Anonymous wrote:OP and all the other women here: one of the shittiest aspects of infertility is that we as women -- gay or straight -- have to confront our aging process in a way that other women don't have to, at least immediately. It's pretty awful, considering how much our society values youth.

Just remember, everyone: what has happened to you is terrible, often a mix of bad luck and timing and genetics. But the bad things that have happened don't define us. We have the capacity to set aside this posture of victim hood and be kind to everyone who is suffering from their inability to have the family they want, no matter the reason.

*stepping off soapbox now*

The worst aspect is not being able to have kids, no matter what age (and some people face it in their 20s). It's not aweful to age, it's a natural process. Everybody ages and then dies. Don't bundle IF with the youth obsession, not the same thing at all.

I found great support from IVF Connections. It looks different now so not sure if it's still any good. I'm pretty sure there was a secondary IF support area on it.

If you're looking for a support group IRL check out Heal From Within. http://heal-from-within.com

I found that acupunture helped me a lot mentally and physically.

You could always start your own group via MeetUp.

I found a lot of support on twoweekwait website. They have groups that cycle together and eventually when I started doing IVF, we went through the process together. You get to know the various types and while it is online, it is a really friendly warm atmosphere.

OP and all the other women here: one of the shittiest aspects of infertility is that we as women -- gay or straight -- have to confront our aging process in a way that other women don't have to, at least immediately. It's pretty awful, considering how much our society values youth.

Just remember, everyone: what has happened to you is terrible, often a mix of bad luck and timing and genetics. But the bad things that have happened don't define us. We have the capacity to set aside this posture of victim hood and be kind to everyone who is suffering from their inability to have the family they want, no matter the reason.

*stepping off soapbox now*

OP, I am sorry for all of the people invalidating your feelings, especially the smug poster with IVF twins, trying for a third just above. I have experienced both, primary and secondary infertility, plus loss, and the need to use a surrogate.

The reason why you need a separate group is so that you can have support from people who get it, who understand the pain and grief of not having a sibling for your child, not being able to build the family you desire and everything else that goes along with it. You do not deserve to be judged.

Of course you love and cherish your child! Grief and gratitude can exist together. Maybe try the Resolve boards on Inspire? I think there is a Secondary Infertility board there

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. We are also suffering from secondary infertility and I agree that it would be helpful to find groups who specialize in this.

We are a same sex couple who also struggled with primary infertility. Back then, I remember reading the book Inconceivable and feeling pretty pissed off as I did. I felt similarly to many of the PP's on this thread. I thought, how dare she feel like this when she already has one child.

Then, after our son was born, we paid $25,000 to do shared risk at shady grove. DW got pregnant on the first try - it was like a dream. We lost that baby at 17 weeks due to T21. Then we had several failed cycles. Then two more miscarriages this year.

I don't disagree that primary is brutal - it is. We lived it. But I also think what we have been through is its own hell. And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy. So many online groups we have been a part of have brought us the experience of watching people come and go with BFPs and successful pregnancies while we watch our son get older and while we mark the months and years thinking of how old our other children would have been. We bought a huge new house a few months ago right as DW got her most recent BFP - then had to move in right after her miscarriage with all of our sons old baby clothes and her maternity clothes staring us in the face - as if they were mocking us.

The point of this long response is to say I empathize - and you have every right to grieve the loss of what you wanted your family to be. We haven't given up - hopefully you won't either.

Wait, what? If a lesbian showed up at an infertility support group of any kind I would be perplexed. Of course you can't have an oops pregnancy. Science and all. Of course you have to pay to have a baby. It's not the same as having sex month after month expecting it to work and, nothing. You knew you would have to use ART and it's only a fairly recent thing that even the possibility of you having a child is real. Also, there are two sets of eggs and you choose the sperm and can switch donors if there is an issue.

"Wait, what" poster. I hope you realize how dumb you sound. Same sex couple here and have been battling infertility for the past three years. 3 natural IUIs, 4 medicated IUIs, 4 IVFs and now on 6th FET. Recurrent miscarriages and DOR at age 34. You sound so uneducated and closed minded. Get a grip and get over yourself. So just because I can't procreate with a man, my attempts at conceiving a child are somehow less than yours?

