Anonymous wrote:Yup, no room for doubt, unfortunately. there were pictures of her with my grandparents captioned with their (unique and ethnic) names in the scan of one of the newspaper pages! My grandparents were of the generation who looked and dressed exactly the same from age 30 until their deaths. I can't imagine what poor news conglomerate intern got stuck scanning backissues of this tiny newspaper, but they were thorough.

The things the poster said about NPD moms making stuff up and telling you what you think is very accurate. "Oddly cruel" is also accurate- for a few weeks while my dad was traveling and I was in late elementary school my mom told me I was adopted, even though I am not. She kept the tale going for days and had me convinced it was true. when she let my dad in on the "joke" I think he forced her to drop it.

More flippant but illustrative: I remember loving certain things as a kid but suppressing them or choosing the exact opposite of what I preferred because my mom would say I liked x, or was a so-and-so kind of person. Choosing my adult wardrobe when I finally had a paycheck was so confusing and I spent a few years changing my style completely every 6 months. I still feel like I'm trying on identities and figuring out what's me versus what she's said is me. Whew.

My mom is similar. She would be convinced that I said I liked such-and-such, would tell everybody that, and god forbid I say "that's not what I said" or "actually, I like...." I spent years and years and years convinced I had the worst memory. She was (and is) so insistent that I said I wanted or liked these things. Only as an adult am I able to see it as her projecting her wants and desires on me and being a control issue.

She still does this to me as an adult! But now I just don't care about her hissy fits about me asserting myself. The luxury of age and distance, I suppose. I really do think she believes, has convinced herself that these things actually happened. I see it in other aspects of her life. Lying about her past (although not to the level of your mother!), but I think she convinces herself these lies are true, that they actually happened--they are true to her. It's very frustrating to me to sit there and listen to her present herself in a certain way and know it's not true. Heck, sometimes it's not even "just" an embellished version of the truth; it's flat out lies.

Anonymous wrote:How do wedding announcements suggest someone didn't work for years?

More interestingly: How do you find so much shit in Google?

OP, get off Google. Go support your kids in their critical moments. You'll be a better mother for this.

Anonymous wrote:OP here- a friend just suggested researching NPD. I know it's everyone's favorite diagnosis here, but yeah, I was blown away. Seems like a strong possibility but it puts the burden on working through this squarely on me (which is fine, just a lot to process!).

The burden of working this out will always be on you, no matter what. You can't change her and confronting her will not help. She was not a good mother to you (with or without secrets in her past) but you will not hear that from her. I agree with researching NPD and considering therapy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the middle-aged PP. Not really interested in providing too many details but I'll provide one. My grandparents weren't married. One set were single and the other set called themselves married, lived their whole lives together but never got the piece of paper (basically common-law but it wasn't recognized in their country). So my parents were ashamed of being "illegitimate" and hid that/ lied about it.

Even as recently as 30 years ago in this country, people were often made to feel intense shame about being illegitimate. It's not surprising at all that they wanted to keep that fact hidden. I wouldn't hold it against them.

I agree with you. That's why I said I don't think my parents were narcissistic; I think they were ashamed and didn't want that for their kids. I don't know all the lies. I have stumbled upon a few and the big ones are all like this or thing that are none of my or my siblings' business. But there were also a lot of little things they 'protected' us from-- we weren't told of a cousin who was born from a relative's affair, they would wait to tell us about people who died or got seriously ill if it was near exam time because they didn't want us to do badly on tests. In short, my parents white-washed a lot of stuff for us and, when I went off to college, I was naive and not very good at handling things. To this day, I have a hard time trusting my gut and sometimes trust some people too much and don't trust people who can be trusted. So whether it's intentional or not, it has consequences.

PP here. I can appreciate what you're saying but will add that it seems they loved you, and their intentions were good and a consequence of how life was at that time. I have a younger friend whose sister died as a young teen. Basically, her parents tried to carry on with life and focus on their surviving daughter. No one in the family had any counseling to work through their grief. My friend was very resentful for a long time came to realize that it's what was expected 30 - 40 years ago.

Thank you for this. Yes, they loved me. My parents are elderly so we're talking stuff that happened a very long time ago. It probably was better that I didn't know one of the things and I have chosen not to pass it along. But as far as the illegitimacy, it's a bit hard for me not to see them as hypocritical. When I was a teenager, I got pregnant and they made it the end of the world and insisted I abort. Under what I now realize were the circumstances (that they themselves had been born outside of marriage), I wish they had been more accepting but, in reality, I think a lot of it was about themselves-- how ashamed *they* felt and how they wouldn't want to feel that shame again, this time because their daughter was pregnant.

I can understand your feeling that it was all about them and I'm sure that was only one component of what they were feeling. It's easy for us to forget how powerful shame could be, cutting off paths to survival like housing and jobs. It was culturally and legally acceptable to believe that an unwed mother (and her child/ren) should be punished. Even today, you can peruse any of the public school threads on DCUM and look at how freely people heap their scorn on single mothers. I'm sure your parents felt it was a burden none of you could handle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the middle-aged PP. Not really interested in providing too many details but I'll provide one. My grandparents weren't married. One set were single and the other set called themselves married, lived their whole lives together but never got the piece of paper (basically common-law but it wasn't recognized in their country). So my parents were ashamed of being "illegitimate" and hid that/ lied about it.

Even as recently as 30 years ago in this country, people were often made to feel intense shame about being illegitimate. It's not surprising at all that they wanted to keep that fact hidden. I wouldn't hold it against them.

