Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Delete the other woman's info, get rid of the texts, be completely open in terms of letting your wife see your phone, your texts, emails, etc. Don't ever say "I'm going out" but be specific and let her know where you're going.

Basically, be HONEST and TRANSPARENT. Be patient.

All thie ^^^
Making amends after 7 months of texting & flirting with an ex is going to take time. A lot of time. Keep being there for her.

I like that you are going to therapy. That will help.

How about you ask your wife what she wants to see from you?

I already did and she doesn't want to feel like she has to tell me how to make amends. I should already know how and it has to be my own ideas. I am stuck here other than setting up date nights or a weekend trip. I'm not winning any points for the day to day help that makes her life easier.

So she expects you to be a mind reader? That's helpful.

No, she expects OP to put his own energy into figuring out how to make amends. He broke it, he shouldn't make her spend time thinking of ways to fix it. Plus, if he is just doing what she tells him to, it is inauthentic. He is not doing it because HE wants to and HE thinks it would be a good idea, he is doing it because he was told to do it and if he does it he thinks the forgiveness box is checked off.

As previous PPs note, OP seems to view himself as a subordinate in this relationship. He is "helping" with the baby. He is "being supportive". Etc. All this sounds good on the surface -- "I am a good guy, I help." -- but the reality underneath is that OP is not an all in, equal partner.

OP, it sounds like the revelation of the cheating prompted your wife to evaluate the relationship. He is what she saw: "Hmm. I don't have an equal partner in parenting. I don't have a reliable and trustworthy intimate partner. I am a financial equal and can take care of myself and our kid financially. So, why the hell am I married? I should just get out of this crappy relationship where I am putting in more effort and care than my partner. I don't want to live like that for the rest of my life. I don't want to teach my kids to expect so little in life. The kids and I would be better off divorced. "

BTW, on the "she doesn't believe I didn't sleep with the ex" problem. Why should she trust your answer on this? You have already demonstrated your untrustworthiness. Who in their right mind trusts a known liar (you)? You can only say to your wife, "What I did was very wrong, and I am trying to fix myself so that it never happens again. I want you to know that I didn't meet or sleep with this woman, and that I never intended or thought about doing so. I can understand why you don't believe me though given what I did do. I want you to know that I am fully committed to you and to the extent it can allay your fears, you have full access to my phone, texts, emails, whereabouts, etc., forever. "

And, finally, if you really don't understand that what you did was cheating, you need much more time in therapy. What you did was manipulative -- you kept something secret from your wife you knew she wouldn't like in order to avoid her reacting in a way that you wouldn't like. Responsible adults don't behave like that. It's called "intimate betrayal," and it's abusive and can be traumatic, especially when the partner is in a vulnerable, dependent position (like being a new mom where she is dependent on the husband for economic and parenting support). Read up on it.

Anonymous wrote:Give her time.

Once trust is fully eroded between two people, regaining it is a tough call.

Some people can eventually forgive the other person after the other person attempts to rebuild trust.

Others simply cannot overcome the stinging betrayal.

It's a risk that anyone who is untrue takes.

I wouldn't bribe her w/material items & trips.

What she wants from you is intangible.

She wants the full ability to TRUST you again.

This is all true. My husband betrayed me, and while I forgive him (it took years) and I'm definitely better off for it, I wont' fully love him again.

Give her time.

Once trust is fully eroded between two people, regaining it is a tough call.

Some people can eventually forgive the other person after the other person attempts to rebuild trust.

Others simply cannot overcome the stinging betrayal.

It's a risk that anyone who is untrue takes.

I wouldn't bribe her w/material items & trips.

What she wants from you is intangible.

She wants the full ability to TRUST you again.

Anonymous wrote:[bout the day, weekend plans, cooking, and fantasy football.

2) She isn't insecure in that way. But breaking her trust has put her into an emotional spiral. I told her it was totally my fault and a one time thing.

