Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 00:40     Subject: Re:Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:Multiple history books you've probably never read.

This thread isn't about what I think should be done about this now. It's about the HONY posting and people saying that the problems all started when the West got involved in the Middle East.

My point in this thread is that this is a narrative that is being used as a false and deliberate excuse because the problems started way before.


The current problems started when the west conspired with Zionist terrorists to establish Israel ostensibly for not stopping the Holocaust but more likely to rid Europe of the remaining Jews by creating a homeland
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 00:32     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
I thought today's was far better and related. A lawyer described his ten years of working for the UN as a human rights lawyer and how nothing ever got done. He quit in frustration and started a bar

The UN started as a good idea but has caused horrible problems around the world.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 21:03     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:9/11 was beyond horrific. But I wasn't surprised like other Americans. I'm an Army brat and grew up all over the world. I always knew other people hated us.


My girlfriend in college was furious with me because we were at a party and we met a guy who worked in the WTC and I asked him if he'd considered changing jobs because someone was eventually going to blow those buildings up. :-/
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 20:17     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:He's not wrong about how the West's meddling in the Middle East contributed to the rise of fundamentalism.


+1



Yeah, I could understand his point of view until he said 9/11 was deserved. We've really got to get ourselves out of this cycle of answering a wrong with another wrong..... 9/11 was heinous.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 19:59     Subject: Re:Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:Multiple history books you've probably never read.


Which ones?

Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 19:54     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:9/11 was beyond horrific. But I wasn't surprised like other Americans. I'm an Army brat and grew up all over the world. I always knew other people hated us.



+1
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 17:18     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11

Actually it was pretty stable- especially compared to Europe from about the 13th century through the end of WW1.


No, there was plenty of instability in the OE in the 19th c, which was quite a different time from earlier centuries. In particular the last few years before WW1 saw the Young Turk coup, and an attempted counter coup.



Ppl need to stop apologizing for US involvement- what we did in Iran was disgusting, what we did in Iraq was disgusting- Secularism (The Baathist agenda) is always stuffed down people's throats. even here- look at the religious pushback against LGBT rights.


I am not sure what this means.

people have the right to self determination- ALL people, even brown ones. We routinely take that away from people.



Er,no we do not . Though in fact the right to self determination does not exist in international law. The right of states to sovereignty does, which is something quite different.


If people are ready for democracy they need to fight and bleed and die for it.


Many peoples have achieved democracy without bleeding and dying for it. Not every democracy is a result of violent revolution.

If ppl (the MAJORITY of Chinese/Majority of UAE subjects/Majority of DANES) like their government they can keep it,


And if they do not like it, they will likely keep it anyway. Overthrowing a dictatorship is not that simple, though it happens.

its not the right of some outside force to come liberate them.


While you are broadly correct about international law, there is no particular reason it has to be that way. Certainly under international law a state CAN act internally to liberate people. And when open fighting has taken place within a state, IE a civil war, it is routine for outsiders to intervene, although the international law is complicated.

As an example- we can't just remove women from abusive situations, we have to support them but they have to make the choice on their own.


Well we could, but in our particular society we choose not to. Anyway I don't think the ethics of how we treat domestic abuse, good or bad, necessarily extends to international affairs.


And no the Mujahidin/Taliban were very much supported by the US.


Except US intervention ended before the Taliban were formed, and not all mujahadin joined the taliban. in particular Sheik Massoud, leader of a large part of the mujahadin, fought against and was killed by the Taliban
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 17:17     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
9/11 was beyond horrific. But I wasn't surprised like other Americans. I'm an Army brat and grew up all over the world. I always knew other people hated us.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 17:08     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11

Well, whoever that person is, he's factually inaccurate.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to people like that.

Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 17:01     Subject: Re:Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Multiple history books you've probably never read.

This thread isn't about what I think should be done about this now. It's about the HONY posting and people saying that the problems all started when the West got involved in the Middle East.

My point in this thread is that this is a narrative that is being used as a false and deliberate excuse because the problems started way before.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 14:18     Subject: Re:Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No. There has been terrorism in the 'name of Islam' for centuries prior, just under different names. And yes, some people like to label that now as simply 'political expansion' of the past, well that could be said of today then too. The massacres, the torture, the genocide, the barbaric tactics are IDENTICAL to history long before the Ottoman Empire was reshuffled.

But it's a nice excuse and way to belittle the lives of 3000 innocent lives lost. Be the aggressor then play the victim and point the blame. How people buy into this crap is mind boggling.


Examples?

Or are you talking about how whites have always invaded the area for centuries i.e. The Crusades?


