member of the Jewish community is central to our family life. Our child will go to Hebrew/Sunday school, have a B'nai Mitzvah, etc., and being involved in the synagogue is very important to us.
My husband, who is also Jewish, has an adopted sister from a South American country who as an adult no longer considers herself Jewish, married a non-Jewish man, and is raising her kids in the Christian faith. I have a first cousin who is adopted (family is Jewish), and he married a non-Jewish woman and considers himself to be Christian and is raising his kids Christian. I guess I look at these two family members who are adopted and who chose not to continue being Jewish and to raise their kids in their birth faith and I wonder if my child would feel similarly.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
How were those two treated by Jews? You might want to find out. I can say from experience marrying into a Jewish family that Jews can be very close minded, ignorant, and rude to "outsiders" and can have a real persecution/chosen ones complex. If I ever divorce DH, I will never again so much as date a Jew. We are raising our children Jewish, but I have no doubt that the ignorance of so many Jews will eventually alienate my kids from the religion and culture.
NP.
While I appreciate that you used the words "can be," I feel the need to point out that this isn't representative of all Jewush communities. I was raised Reform, and am married to a non-Jew who was welcomed with open arms into our community. We have been to services in three different places (two very different geographical areas), and all of them have had non-white Jews, intermarriage, interracial families, and adopted children. All were equal members of the community. It makes me so upset to hear that this "outsider" status still happens...but then, I was actually treated as a "non-Jew" by some members of my grandparents' Orthodox community, so there's that.
+1, it really depends on where you are and who you are dealing with. Orthodox communities feel very differently about conversions than reformed. 15 years ago we had a horrible time finding a Rabbi to marry us as my husband was not Jewish (important to grandma). In some places, a child will be an equal member and in some places they will be an outsider and its something to consider. They will not understand always why one group is open and welcoming and another is not when they are young.
There is also the issue of trying to adopt. We had many birthparents rule us out looking for a "loving Christian home" and while I could have lied and they probably would not have known, we choose not to. It was usually one of the first things in a phone call for private adoption we would get. (although many were scam calls)
Anonymous
09/25/2016 08:49
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are Jewish and we have a biological child, age 3. After struggling with secondary infertility for 2 years it seems that we cannot have anymore children (I have uterus problems that cannot be treated). We would love to adopt but my concern is about raising a child in the Jewish faith who was not born Jewish. Namely, is it fair to the child to raise him/her Jewish when they were not born from Jewish birthparents? Would they always feel different/out of place in the family or feel that Judaism wasn't the right fit for them, since they wouldn't be choosing to convert? When you adopt from another country I know that it's important to introduce your child to the traditions/culture of her home country, so she doesn't lose that part of her heritage. Would the same be true of religion, and if so, how would we do this given that we do not feel comfortable celebrating non-Jewish holidays or attending church services?
We are not very religious (reform) but Judaism is very important to us and being a member of the Jewish community is central to our family life. Our child will go to Hebrew/Sunday school, have a B'nai Mitzvah, etc., and being involved in the synagogue is very important to us.
My husband, who is also Jewish, has an adopted sister from a South American country who as an adult no longer considers herself Jewish, married a non-Jewish man, and is raising her kids in the Christian faith. I have a first cousin who is adopted (family is Jewish), and he married a non-Jewish woman and considers himself to be Christian and is raising his kids Christian. I guess I look at these two family members who are adopted and who chose not to continue being Jewish and to raise their kids in their birth faith and I wonder if my child would feel similarly.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
How were those two treated by Jews? You might want to find out. I can say from experience marrying into a Jewish family that Jews can be very close minded, ignorant, and rude to "outsiders" and can have a real persecution/chosen ones complex. If I ever divorce DH, I will never again so much as date a Jew. We are raising our children Jewish, but I have no doubt that the ignorance of so many Jews will eventually alienate my kids from the religion and culture.
NP.
While I appreciate that you used the words "can be," I feel the need to point out that this isn't representative of all Jewush communities. I was raised Reform, and am married to a non-Jew who was welcomed with open arms into our community. We have been to services in three different places (two very different geographical areas), and all of them have had non-white Jews, intermarriage, interracial families, and adopted children. All were equal members of the community. It makes me so upset to hear that this "outsider" status still happens...but then, I was actually treated as a "non-Jew" by some members of my grandparents' Orthodox community, so there's that.