OP which is it - was it completely your fault or does your wife need to "admit what she's done wrong"?

You sound like a child. I would also want a divorce; a grown man shouldn't need to be told how to keep the household running and how to demonstrate loyalty and remorse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I essentially did the same thing, even though I love my spouse very much. I had a weakness with this one person from my past who I should never have allowed back into my life, even as a friend. It took a good three months until we weren't talking about it and shedding tears about it every day. My spouse never wanted out of the marriage over it, though, that I know of.

What helped was for me to offer complete transparency, which I continued to do to this day, about 9 months later. I also answered all questions openly, honestly, and without being upset that the questions were asked in the first place. I think it also helped that my spouse saw how upset I was, saw the regret and shame I felt. I also went into counseling, which we are now doing together.

It sounds like the difference for you is that your spouse does not seem to want to work on the marriage. Is that true? Are there other major issues within your marriage that you have not mentioned? For us--and I know some people will call BS on this -- but we were actually pretty happy before this happened. Not perfect, but happy and in a loving marriage. What's your history?

If you're both willing to work on the marriage, to express yourselves openly, and to show vulnerabilities, you can heal from this. Dig deeper in order to get to know each other more. Just a short 9 months later my spouse and I are doing so much better, but we have both worked for it.

OP here. Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what happened with this particular person. She doesn't really want to work on the marriage b/c she doesn't think she did anything wrong. It took several weeks to get her to come to counseling and it went better than I thought this past weekend. But out of the session, she is expecting that I am already planning everything out and jumping through hoops.

We were pretty happy in the marriage before this happened just like you. She will work on it, but only if I am able to demonstrate my love. I just need to know what she considers amends so that I am not grasping at straws.

I am the PP you are responding to. The thing is, she didn't do anything to "deserve" your emotional affair or whatever the two of you have decided to call it. My spouse did nothing to cause me to have an emotional affair, either. My spouse did a lot of self-blaming even though I always take 100% responsibility, offering no excuses. Now, throughout the counseling process we have discovered the weaknesses in our marriage. We haven't focused on finger-pointing, but rather strengthening ourselves as individuals and strengthening our marriage. It has allowed us to focus on each of our needs within the relationship, and what the other can do in order to fulfill them. This was sure a shitty way to go about it, and I wouldn't recommend it, but we are ending up stronger because of my emotional affair and the ensuing work we have put into our marriage.

It sounds like the difference is that your wife wants you to just fix things. This is the thing that sucks about affairs. You are the one who betrayed your spouse, but the betrayed spouse, however innocent, has to do a lot of the work in order to heal things. The affair is your fault, but because it is a marriage, you can't fix it by yourself. You both need to do the work. That was the hardest part of what I did-- knowing that I could not just fix everything I fucked up, but that a huge part of the onus was on my innocent spouse.

Helpful response. You are right. Both parties have to want to work on it even the betrayed spouse.

PP again. I thank my lucky stars every day that my husband really wanted to fix things, and saw this as an opportunity to step back and evaluate our marriage. I would never in a million years blame my spouse for what I did, and I hope there is no longer any self-blaming going on either. My spouse is a saint.

Your wife is understandably hurt and angry. May I ask how long ago this happened?

I wonder what exactly she wants you to do in order to fix things. Or maybe she doesn't want to save your marriage, was she already looking for a way out before this?

OP's wife could've been the most demanding and PITA spouse/mom ever, but now she gets to be St. Cheated-Upon who will bring this up for YEARS after the fact and quite possibly have an affair of her own.

Or, OP changed a diaper once six months ago and considers himself exhausted from helping so much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I essentially did the same thing, even though I love my spouse very much. I had a weakness with this one person from my past who I should never have allowed back into my life, even as a friend. It took a good three months until we weren't talking about it and shedding tears about it every day. My spouse never wanted out of the marriage over it, though, that I know of.