You know that the main religion in Iran used to be Zorastrianism right? Where did they all flee too? Lots of Buddhists and Hindu kingdoms previously in Afghanistan, where did they all disappear too? Jews used to live in Medina, not anymore...

Ask the Sikhs about their history with Islamic terrorism under Aurangzeb. How Guru Gobind Singh's two young sons, under age 10, were bricked alive between two walls. How babies had their limbs cut off and the mothers were forced to wear their dead babies parts as garlands. How Sikhs were literally boiled alive in hot water or hot oil. How they were scalped alive to remove their hair.

Ask the Hindus how walls consisting of the heads of beheaded people would be built. How priests were beheaded and their heads attached to beheaded cows. Why are the Hindu Kush mountains named as such? It's actual meaning is mountain of Hindu slaughter. Read into Gazwa Al Hind. The directive for the mujahadeen to conquer India in the establishment of the Caliphate.

A mirror of what is happening now as a redirective to establish a caliphate, this time the target has greatly expanded. Gazwa Al the world.

Both previously or now, some can say it's mere political expansion. Others say is religion. The thing is, there is no separation between politics and religion in Islam (hence Sharia), so arguing which one it is is pointless. It was and is all terrorism.

There is a lot of studies on Western European history and most people have very little knowledge of history (beyond Western whitewashed versions) of the rest of the world.

Either way, excuses for the terrorism by attacking innocent people and then saying "well it's your fault we attacked" is disgusting.




Do you have any sources for this? And what do you suggest we do now?


Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 14:11     Subject: Re:Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No. There has been terrorism in the 'name of Islam' for centuries prior, just under different names. And yes, some people like to label that now as simply 'political expansion' of the past, well that could be said of today then too. The massacres, the torture, the genocide, the barbaric tactics are IDENTICAL to history long before the Ottoman Empire was reshuffled.

But it's a nice excuse and way to belittle the lives of 3000 innocent lives lost. Be the aggressor then play the victim and point the blame. How people buy into this crap is mind boggling.


Examples?

Or are you talking about how whites have always invaded the area for centuries i.e. The Crusades?


You know that the main religion in Iran used to be Zorastrianism right? Where did they all flee too? Lots of Buddhists and Hindu kingdoms previously in Afghanistan, where did they all disappear too? Jews used to live in Medina, not anymore...

Ask the Sikhs about their history with Islamic terrorism under Aurangzeb. How Guru Gobind Singh's two young sons, under age 10, were bricked alive between two walls. How babies had their limbs cut off and the mothers were forced to wear their dead babies parts as garlands. How Sikhs were literally boiled alive in hot water or hot oil. How they were scalped alive to remove their hair.

Ask the Hindus how walls consisting of the heads of beheaded people would be built. How priests were beheaded and their heads attached to beheaded cows. Why are the Hindu Kush mountains named as such? It's actual meaning is mountain of Hindu slaughter. Read into Gazwa Al Hind. The directive for the mujahadeen to conquer India in the establishment of the Caliphate.

A mirror of what is happening now as a redirective to establish a caliphate, this time the target has greatly expanded. Gazwa Al the world.

Both previously or now, some can say it's mere political expansion. Others say is religion. The thing is, there is no separation between politics and religion in Islam (hence Sharia), so arguing which one it is is pointless. It was and is all terrorism.

There is a lot of studies on Western European history and most people have very little knowledge of history (beyond Western whitewashed versions) of the rest of the world.

Either way, excuses for the terrorism by attacking innocent people and then saying "well it's your fault we attacked" is disgusting.


Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 13:48     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
Anonymous wrote:If he really thinks it's deserved, then he should volunteer to get on a plane and deliver himself to Isis for a "representative" execution of us all.

I don't disagree with the history. We are to blame for a lot of the mess in the world today. A LOT. But leaping from that to all the random victims of 9/11 deserving death? That's how a terrorist thinks.


Well, that man is probably now on the no fly list and being watched by the FBI, for sure.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 13:44     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
If he really thinks it's deserved, then he should volunteer to get on a plane and deliver himself to Isis for a "representative" execution of us all.

I don't disagree with the history. We are to blame for a lot of the mess in the world today. A LOT. But leaping from that to all the random victims of 9/11 deserving death? That's how a terrorist thinks.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2016 13:40     Subject: Yesterday's controversial Humans of NY posting about 9/11
I think HONY is observational art. Snapshots (visual and anecdotal) presented without judgment.

Many of his series' have been remarkable in their impact but the origin of HONY is in the unfiltered observational eye.

I think it was really gutsy of Brandon (the HONY guy) to put that up there - as it was guaranteed to incite strong reactions.

I'm an avid follower of HONY and yesterday stopped me in my tracks and really made me think. A lot.

In the end, perhaps that was the point. Right?