I agree with you. That's why I said I don't think my parents were narcissistic; I think they were ashamed and didn't want that for their kids. I don't know all the lies. I have stumbled upon a few and the big ones are all like this or thing that are none of my or my siblings' business. But there were also a lot of little things they 'protected' us from-- we weren't told of a cousin who was born from a relative's affair, they would wait to tell us about people who died or got seriously ill if it was near exam time because they didn't want us to do badly on tests. In short, my parents white-washed a lot of stuff for us and, when I went off to college, I was naive and not very good at handling things. To this day, I have a hard time trusting my gut and sometimes trust some people too much and don't trust people who can be trusted. So whether it's intentional or not, it has consequences.

PP here. I can appreciate what you're saying but will add that it seems they loved you, and their intentions were good and a consequence of how life was at that time. I have a younger friend whose sister died as a young teen. Basically, her parents tried to carry on with life and focus on their surviving daughter. No one in the family had any counseling to work through their grief. My friend was very resentful for a long time came to realize that it's what was expected 30 - 40 years ago.

Thank you for this. Yes, they loved me. My parents are elderly so we're talking stuff that happened a very long time ago. It probably was better that I didn't know one of the things and I have chosen not to pass it along. But as far as the illegitimacy, it's a bit hard for me not to see them as hypocritical. When I was a teenager, I got pregnant and they made it the end of the world and insisted I abort. Under what I now realize were the circumstances (that they themselves had been born outside of marriage), I wish they had been more accepting but, in reality, I think a lot of it was about themselves-- how ashamed *they* felt and how they wouldn't want to feel that shame again, this time because their daughter was pregnant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the middle-aged PP. Not really interested in providing too many details but I'll provide one. My grandparents weren't married. One set were single and the other set called themselves married, lived their whole lives together but never got the piece of paper (basically common-law but it wasn't recognized in their country). So my parents were ashamed of being "illegitimate" and hid that/ lied about it.

Even as recently as 30 years ago in this country, people were often made to feel intense shame about being illegitimate. It's not surprising at all that they wanted to keep that fact hidden. I wouldn't hold it against them.

I agree with you. That's why I said I don't think my parents were narcissistic; I think they were ashamed and didn't want that for their kids. I don't know all the lies. I have stumbled upon a few and the big ones are all like this or thing that are none of my or my siblings' business. But there were also a lot of little things they 'protected' us from-- we weren't told of a cousin who was born from a relative's affair, they would wait to tell us about people who died or got seriously ill if it was near exam time because they didn't want us to do badly on tests. In short, my parents white-washed a lot of stuff for us and, when I went off to college, I was naive and not very good at handling things. To this day, I have a hard time trusting my gut and sometimes trust some people too much and don't trust people who can be trusted. So whether it's intentional or not, it has consequences.

PP here. I can appreciate what you're saying but will add that it seems they loved you, and their intentions were good and a consequence of how life was at that time. I have a younger friend whose sister died as a young teen. Basically, her parents tried to carry on with life and focus on their surviving daughter. No one in the family had any counseling to work through their grief. My friend was very resentful for a long time came to realize that it's what was expected 30 - 40 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the middle-aged PP. Not really interested in providing too many details but I'll provide one. My grandparents weren't married. One set were single and the other set called themselves married, lived their whole lives together but never got the piece of paper (basically common-law but it wasn't recognized in their country). So my parents were ashamed of being "illegitimate" and hid that/ lied about it.

What stopped them from getting married?
I mean , if it's a source of shame, why didn't they Marry?

I don't know the truth. I never met my grandparents. From what I can gather, in one case, my grandfather dumped my grandmother for someone else but I have wondered there was an affair element to it although everyone denies that.

In the other case (the common law ones), my parent said their parents were too poor to marry but my grandparents first kids were born before the depression and I've always heard stories about how they were rich before the depression but lost everything. I don't know if my grandparents were ashamed. I do know my parent was ashamed. My grandparents were together their whole life and had six kids so I don't get it either. The one thing I do know is that a couple of my grandmother's sisters and my mom's cousins were in common-law situations or had kids born out of wedlock. The country had a reported very low illegitimacy rate though so I don't get it. (My great-grandparents were married so some did marry.) Again, I really just don't know the truth.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the middle-aged PP. Not really interested in providing too many details but I'll provide one. My grandparents weren't married. One set were single and the other set called themselves married, lived their whole lives together but never got the piece of paper (basically common-law but it wasn't recognized in their country). So my parents were ashamed of being "illegitimate" and hid that/ lied about it.

What stopped them from getting married?
I mean , if it's a source of shame, why didn't they Marry?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the middle-aged PP. Not really interested in providing too many details but I'll provide one. My grandparents weren't married. One set were single and the other set called themselves married, lived their whole lives together but never got the piece of paper (basically common-law but it wasn't recognized in their country). So my parents were ashamed of being "illegitimate" and hid that/ lied about it.

Even as recently as 30 years ago in this country, people were often made to feel intense shame about being illegitimate. It's not surprising at all that they wanted to keep that fact hidden. I wouldn't hold it against them.

I agree with you. That's why I said I don't think my parents were narcissistic; I think they were ashamed and didn't want that for their kids. I don't know all the lies. I have stumbled upon a few and the big ones are all like this or thing that are none of my or my siblings' business. But there were also a lot of little things they 'protected' us from-- we weren't told of a cousin who was born from a relative's affair, they would wait to tell us about people who died or got seriously ill if it was near exam time because they didn't want us to do badly on tests. In short, my parents white-washed a lot of stuff for us and, when I went off to college, I was naive and not very good at handling things. To this day, I have a hard time trusting my gut and sometimes trust some people too much and don't trust people who can be trusted. So whether it's intentional or not, it has consequences.