What helped was for me to offer complete transparency, which I continued to do to this day, about 9 months later. I also answered all questions openly, honestly, and without being upset that the questions were asked in the first place. I think it also helped that my spouse saw how upset I was, saw the regret and shame I felt. I also went into counseling, which we are now doing together.

It sounds like the difference for you is that your spouse does not seem to want to work on the marriage. Is that true? Are there other major issues within your marriage that you have not mentioned? For us--and I know some people will call BS on this -- but we were actually pretty happy before this happened. Not perfect, but happy and in a loving marriage. What's your history?

If you're both willing to work on the marriage, to express yourselves openly, and to show vulnerabilities, you can heal from this. Dig deeper in order to get to know each other more. Just a short 9 months later my spouse and I are doing so much better, but we have both worked for it.

OP here. Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what happened with this particular person. She doesn't really want to work on the marriage b/c she doesn't think she did anything wrong. It took several weeks to get her to come to counseling and it went better than I thought this past weekend. But out of the session, she is expecting that I am already planning everything out and jumping through hoops.

We were pretty happy in the marriage before this happened just like you. She will work on it, but only if I am able to demonstrate my love. I just need to know what she considers amends so that I am not grasping at straws.

I am the PP you are responding to. The thing is, she didn't do anything to "deserve" your emotional affair or whatever the two of you have decided to call it. My spouse did nothing to cause me to have an emotional affair, either. My spouse did a lot of self-blaming even though I always take 100% responsibility, offering no excuses. Now, throughout the counseling process we have discovered the weaknesses in our marriage. We haven't focused on finger-pointing, but rather strengthening ourselves as individuals and strengthening our marriage. It has allowed us to focus on each of our needs within the relationship, and what the other can do in order to fulfill them. This was sure a shitty way to go about it, and I wouldn't recommend it, but we are ending up stronger because of my emotional affair and the ensuing work we have put into our marriage.

It sounds like the difference is that your wife wants you to just fix things. This is the thing that sucks about affairs. You are the one who betrayed your spouse, but the betrayed spouse, however innocent, has to do a lot of the work in order to heal things. The affair is your fault, but because it is a marriage, you can't fix it by yourself. You both need to do the work. That was the hardest part of what I did-- knowing that I could not just fix everything I fucked up, but that a huge part of the onus was on my innocent spouse.

Helpful response. You are right. Both parties have to want to work on it even the betrayed spouse.

OP: your 9:34 comment that "I wish it were that salacious."

Be honest. For seven months you were in contact with this person as the messages got more flirty. Were you trying to get it to a sexual level and you just got found out before it could escalate? And do you miss your text friend even as you're trying to make amends?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I essentially did the same thing, even though I love my spouse very much. I had a weakness with this one person from my past who I should never have allowed back into my life, even as a friend. It took a good three months until we weren't talking about it and shedding tears about it every day. My spouse never wanted out of the marriage over it, though, that I know of.

What helped was for me to offer complete transparency, which I continued to do to this day, about 9 months later. I also answered all questions openly, honestly, and without being upset that the questions were asked in the first place. I think it also helped that my spouse saw how upset I was, saw the regret and shame I felt. I also went into counseling, which we are now doing together.

It sounds like the difference for you is that your spouse does not seem to want to work on the marriage. Is that true? Are there other major issues within your marriage that you have not mentioned? For us--and I know some people will call BS on this -- but we were actually pretty happy before this happened. Not perfect, but happy and in a loving marriage. What's your history?

If you're both willing to work on the marriage, to express yourselves openly, and to show vulnerabilities, you can heal from this. Dig deeper in order to get to know each other more. Just a short 9 months later my spouse and I are doing so much better, but we have both worked for it.

OP here. Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what happened with this particular person. She doesn't really want to work on the marriage b/c she doesn't think she did anything wrong. It took several weeks to get her to come to counseling and it went better than I thought this past weekend. But out of the session, she is expecting that I am already planning everything out and jumping through hoops.

