No time.

Anonymous wrote:The meetings are a turn off. There are new parents who are full of new ideas who are mostly white at a predominantly minority school. They volunteer for everything immediately and suggest fundraisers that would not appeal to the majority of parents. Guess what, they usually leave by K and a new set of parents come in- same thing all over again.

So why don't the predominantly minority parents get involved and change things?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No interest, not a joiner. I'm happy to write you a check, but it's not clear to me that "parent engagement" per se improves the school. If there's a specific thing you want me to do (like clean up the school yard, take a role in a fundraiser) I'm likely to pitch in. But just "be involved" for the sake of being involved? No.

Who do you think organizes those clean up activities, or coordinates fund raising? These things don't magically happen -- they take commitment of time and energy from parents like yourself. No one is forcing you to join, but your dismissive attitude towards people who make these things happen is the bigger issue than parents trying to contribute positively towards their school communities.

the issue is whether the "these things" that you are making happen are worth my time. sometimes I don't think they are. my time is valuable, and I'm not going to waste it on activities that are just presumed virtuous and positive simply because they are backed by a desire to "contribute."

anyway, OP asked the question and I'm answering! I am not likely to get involved if it's an emotional/community/"show we care" type thing. I am more likely to get involved if it is clearly related to a tangible benefit, like a garden for the school or money to pay for aides.

So you basically agree that some of the activities DO improve the school

Since you agree that school cleanup days and fundraising are both "worth" your time and money, again I'd ask you how those things get organized? So many parents bitch about their PTOs but these are the people making these activities happen, soliciting volunteers and donors. It's not the school administration making this happen. It's hardly "cheerleading" even if getting spirited buyin may help these causes.

Honestly, the only reason I don't participate is that I don't have time. All the planning and organizing happens in the morning, which is when I most often have meetings at work that I can't miss. Once things are up and running, I don't see the value of just dropping in when I can - I don't know the other parents, I don't know what they're working on, I don't know what I can offer. I also don't want to commit to something when I'm not certain I can follow through.

Our charter requires families to volunteer at least 20 hours during the year. But often, the volunteer opportunities come up with only a week or two of notice when there's already something on the calendar. I like the idea that a PP suggested above - put events on the school calendar for the entire year and provide opportunities that don't require presence. I'd be happy to stuff envelopes or send emails, develop marketing materials. I'm more likely to show up for something that I can plan for at least a month in advance.

I also think allowing parents to call in to meetings is a good one.

Because I think it's dumb. I have better things to do.

Anonymous wrote:High ranking PTA mom excluded my child from a birthday party to which all children child's age in child's class were invited. My child has mild special needs but is never mean or aggressive. Those are the kind of moms who join our PTA.

I hope you called her out!

The meetings are a turn off. There are new parents who are full of new ideas who are mostly white at a predominantly minority school. They volunteer for everything immediately and suggest fundraisers that would not appeal to the majority of parents. Guess what, they usually leave by K and a new set of parents come in- same thing all over again.

High ranking PTA mom excluded my child from a birthday party to which all children child's age in child's class were invited. My child has mild special needs but is never mean or aggressive. Those are the kind of moms who join our PTA.

Not interested. School is for kids, not for parents.
Yes, I'll write a check.
I'm home with a toddler during the day and work nights and weekends. I have 0 time to come and help.

Anonymous wrote:http://www.pta.org/members/content.cfm?ItemNumber=2230

"PTAs are not an additional funding sources for goods, services and payroll for public schools. School funds should be supplied by governmental entities. PTAs advocate for the adequate funding of schools from governmental sources. They do not replace funds not supplied by governments. Therefore, supplies purchased using PTA funds should be given directly to children, not to teachers."

That is for schools who have official PTA membership groups. Most DC PTAs are really HSAs or PTOs etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A NPR story on the radio featuring this article:

http://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2014/12/16/54797/pasadena-schools-experiment-with-charlas-to-help-students-by-coaching-their-parents/

"“We found that most forms of parental involvement yield no benefit to children’s test scores or grades regardless of their racial or ethnic background or socioeconomic status.”
Robinson found traditional activities like attending PTA meetings didn’t help.
But he said a few things can make a difference.
“The list of what consistently works is pretty short. That would be expecting your child to go to college, regularly discussing activities that your child engages in at school and requesting a particular teacher for your child,” he said."

Really? So they extra teachers, books, resources and specialists that the PTA pays for don't help?

Aristotle did fine without all of that and I have not seen extra teachers rain from the sky due to the PTA's spaghetti fund raiser.

Wait, what? Aristotle? You mean the privileged ancient Greek who had personal tutoring until he went to the Platonic Academy at 17? That Aristotle?

Meanwhile many of the WOTP schools PTAs pay for extra staff.

There are 111 DCPS schools. What happens at the 5-6 wealthiest elementary schools simply isn't possible, applicable or even advisable everywhere else.

Personally I wish DCPS wouldn't allow for staff supplementation with PTA funds as it sets up inequities and skewed expectations everywhere else. If classroom staffing levels are too low - fix it district wide by increasing funding for schools (and give the charters a few more per student too, while we're at it).

I see. So PTAs at rich schools are useful, but totally unnecessary for the other poor schools. For those, it is a waste of time.

No one said it's a waste of time. But don't assume that what is needed / works best at a wealthy school is what's needed at a poor school.

IMO the single most important 'additional staff member' that could be hired at a poor school would be another social worker or counselor (getting it approved to be parent funded would be a challenge). This would not, however, necessarily be a staff person that your higher SES child would deal with very much if at all. But they could probably make a huge difference in the lives of his/her classmates and help ensure that some of the challenges they face at home aren't brought into the classroom and let the principal focus on academics more.

