Anonymous wrote:To move up you need to

1. Get a good education, school choice is more important. Get a brand name education. Limit your debt as much as you can

2. Choose a field with income potential. More 'do what you need to do' and less 'do what you love'. No art history.

3. Make good, informed choices about where you work and what you do. Build a resume

4. Make good choices when spending money, where you live and who you marry.

5. Find a mentor who is successful and from a similar background. Should be successful and at least 15 years older than you. Someone in a position to help when you need it and be your advocate.


You need to have drive and ambition and you need to act in you own self interests. There will hopefully be time later for balance but early in your career, you need to grind.

+1 and a lot of it, is also luck !!! BUT, staying debt free, drug free and no gambling we picked up from our parents keep us grounded.

Anonymous wrote:To move up you need to

1. Get a good education, school choice is more important. Get a brand name education. Limit your debt as much as you can

2. Choose a field with income potential. More 'do what you need to do' and less 'do what you love'. No art history.

3. Make good, informed choices about where you work and what you do. Build a resume

4. Make good choices when spending money, where you live and who you marry.

5. Find a mentor who is successful and from a similar background. Should be successful and at least 15 years older than you. Someone in a position to help when you need it and be your advocate.


You need to have drive and ambition and you need to act in you own self interests. There will hopefully be time later for balance but early in your career, you need to grind.

This is great advice if you want to be UMC, but miserable, hating every day.

1) Get a good education. Pedigree really does not matter after 2 years of work, so go to the best school you can afford. Also, the only thing that matters is the location of the terminal degree. A PhD from Caltech after a BA from SW Louisiana State is a PhD from Caltech. Undergrad is to get into grad school. It is perfectly acceptable to go to NOVA then UVA or Va Tech.

2) In Undergrad, become a well rounded person. Find your passion. Pursue it. Learn what you are great at. Art history is ok, but understand the opportunities. Get a well rounded education -- in addition to the art courses take courses in math and physics. And business.

3) Pursue a graduate education in a field that has opportunities but you love. If you love art, focus on the business of art,

4) At work, put yourself in a position to excel. Know what you are good at, and volunteer for projects that are in your sweet spot. Just because it is easy for you does not mean it is easy for everyone.

5) Don't waste money: think of everything as an investment. Lock in expenses where you can: you will continue to need a place to live; if you can buy a place. As rents go up, your housing costs are fixed. (e.g., buy a house -- protection from inflation).

Anonymous wrote:I think the key to wealth begetting wealth is to:
- have high expectations from your children
- spend the time with them to pass along the good habits that helped you achieve success

I've worked with several millionaires and multi-generation millionaires, and I've seen the difference that time and energy put into their children has resulted in successful vs. failure to thrive adults.

All the other boards on DCUM would belie this, however. Real estate, private schools, general parenting, AAP, etc. -- it's all about a) buying in the best school district, b) getting your kids into the "best" public or private schools, c) getting them into competitive sports, d) finding the right tutoring programs, e) finding the right summer activities for enrichment, and f) doing the best college prep to get them into the most prestigious college. If you want to call that "having high expectations" and "spending time to pass along good habits" then fine, but that's a very pretty way to describe something much more calculating and de-personal, which is spending whatever money you've got to position your kids for success.

Thousands and thousands of posts on DCUM reveal the true priorities of wealthy parents. What's the "best" neighborhood? What's the "best" feeder school? Who is the "best" tester to get the score to get into the program? Who is the "best" college counselor? That's not "passing along values." It's figuring out how to buy your kids whatever support and access you can.

To move up you need to

1. Get a good education, school choice is more important. Get a brand name education. Limit your debt as much as you can

2. Choose a field with income potential. More 'do what you need to do' and less 'do what you love'. No art history.

3. Make good, informed choices about where you work and what you do. Build a resume

4. Make good choices when spending money, where you live and who you marry.

5. Find a mentor who is successful and from a similar background. Should be successful and at least 15 years older than you. Someone in a position to help when you need it and be your advocate.