We were pretty happy in the marriage before this happened just like you. She will work on it, but only if I am able to demonstrate my love. I just need to know what she considers amends so that I am not grasping at straws.

I am the PP you are responding to. The thing is, she didn't do anything to "deserve" your emotional affair or whatever the two of you have decided to call it. My spouse did nothing to cause me to have an emotional affair, either. My spouse did a lot of self-blaming even though I always take 100% responsibility, offering no excuses. Now, throughout the counseling process we have discovered the weaknesses in our marriage. We haven't focused on finger-pointing, but rather strengthening ourselves as individuals and strengthening our marriage. It has allowed us to focus on each of our needs within the relationship, and what the other can do in order to fulfill them. This was sure a shitty way to go about it, and I wouldn't recommend it, but we are ending up stronger because of my emotional affair and the ensuing work we have put into our marriage.

It sounds like the difference is that your wife wants you to just fix things. This is the thing that sucks about affairs. You are the one who betrayed your spouse, but the betrayed spouse, however innocent, has to do a lot of the work in order to heal things. The affair is your fault, but because it is a marriage, you can't fix it by yourself. You both need to do the work. That was the hardest part of what I did-- knowing that I could not just fix everything I fucked up, but that a huge part of the onus was on my innocent spouse.

Anonymous wrote:OP, two things aren't really clear:

1)What is this "grey area" you talk about regarding the contact. Was it mostly sexual: you are so hot, I would love to have sex with you again. Or was it emotional: I miss us, I made a mistake marrying Larla, I will always love you. If its the latter, that is a much bigger deal than the former.

2) is your wife insecure and controlling or is this totally out of the blue for her?

Because what you describe doing - having flirty conversations with an ex who lives 1000 miles away, is a misdemeanor level offense in the context of a long marriage. Its wrong, its hurtful, but her reaction of wanting a divorce is crazy if that's all it was. Which leads me to believe either your messages said something other than the typical "you are so hot, I wish we could screw" or your wife has some massive issues. And if its because she has issues, your are in for a long, rough ride buddy.

1) I wish it was that salacious. It was flirting in the rated R sense. Mostly innuendos, complimenting on FB pictures, and how she looked hot. While sexy, we didn't talk about sex. We didn't share any feelings of spouses or about wanting to be together again. To be honest, the majority of them was just companionship - so talked about the day, weekend plans, cooking, and fantasy football.

2) She isn't insecure in that way. But breaking her trust has put her into an emotional spiral. I told her it was totally my fault and a one time thing. I'm not out looking for people to flirt. The only controlling thing is not having any alone time, practically never. But its understandable as there are lots to do with a young one. But there were no guys nights, happy hours etc, weekend trips etc.

Anonymous wrote:Your therapist recommended a grand gesture?

Fire him/her and find a new one.

Exactly.

She doesn't want a grand gesture, she wants you to talk to her and flirt with her like you did with that other person. That will take time. Give her access to your phone whenever she wants it.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I essentially did the same thing, even though I love my spouse very much. I had a weakness with this one person from my past who I should never have allowed back into my life, even as a friend. It took a good three months until we weren't talking about it and shedding tears about it every day. My spouse never wanted out of the marriage over it, though, that I know of.

What helped was for me to offer complete transparency, which I continued to do to this day, about 9 months later. I also answered all questions openly, honestly, and without being upset that the questions were asked in the first place. I think it also helped that my spouse saw how upset I was, saw the regret and shame I felt. I also went into counseling, which we are now doing together.

It sounds like the difference for you is that your spouse does not seem to want to work on the marriage. Is that true? Are there other major issues within your marriage that you have not mentioned? For us--and I know some people will call BS on this -- but we were actually pretty happy before this happened. Not perfect, but happy and in a loving marriage. What's your history?

If you're both willing to work on the marriage, to express yourselves openly, and to show vulnerabilities, you can heal from this. Dig deeper in order to get to know each other more. Just a short 9 months later my spouse and I are doing so much better, but we have both worked for it.