But that isn't the kind of stuff that high SES parents think to fund. Field trips, gardens, ballet and so forth are nice but aren't going to improve the schools' test scores, or the school culture and climate.

Huh? You're mixing apples and oranges here. The rich schools are spending funds on the things that they believe matter to their kids- extra teachers, enrichment teachers-- which certainly do raise scores. (The PTA doesn't pay for field trips at our school.) A poor school might choose to spend that money differently. And that would be fine.

The point is, a PTA and its funds can make a difference if focused on the needs of the school. Our school needs enrichment-- so that's what our PTA has helped to address.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to figure this out, since parent engagement is notoriously difficult. What is preventing you? Is it that events are of no interest to you? Is it that events are held at times that are inconvenient for you? Is it that you just don't feel that that kind of engagement is important?

I am talking about events at all times. Some people can't make morning meetings. Some people can't make evening meetings. Some people don't care about anything beyond their own child's classroom but are very involved there. Some people feel that it's enough to just send a check and leave it at that. Some people donate $0 but a lot of time. Some people donate $0 and also 0 time.

What is stopping you?

PTA meetings are very often boring and provide little additional information that could not be read from other sources or received by speaking to someone directly.

For events, lots of parents don't like participating in kid activities and do not like dealing with other people's kids especially in a big group. Many times these activities are pretty boring for the adults. If you have limited free time to begin with, spending do an activity you dislike is not going to be top of your "to do" list.

My child is out of elementary school now but my advice to those who are there now - be selective in the type of events the PTA puts on each year. If each year, the PTA is begging for parent helpers, then do not put it on the calendar for the next year. Learn to use technology better. If you want parents to donate goods of some type to something, have someone on the PTA set up a Amazon wish list and let parents buy and ship the stuff straight to the school or a PTA member's home. Use audio conference for PTA meetings so that parents who can't make it can still listen if they would like.

Yes.

Anonymous wrote:http://www.pta.org/members/content.cfm?ItemNumber=2230

"PTAs are not an additional funding sources for goods, services and payroll for public schools. School funds should be supplied by governmental entities. PTAs advocate for the adequate funding of schools from governmental sources. They do not replace funds not supplied by governments. Therefore, supplies purchased using PTA funds should be given directly to children, not to teachers."

Somethings never change here is an article from 2000: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2000/04/17/ptas-give-some-dc-schools-an-edge/18437c7a-caee-40b8-8074-9cc2959418e5/

"Parents at Horace Mann Elementary School in Northwest Washington have found a way to do what the public school system could not: cut class sizes to 15 students and teach their kids to sing. The PTA asked parents to donate $950 a child, organized other fund-raisers and then spent $144,000 to hire seven teaching assistants and a part-time vocal instructor.

At Stanton Elementary in Southeast Washington, the PTA in the low-income neighborhood can barely scrape up a few thousand dollars to pay for awards ceremonies, let alone hire teachers to reduce the average class size of 25 students.

While one affluent community can share its wealth, the poorer one has no choice but to rely almost entirely on what the government provides. The disparities that result are seen at Mann and Stanton, where the available tools for learning are directly linked to the wealth or poverty of the neighborhood."

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to figure this out, since parent engagement is notoriously difficult. What is preventing you? Is it that events are of no interest to you? Is it that events are held at times that are inconvenient for you? Is it that you just don't feel that that kind of engagement is important?

I am talking about events at all times. Some people can't make morning meetings. Some people can't make evening meetings. Some people don't care about anything beyond their own child's classroom but are very involved there. Some people feel that it's enough to just send a check and leave it at that. Some people donate $0 but a lot of time. Some people donate $0 and also 0 time.

What is stopping you?

PTA meetings are very often boring and provide little additional information that could not be read from other sources or received by speaking to someone directly.

For events, lots of parents don't like participating in kid activities and do not like dealing with other people's kids especially in a big group. Many times these activities are pretty boring for the adults. If you have limited free time to begin with, spending do an activity you dislike is not going to be top of your "to do" list.

My child is out of elementary school now but my advice to those who are there now - be selective in the type of events the PTA puts on each year. If each year, the PTA is begging for parent helpers, then do not put it on the calendar for the next year. Learn to use technology better. If you want parents to donate goods of some type to something, have someone on the PTA set up a Amazon wish list and let parents buy and ship the stuff straight to the school or a PTA member's home. Use audio conference for PTA meetings so that parents who can't make it can still listen if they would like.

I was never active while my oldest was in ES because my younger kids were babies (4.5 year gap between kid 1 and 2, then kid 3 is 2 years younger) and I didn't want to pay for childcare to go volunteer at school. I'm also an extreme introvert and all those type A super organized moms intimidate the hell out of me. I'm also not great with kids (except my own) and don't feel comfortable volunteering in the classroom.

If there was a clear need I'd try to do more, but our ES is overrun with parents. I think some of them are there so much they should pay rent.

I have always sent in the financial contribution our school asks for at the beginning of the year in lieu of fundraisers. I also participate by bringing food, coffee, etc. for teacher appreciation week, december holidays, etc. Sometimes its cookies, sometimes it's a crockpot full of homemade soup, or a giant salad. We own our own business and have purchased ads in the directory.

Now my youngest is in Kindergarten I will try to attend PTO meetings--in the past they were always the same time as preschool pickup. I'm also going to start volunteering in the school library--but do work P/T and that has to come first.