Anonymous
09/25/2016 01:04
Subject: Re:Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote::28. I am jewish. This made me cry.
I was raised conservative and was nodding as I read about your use of goy. Though the way my mother always used it was to put down someone who was non-Jewish in a tacky way (think Real Housewives of Jersey). Now that I'm an adult I find her judgment tacky.
I am so sorry you were made to feel "other."
Thanks, you are sweet. It all adds to the fabric of who we are, so I feel kind of lucky to have had an observer's seat in a weird way- I kind of decided that was the gift in light of other not so great things.
Sure, I understand exactly what was said by our parents. That's what my parents did: " She acts like a 'shicksa" " Such a goyim thing to do."
It was a way to culturally separate everyone and to preserve the culture, but for most children in my generation (not adopted or adopted) it did not work. We were the first to marry out ( in the 70s and 80s) - sometimes with great trauma to the family, but, at least with those that I know, no one was disowned. No one. Those kids kids had kids who married Jews and Non- Jews, and many married outside of the race. Most seem to practice or keep the culture, some more of the religion than others, but it is not gone. The world progresses. So, the question is this: is Judaism dying because we cannot preserve that cultural boundary line? No. Judaism is being rebranded and reformulated to reflect a educated, pluralistic, non-mysogenistic society. Reform and Conservative Judaism does not look like Orthodox practice at all. I've been to Bar Mitzvahs and weddings that really do not even resemble anything traditional in style or liturgy. Sometimes I think it looks like "not Christian" more than " different Jewish." Whatever it is , this generation will continue to progress in ways that do not resemble the culture of Europe in the 1800s, and the Orthodox will continue to strive to keep it. What that will look like in 20 years will be quite interesting, but even the Orthodox will have a hard time with the bloodline thing- surrogate eggs, carriers, IVF, conversions, adoption- I mean, the gig is up, they will have to progress eventually, too.
I'm not angry at my parents (now) at all.If they were here, they would explain that they were raised in fear, through WWII, and the things they said and did to try and preserve their culture were based in survival. They grew up in extremely observant homes and they were the ones to figure out how to assimilate with non-Jews because they left their city shtetels and worked as professionals in the world. They didn't socialize out of their community, but they did work out of their community. Their parents lived in little insular communities and had shops, small businesses, etc...only within the Jewish community. So, our parents made some mistakes in how to do it in some ways, and I guess there were casualties, but like every revolution, there will be casualties. I think it's interesting that parents today, people in their 30s, who are Jewish and not orthodox, might still wonder or worry about the genetic aspect of it.
Meanwhile, one of my kids has an appearance that doesn't scream "non-Jew." In fact, when she tells people she's Jewish, no one has ever questioned it. As a result, she and her kids will go through life without anyone questioning it, so she could easily live in Israel, marry anyone, participate in religion, etc. if she wanted to. She is not genetically Jewish at all. It would only be questioned if she volunteered that her mother was adopted and was not Jewish, or maybe if someone saw me and instantly would question it, so how will that be prevented in this generation, or future generations? It cannot. We will all move on.
I love your writing and your reflections on Judaism. Have you been published? Here a link for submissions to Tablet Magazine. Your couple of posts seemed like the beginning of an interesting series. http://www.tabletmag.com/about (I'm not affiliated w/Tablet. Your writing just reminded me of their style.)
Anonymous
09/25/2016 00:06
Subject: Re:Raising an adopted child Jewish
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it. [/quote]
You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.[/quote]
Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...[/quote]
We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point. [/quote]
Your point is incredibly unclear
-NP[/quote]
You obviously aren't Jewish.[/quote]
What's your point? You are having a discussion with Jewish and non Jewish people alike. It is weird to accuse people of missing the point when by your own admission they shouldn't be able to understand your point anyway.