You need to have drive and ambition and you need to act in you own self interests. There will hopefully be time later for balance but early in your career, you need to grind.

Moving from MC to UMC is pretty easy -- the answer is education. A professional degree or advanced degree. Almost all MD's are in UMC. Many Lawyers are (if they are working as Lawyers). Scientists and Engineers? Often (I am with an HHI of 200K). The secret is to be good at what you do.

The other secret is to not live extravagantly. I was house poor the first 5 years of my career -- but I fixed my housing costs at 2K/month. Now, salary much higher, and my housing budget is less than food or even medical care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everywhere I see the well-to-do people around me are people who come from privileged backgrounds. The lawyer who's father was a doctor; the chemical engineer who's family is blue blooded; the foreign policy adviser who's father was a VP at Morgan Stanley; the aerospace engineer with an oil industry executive for a dad etc.

Where does this leave regular, middle class people? Can we hope to rise? Why or why not?

Yes, generational wealth can be a good stepping stone, but much more important is the up bringing. If the parents do not raise their kids to be successful, then the kids will be failures. I know of a billionaire whose son is a playboy, never really worked, ever. I know of a successful real estate developer whose daughter is an admin assistant at age 35 making barely any money, but is getting a lot of support form the parents.

On the other hand, most of the successful doctors, lawyers, and business people I know are first generation success. They came from diverse and humble backgrounds and became successful after a dedicated life of hard work and discipline. Most of them are raising their kids to follow in their steps.

The class mobility in the US is very good, as you can see it flows both ways.

THAT's the real compound interest.

Anonymous wrote:I think the key to wealth begetting wealth is to:
- have high expectations from your children
- spend the time with them to pass along the good habits that helped you achieve success

I've worked with several millionaires and multi-generation millionaires, and I've seen the difference that time and energy put into their children has resulted in successful vs. failure to thrive adults.

I always tell my kids that debt is a thief - of options, freedom, piece of mind. I hope it sinks in.

I think the key to wealth begetting wealth is to:
- have high expectations from your children
- spend the time with them to pass along the good habits that helped you achieve success

I've worked with several millionaires and multi-generation millionaires, and I've seen the difference that time and energy put into their children has resulted in successful vs. failure to thrive adults.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes it does. But it is also absolutely possible to rise to that from different upbringing. Lots of factors contribute, but the most important is the desire from within the individual person.

This is such crap.
- wealthy person from wealthy family

Just because you don't think you would have made it without your wealthy family doesn't mean it can't be done.
- Upper class immigrant who came with nothing from urban poverty overseas.

OP, education is still the most powerful factor in lifting the fortunes of the next generation. If your kids can't tell whose from who's and its from it's - you gave them a poor start in life. Select the best school you can afford and be militant about good grades.

Being militant about good grades and anal about grammar does not work for everybody. It makes the kids, in turn, anal and risk averse. They are most likely to go on to become things like doctors, engineers, or lawyers- successful enough but hardly wealthy, most of the time. It takes existing/generational wealth and/or a particularly entrepreneurial or creative personality to create wealth. I say this as a first generation immigrant who came here lower middle class. My parents busted their butts and have a decent estate, but they are hardly wealthy. They raised me and my siblings to value the same things they did, like education and hard work. We are doing fairly well, but like them, we are hardly wealthy.

+1 wealthy people can afford to be creative and I think that entrepreneurship has the most potential.

Poor reading comprehension, clearly. Go re-read OP's post. The question is how middle class folks can move up. That's what's being discussed. Not becoming 0.01%, but moving up from middle class.

Every time I can, I explain financial concepts in detail to my teenagers. The other day I was explaining compounding. Financial literacy is very important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes it does. But it is also absolutely possible to rise to that from different upbringing. Lots of factors contribute, but the most important is the desire from within the individual person.

