Would you consider opening up the marriage? She might be more willing than you'd expect to agree to it. If my DH had asked during one of our dry spells, I would have told him to go for it. Hell, I still would. IMO monogamy is unnatural.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as most normal/healthy people can not be celibate.

That's completely false. They certainly can. They may not want to, and it may not be pleasurable to be celibate, but normal/healthy people can certainly be celibate.

You will not die from celibacy.

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

Anonymous wrote:as most normal/healthy people can not be celibate.

That's completely false. They certainly can. They may not want to, and it may not be pleasurable to be celibate, but normal/healthy people can certainly be celibate.

You will not die from celibacy.

Why do you need her to "give" you a hall pass?
Why haven't you just "declared" the marriage is open?
This would be the only possible way to save your marriage, as most normal/healthy people can not be celibate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

This was me (I'm the wife), so I found an affair partner. Now my exH can spend his time doing whatever he wants and I can spend my energy on sex. Win win.

Likewise; husband here. I easily do well over half of the housework and chores at this stage -- there's no correlation between the two. Repeated initiations -- not just at sex, but cuddling, snuggling, PDA, etc -- over multiple months yielded multiple rejections. After sitting down and having a long discussion, it comes out that she's just not interested in having sex -- with anyone -- anymore. She spelled out her rationalization, which will stay between the two of us. I sympathize and feel sorry for her, but I'm basically looking at a sexless marriage for a long, long time -- we've got a young daughter who I want to be around, and the idea of divorce and split custody is heartbreaking.

It isn't sex. it is sex with you. I say this as a wife. Women are not meant to be monogamous.

Did she give you a hall pass??

Chances are that we have a monogamy bell curve with people who are promiscuous at one end, polyamorous along one end of the rise, begrudingly or reluctantly monogamous folks in the middle, and demisexuals on the other end of the rise, with happy monogamists at the other far end.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

This was me (I'm the wife), so I found an affair partner. Now my exH can spend his time doing whatever he wants and I can spend my energy on sex. Win win.

Likewise; husband here. I easily do well over half of the housework and chores at this stage -- there's no correlation between the two. Repeated initiations -- not just at sex, but cuddling, snuggling, PDA, etc -- over multiple months yielded multiple rejections. After sitting down and having a long discussion, it comes out that she's just not interested in having sex -- with anyone -- anymore. She spelled out her rationalization, which will stay between the two of us. I sympathize and feel sorry for her, but I'm basically looking at a sexless marriage for a long, long time -- we've got a young daughter who I want to be around, and the idea of divorce and split custody is heartbreaking.

It isn't sex. it is sex with you. I say this as a wife. Women are not meant to be monogamous.

Did she give you a hall pass??

In her case, it is the act of sex in general. It's tied up in other issues that have gotten progressively worse, which to my discredit, I had not picked up on until our discussion -- things that I think she certainly needs outside help with. However, to some extent, it doesn't matter if it's "sex" in general, or "sex with me" -- the end result is the same from my perspective -- no shared physical closeness -- and I've told her that, too.

No hall pass was given. Scheduled sex was discussed, but the underlying causes are such that there's now bit of block for me as well -- like I said, I truly sympathize and feel sorry for her.

PP here who was describing how to try to initiate slowly with your wife. Now you've added new facts. The whole "she doesn't have time for me but has time to train for a marathon" is BULLSHIT, my friend. BULLSHIT.

You're not getting anywhere with her by cuddling on the couch and slowly trying to get your groove back. She has put major road blocks in your way. You guys need to talk. Intimacy is a requirement for many people. You have the right to it and if she chooses not to be the giver than there are steps to take. I know this is hard but you have to confront her on this. In even stronger terms than you have before. And if she's not getting it, then become even more blunt. Sex is as important as dinner. What if she were forbidding you to eat dinner every single night of your life? It wouldn't take you long to say "hey. Wait a minute. I like dinner. I need dinner. And I'd like to eat dinner with you. But if you've decided to give up dinner, that's fine, but that doesn't mean I have to. I guess I'm going to go eat dinner with someone else."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

This was me (I'm the wife), so I found an affair partner. Now my exH can spend his time doing whatever he wants and I can spend my energy on sex. Win win.

Likewise; husband here. I easily do well over half of the housework and chores at this stage -- there's no correlation between the two. Repeated initiations -- not just at sex, but cuddling, snuggling, PDA, etc -- over multiple months yielded multiple rejections. After sitting down and having a long discussion, it comes out that she's just not interested in having sex -- with anyone -- anymore. She spelled out her rationalization, which will stay between the two of us. I sympathize and feel sorry for her, but I'm basically looking at a sexless marriage for a long, long time -- we've got a young daughter who I want to be around, and the idea of divorce and split custody is heartbreaking.

It isn't sex. it is sex with you. I say this as a wife. Women are not meant to be monogamous.

Did she give you a hall pass??