OP here. Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what happened with this particular person. She doesn't really want to work on the marriage b/c she doesn't think she did anything wrong. It took several weeks to get her to come to counseling and it went better than I thought this past weekend. But out of the session, she is expecting that I am already planning everything out and jumping through hoops.

We were pretty happy in the marriage before this happened just like you. She will work on it, but only if I am able to demonstrate my love. I just need to know what she considers amends so that I am not grasping at straws.

OP, two things aren't really clear:

1)What is this "grey area" you talk about regarding the contact. Was it mostly sexual: you are so hot, I would love to have sex with you again. Or was it emotional: I miss us, I made a mistake marrying Larla, I will always love you. If its the latter, that is a much bigger deal than the former.

2) is your wife insecure and controlling or is this totally out of the blue for her?

Because what you describe doing - having flirty conversations with an ex who lives 1000 miles away, is a misdemeanor level offense in the context of a long marriage. Its wrong, its hurtful, but her reaction of wanting a divorce is crazy if that's all it was. Which leads me to believe either your messages said something other than the typical "you are so hot, I wish we could screw" or your wife has some massive issues. And if its because she has issues, your are in for a long, rough ride buddy.

Ask your wife what she would like to see from you to make amends. Does she want fully access to emails, cell phones, be copied on all communications with other women, etc.

I am going through something similar with DH. What has helped me is DH coming up with a plan on how he was going to rebuilt trust, rebuild our bond etc. It took him six months to really get that I wanted this plan but it shows he is finally taking this process seriously. I haven't found couples therapy terribly helpful. She only helped get my husband to understand that his online flirtation was wrong from the beginning since he was hiding it from me. Husband kept claiming he didn't know it was wrong until towards the end of it. Counselor seemed to get him out of this way of thinking.

I too threatened a separation when I found out. Was it an over-action at the time, yes. It was all the hurt and anger coming out. I was caught up in my emotions. It didn't help that DH was vague on a lot of details and had lied to me earlier about his interaction with his flirt buddy.

Anyhow, you must maintain transparency in all your interactions with your wife. Let her cry it out with you and be there to hold her and not make excuses or get defensive. Let her know you are genuinely sorry for the pain you have caused her.

Good luck to you OP. I hope you and your wife can work it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are truly not getting it, and are just offering excuses. "I was resentful because I was helping out so much." "I was trying to support her by doing overnight wake ups."

You are an equal partner in this relationship, and in parenting. You are not 'helping out.' You are not 'supporting her.' You are supposed to be a parent - which means waking up with your kid. Which means cleaning the house after your wife grew and pushed out a human. These are things that you just do - these are not grand gestures.

If I were your wife, and these were the excuses you were giving me, I'd divorce you SO fast.

Yeah, that's a load of horse shit. Parenting and marriage is not 50-50. That's divorce. Marriage and parenting is 100% all the time. DW and I just did what needed to be done when it needed to be done without worrying over whose turn it was or how much the other person had been doing. Of course there where days when I came home from work and she handed DC to me and said, "I need a break." That's just the way it is. Having kids means neither the mom or the dad is number 1 in their spouse's eyes for a few years.

Resentful for helping out? "Supporting" her by doing what you're supposed to be doing? What do you want, a fucking cookie? (reminds me of a Chris Rock stand up a long time ago)

I'm the PP you're quoting, and yep, pretty much all of this.

Even before we had kids - you do what needs to be done, and there are no rewards because these aren't special things you're doing. You're running the household that you decided to create together. Sometimes I get annoyed if DH spends all of Saturday farting around on the computer while I do chores. But then the next week, I might feel like watching all of Chopped. Or, you know, one of us is sick or was up with the kid all night. That's marriage. It's keeping the boat afloat - not tallying how many things you're supposed to do before you get a prize. It's not making your wife in charge of the household stuff, so that you're 'helping out' and not also in charge. You do what needs to be done - even if sometimes you're doing 'more than your share.'