Also, just FYI, responding to every comment with "you obviously aren't Jewish" is both unhelpful and rude. You sound like you need some therapy for your dep-seated anger issues. [/quote]
Judaism is viewed very differently than Christianity and the customs and many other beliefs are very different, including blood lines If it is not something you are a part of directly or indirectly, you have no bearing on this conversation. [/quote]
Np here. I think it's time for the Jewish people to have an exclusively Jewish forum. Bloodline Jews only would be allowed to partipate. No goys, no converts, no half-breeds. Enough is enough. I am sick to death of
having to be Jewish to understand things like "what if my baby doesn't feel Jewish as an adult" and other similar crises
You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.[/quote]
Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...[/quote]
We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point. [/quote]
Your point is incredibly unclear
-NP[/quote]
You obviously aren't Jewish.[/quote]
What's your point? You are having a discussion with Jewish and non Jewish people alike. It is weird to accuse people of missing the point when by your own admission they shouldn't be able to understand your point anyway.
Also, just FYI, responding to every comment with "you obviously aren't Jewish" is both unhelpful and rude. You sound like you need some therapy for your dep-seated anger issues. [/quote]
Judaism is viewed very differently than Christianity and the customs and many other beliefs are very different, including blood lines If it is not something you are a part of directly or indirectly, you have no bearing on this conversation. [/quote]
Np here. I think it's time for the Jewish people to have an exclusively Jewish forum. Bloodline Jews only would be allowed to partipate. No goys, no converts, no half-breeds. Enough is enough. I am sick to death of
having to be Jewish to understand things like "what if my baby doesn't feel Jewish as an adult" and other similar crises
Anonymous
09/24/2016 23:10
Subject: Re:Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:I don't think it will be any issue. Conversion of infants/toddlers is really no big deal, and you will raise the child as your own Jewish child. They will not know any different. At our synagogue there are children who are Asian, Hispanic, and Black. No one bats an eye. Adoption is quite common here nowadays.
Plenty of born Jews ha astray of Judaism once they get older for a variety of reasons. It's an issue in Judaism as a whole because it's such a small community.
I wouldn't let this Dowcourage you from adopting. It's not like your kid won't know they are adopted.
+1 The most important thing is that you wouldn't want to treat your adopted child differently and make him/her feel like it wasn't possible to be a part of the family traditions and do the things the family does. Of course, you would celebrate Jewish holidays with the kid and make that kid a part of your family like you would any other child! I think your perception of adoption seems to be like you're hosting an exchange student, not making a person a permanent part of your family. You need to rethink this if you really want to adopt.
I also don't think of most religions as having an "ethnic" or "country of origin" basis (Judaism is a bit different, obviously), so it would seem odd to think you would need to even consider taking a kid to church because he/she was adopted from a place like Mexico or France or was an American of non-Jewish heritage. I think your point about possibly trying to teach some traditions from the child's birthplace is worth considering if you adopt internationally, but I don't see that as extending to religion in a traditional sense (and can't imagine situations where that would be very common anyway). If the kid were adopted from China, for example, you might consider enrolling him/her in a Chinese language class (and also learning some yourselves as other members of the family), and maybe you would want to celebrate Chinese New Year or something. I can't imagine you're saying it would be uncomfortable for you to celebrate a holiday like this (I think you're referring to things like Christmas, Easter, etc., which have a more religious focus).
Anonymous
09/24/2016 22:38
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
Hi OP,
I am Jewish as is my husband, and we have two bio children and one who was adopted from China. She is 11. Since most Chinese aren't raised in a religion, I never felt like I took her relgion away from her. As far as I know, she feels just as Jewish as her brother and sister.
Whether that will change as she grows older, I do not know, and if it does, whether it will be as a result of not being born biologically Jewish, I also do not know. She is currently pretty enthusiastic about our religion. And, in fact, just came in the room while I was typing this and asked me, "Mom, am I getting my own siddur?" When I answered affirmatively, she said, "Yay!" She will be starting studies for her Bat Mitzvah next year.
If I had to guess, I'd say my son (the youngest child) is the one who feels least connected to our religion. He is very logical and doesn't believe the bible stories. Even if I tell him that he doesn't need to take them at face value, he still thinks they're dumb.
My point? Your child might feel no connection to Judaism or s/he might. And that is also true of your biological child.
Best of luck to you!
I am Jewish as is my husband, and we have two bio children and one who was adopted from China. She is 11. Since most Chinese aren't raised in a religion, I never felt like I took her relgion away from her. As far as I know, she feels just as Jewish as her brother and sister.