This is such crap.
- wealthy person from wealthy family

Just because you don't think you would have made it without your wealthy family doesn't mean it can't be done.
- Upper class immigrant who came with nothing from urban poverty overseas.

OP, education is still the most powerful factor in lifting the fortunes of the next generation. If your kids can't tell whose from who's and its from it's - you gave them a poor start in life. Select the best school you can afford and be militant about good grades.

Of course it CAN be done. But to say that 'the will' is more important than the massive head start that some people are given in life is not only untrue but, frankly, pretty offensive.

You can come from a wealthy family and be loser with no job if you don't have the desire or ambition to succeed in life. You can come from the gutter and take advantage of any resource you can to get ahead and do better in life than previous generations of your family.

Does wealth help? Absolutely, which is why I said that yes, wealth begets wealth. But I know people who banked on their trust funds that have nothing in life now and I know people that started with nothing and worked their asses off with determination to succeed.

The next biggest thing that makes a difference is luck.

+1 agree, completely true

Yes. We have friends that are extremely wealthy. They own businesses. They send their children to high end private schools where their children can make "connections" and the cycle then repeats itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everywhere I see the well-to-do people around me are people who come from privileged backgrounds. The lawyer who's father was a doctor; the chemical engineer who's family is blue blooded; the foreign policy adviser who's father was a VP at Morgan Stanley; the aerospace engineer with an oil industry executive for a dad etc.

Where does this leave regular, middle class people? Can we hope to rise? Why or why not?

Is this a trick question? You knew the answer before you asked.

You can do it - my parents never made it out of 10th grade (and neither did any of their brothers and sisters). I ended up with a PhD in economics from a top 20 school.

Of course, it started 30 years ago - when I could work the whole summer making $3.50 per hour (500 hours) and that would pay for me to go to an elite level high school (which doesn't happen now), which start me to an elite undergrad college (which was paid for through grants, work study and loans).

I also did drive a car until I graduate from undergrad in acccounting (and got a job with the Big Six).

Depends what kind of sacrifices - and how badly you want it.

There is a book called "The Triple Package" - it is about immigrants - but applies to poor US kids too. Three things you need: 1) chip on your shoulder 2) belief in your own exceptionalism 3) impulse control.

You'll never hear the Democrats talk about it though... in fact, Bernie Sanders says there are no poor white people. Damn, if we weren't poor (and without affirmative action boosts) I don't know what we were....

Anonymous wrote:Everywhere I see the well-to-do people around me are people who come from privileged backgrounds. The lawyer who's father was a doctor; the chemical engineer who's family is blue blooded; the foreign policy adviser who's father was a VP at Morgan Stanley; the aerospace engineer with an oil industry executive for a dad etc.

Where does this leave regular, middle class people? Can we hope to rise? Why or why not?

Is this a trick question? You knew the answer before you asked.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes it does. But it is also absolutely possible to rise to that from different upbringing. Lots of factors contribute, but the most important is the desire from within the individual person.

This is such crap.
- wealthy person from wealthy family

Just because you don't think you would have made it without your wealthy family doesn't mean it can't be done.
- Upper class immigrant who came with nothing from urban poverty overseas.

OP, education is still the most powerful factor in lifting the fortunes of the next generation. If your kids can't tell whose from who's and its from it's - you gave them a poor start in life. Select the best school you can afford and be militant about good grades.

Being militant about good grades and anal about grammar does not work for everybody. It makes the kids, in turn, anal and risk averse. They are most likely to go on to become things like doctors, engineers, or lawyers- successful enough but hardly wealthy, most of the time. It takes existing/generational wealth and/or a particularly entrepreneurial or creative personality to create wealth. I say this as a first generation immigrant who came here lower middle class. My parents busted their butts and have a decent estate, but they are hardly wealthy. They raised me and my siblings to value the same things they did, like education and hard work. We are doing fairly well, but like them, we are hardly wealthy.

+1 wealthy people can afford to be creative and I think that entrepreneurship has the most potential.