Lot of truth to this. And explains why so many marriages are sexless over time when women are in their sexual prime and should be wearing their husbands out. Doesn't actually have anything to do with how much they love their husbands or even how attracted they are to them. The less aware women are of this the more likely they are to either dry up sexually or cheat and blame it on the husband's lack of (insert perceived shortcoming here).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

This was me (I'm the wife), so I found an affair partner. Now my exH can spend his time doing whatever he wants and I can spend my energy on sex. Win win.

Likewise; husband here. I easily do well over half of the housework and chores at this stage -- there's no correlation between the two. Repeated initiations -- not just at sex, but cuddling, snuggling, PDA, etc -- over multiple months yielded multiple rejections. After sitting down and having a long discussion, it comes out that she's just not interested in having sex -- with anyone -- anymore. She spelled out her rationalization, which will stay between the two of us. I sympathize and feel sorry for her, but I'm basically looking at a sexless marriage for a long, long time -- we've got a young daughter who I want to be around, and the idea of divorce and split custody is heartbreaking.

It isn't sex. it is sex with you. I say this as a wife. Women are not meant to be monogamous.

Did she give you a hall pass??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

This was me (I'm the wife), so I found an affair partner. Now my exH can spend his time doing whatever he wants and I can spend my energy on sex. Win win.

Likewise; husband here. I easily do well over half of the housework and chores at this stage -- there's no correlation between the two. Repeated initiations -- not just at sex, but cuddling, snuggling, PDA, etc -- over multiple months yielded multiple rejections. After sitting down and having a long discussion, it comes out that she's just not interested in having sex -- with anyone -- anymore. She spelled out her rationalization, which will stay between the two of us. I sympathize and feel sorry for her, but I'm basically looking at a sexless marriage for a long, long time -- we've got a young daughter who I want to be around, and the idea of divorce and split custody is heartbreaking.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

This was me (I'm the wife), so I found an affair partner. Now my exH can spend his time doing whatever he wants and I can spend my energy on sex. Win win.

another perspective: you stopped having sex for months at a time, as a result he drifted into asshole mode

if I had a dime for every marriage that's fallen into this cycle, both sides playing the victim

I have a low sex drive and self conscious, and my DH can be an asshole, and as a result we stopped having sex for months at a time.

My solution has been similar to the "Drink wine, have a good easy time." I smoke pot before sex. I'm sure some folks here know what I mean.

Its a blessing to have pot as an aid while we get used to being comfortable together again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

Have you tried doing discretionary stuff with her? That helps couples bond. You don't have to be joined at the hip, but if she's into running and you are a couch potato that might be a big part of the problem. She may feel like you aren't interested in her as a person, just a way to get your rocks off and she might be turned off by your less fit body.

As to the running, I'm more fit than her (though I run fewer miles than she does). She feels self-conscious that she's slowing me down. I don't care, and I like running with her; but it makes her feel awkward, so I don't insist. As to your larger point, yes, we make an effort to do things together. It's a small thing, but my favorite time of the day is walking the dogs together now that the kids are old enough to stay home unattended for a little while. (This does not change the fact that she will fill up any free hours in her day. Her m.o. is to go-go-go until she's exhausted and then crash. She probably gets 9 hours of sleep per day compared to my 7 per day -- if that matters.)

The point being that I don't doubt that some wives want to have sex but have their days filled up by things that have to get done and that they would have more sex if their husbands would take care of some of those life necessities. But I don't think my situation -- having a wife who just isn't interested in making sex a priority -- is that unusual.

So maybe there is another issue at play. Most of the wives I know who have tons of crafts, hobbies, and activities that keep them up all night and leave them worn out either have some mental health issues (bipolar, OCD, or mild hoarding) or they describe their husbands are lousy lovers. Some have both issues.

The vast majority of people enjoy orgasms and don't go to extreme lengths to avoid them. Chances are that she's taking care of her own business (I certainly did when married to a man who was terrible in bed) and you just don't know. And, although I didn't stay up late at night doing discretionary stuff, I went to bed super early and got up super early so that I could avoid having bad sex.

Before I get flamed: No, my ex-husband was never the world's best lover pre-marriage, but he was bad in bed because he developed ED and stopped making an oral effort after we married. Yes, I told and showed him what I liked. No, it wasn't anything weird or unrealistic. Yes, I offered to do what he liked as a quid pro quo. Yes, I asked him to talk to the doctor about the ED. No, I didn't initially hide my BOB, but tried to introduce it to help things out. Yes, he felt threatened by it, but I think women share responsibility for having an orgasm and if your DH won't do oral, you can get help flicking your Bic while he gets the main event he wants. No, I don't regret a single orgasm I had with or without him involved.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, see in my house, taking a load off her doesn't fix anything. She'll just pick up new activities to make her exhausted. At the moment, it's marathon training.

End result is, I end up doing more and more of the necessary stuff, while she ends up doing more and more discretionary stuff that exhausts her and still doesn't result in sex.

So she's literally choosing to do marathon training and then claiming she's too tired for sex.

i didn't know that passive aggressive manipulation had a ninja level.