Whether that will change as she grows older, I do not know, and if it does, whether it will be as a result of not being born biologically Jewish, I also do not know. She is currently pretty enthusiastic about our religion. And, in fact, just came in the room while I was typing this and asked me, "Mom, am I getting my own siddur?" When I answered affirmatively, she said, "Yay!" She will be starting studies for her Bat Mitzvah next year.
If I had to guess, I'd say my son (the youngest child) is the one who feels least connected to our religion. He is very logical and doesn't believe the bible stories. Even if I tell him that he doesn't need to take them at face value, he still thinks they're dumb.
My point? Your child might feel no connection to Judaism or s/he might. And that is also true of your biological child.
Best of luck to you!
Anonymous
09/24/2016 20:40
Subject: Re:Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.
You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.
Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...
We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point.
Your point is incredibly unclear
-NP
You obviously aren't Jewish.
What's your point? You are having a discussion with Jewish and non Jewish people alike. It is weird to accuse people of missing the point when by your own admission they shouldn't be able to understand your point anyway.
Also, just FYI, responding to every comment with "you obviously aren't Jewish" is both unhelpful and rude. You sound like you need some therapy for your dep-seated anger issues.
Judaism is viewed very differently than Christianity and the customs and many other beliefs are very different, including blood lines If it is not something you are a part of directly or indirectly, you have no bearing on this conversation.
Anonymous
09/24/2016 20:21
Subject: Re:Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.
You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.
Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...
We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point.
Your point is incredibly unclear
-NP
You obviously aren't Jewish.
What's your point? You are having a discussion with Jewish and non Jewish people alike. It is weird to accuse people of missing the point when by your own admission they shouldn't be able to understand your point anyway.
Also, just FYI, responding to every comment with "you obviously aren't Jewish" is both unhelpful and rude. You sound like you need some therapy for your dep-seated anger issues.
Anonymous
09/23/2016 19:35
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:We are Jewish and we have a biological child, age 3. After struggling with secondary infertility for 2 years it seems that we cannot have anymore children (I have uterus problems that cannot be treated). We would love to adopt but my concern is about raising a child in the Jewish faith who was not born Jewish. Namely, is it fair to the child to raise him/her Jewish when they were not born from Jewish birthparents? Would they always feel different/out of place in the family or feel that Judaism wasn't the right fit for them, since they wouldn't be choosing to convert? When you adopt from another country I know that it's important to introduce your child to the traditions/culture of her home country, so she doesn't lose that part of her heritage. Would the same be true of religion, and if so, how would we do this given that we do not feel comfortable celebrating non-Jewish holidays or attending church services?
We are not very religious (reform) but Judaism is very important to us and being a member of the Jewish community is central to our family life. Our child will go to Hebrew/Sunday school, have a B'nai Mitzvah, etc., and being involved in the synagogue is very important to us.
My husband, who is also Jewish, has an adopted sister from a South American country who as an adult no longer considers herself Jewish, married a non-Jewish man, and is raising her kids in the Christian faith. I have a first cousin who is adopted (family is Jewish), and he married a non-Jewish woman and considers himself to be Christian and is raising his kids Christian. I guess I look at these two family members who are adopted and who chose not to continue being Jewish and to raise their kids in their birth faith and I wonder if my child would feel similarly.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
How were those two treated by Jews? You might want to find out. I can say from experience marrying into a Jewish family that Jews can be very close minded, ignorant, and rude to "outsiders" and can have a real persecution/chosen ones complex. If I ever divorce DH, I will never again so much as date a Jew. We are raising our children Jewish, but I have no doubt that the ignorance of so many Jews will eventually alienate my kids from the religion and culture.
Anonymous
09/23/2016 12:23
Subject: Re:Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.
You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.
Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...
We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point.
Your point is incredibly unclear
-NP
You obviously aren't Jewish.
Anonymous
09/23/2016 12:14
Subject: Re:Raising an adopted child Jewish
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.
You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.
Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...
We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point.
Your point is incredibly unclear
-NP
Anonymous
09/22/2016 23:03
Subject: Raising an adopted child Jewish
too much clowning with religion