I think people have a hard time wrapping their heads around an infertile lesbian couple because there's that lingering question - are you reeeeeally fertile? A normal healthy couple may need to have sex a lot, many times during their fertile period, for months on end to get pregnant. The procedures you are undergoing may result to only a fraction of what normal couples have to do. So maybe you wouldn't be infertile under normal circumstance? Maybe that's ignorant, just what I'm thinking. That said I'm so sorry that you're struggling. Op too. You guys are right that it's not suffering Olympics but a bruised apple can't be compared to a bruised orange even if they're both in fact damaged. Secondary infertility IS different.

I'm the DW of the PP who posted here and while I can't speak for other same sex couples, I can assure you that we didn't just jump into IVF without trying at home for a year, with fresh sperm, every month after detecting my surge. This followed by about 4-6 months of IUIs. This followed by our first IVF and child, and after our donor contracted HIV, used his previously frozen sperm for 5 more fresh cycles and one FET. Lost babies for 3 of those cycles and now staring down our 6th fresh cycle to TTC #2. So in total 7 fresh IVF cycles and one miraculous live child. I assure you, I am infertile. Might I have gotten pregnant if my donor wasn't HIV+ and I were able to continue trying at home with fresh sperm, a cup and a syringe? Possibly. But I think 6 fresh cycles and no baby is pretty telling.

DW of PP: Massive hearbreak for you! I am so so sorry, especially for your donor! I was just talking to my DH about how this convo opened an interesting can of worms about the differences in experiences between types of IF. I honestly think the GLBT community faces discrimination that is very different from a hetero couple who is going through primary or secondary IF and the pain is altogether unique--costs because insurance won't cover it, donor sperm/egg costs! A surrogate for gay couples. And Trans couples have a whole different set of issues to content with. I think to be frank there has been a spate of secondary IF people who are wining on this board and everyone who has serious medical issues to start with/primary IF get upset because there is that feeling of "holy s***, you have a single child at least! I am doing everything in my power to have a single child!". We know people who have goen through 14 miscarriages and are childless and we know people who have POF and managed to have a baby after numerous rounds of IVF--the point is, we are fighters. We have to be to realize our dream of having a single child. I don't think the OP gets this emotional angst because she can't see past her own nose/issues. And if primary IF people threw a pity party for every set back we would be even more of a mess than we are.

I have IVF twins. And we will try transferring another embie in the next year. Frankly, it is different this time. I hope we have a third from this batch, but if we don't I still have two amazing babies to raise and love and teach. And I am grateful every day that IVF cycle worked. I don't know if OP is grateful every day for her amazing child or if she realizes the psychological damage she is inflicting on her child with her depression--I am so happy to hear she is in therapy!

OP, I wish you well and hope you have a cycle that works!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. We are also suffering from secondary infertility and I agree that it would be helpful to find groups who specialize in this.

We are a same sex couple who also struggled with primary infertility. Back then, I remember reading the book Inconceivable and feeling pretty pissed off as I did. I felt similarly to many of the PP's on this thread. I thought, how dare she feel like this when she already has one child.

Then, after our son was born, we paid $25,000 to do shared risk at shady grove. DW got pregnant on the first try - it was like a dream. We lost that baby at 17 weeks due to T21. Then we had several failed cycles. Then two more miscarriages this year.

I don't disagree that primary is brutal - it is. We lived it. But I also think what we have been through is its own hell. And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy. So many online groups we have been a part of have brought us the experience of watching people come and go with BFPs and successful pregnancies while we watch our son get older and while we mark the months and years thinking of how old our other children would have been. We bought a huge new house a few months ago right as DW got her most recent BFP - then had to move in right after her miscarriage with all of our sons old baby clothes and her maternity clothes staring us in the face - as if they were mocking us.

The point of this long response is to say I empathize - and you have every right to grieve the loss of what you wanted your family to be. We haven't given up - hopefully you won't either.

Wait, what? If a lesbian showed up at an infertility support group of any kind I would be perplexed. Of course you can't have an oops pregnancy. Science and all. Of course you have to pay to have a baby. It's not the same as having sex month after month expecting it to work and, nothing. You knew you would have to use ART and it's only a fairly recent thing that even the possibility of you having a child is real. Also, there are two sets of eggs and you choose the sperm and can switch donors if there is an issue.

"Wait, what" poster. I hope you realize how dumb you sound. Same sex couple here and have been battling infertility for the past three years. 3 natural IUIs, 4 medicated IUIs, 4 IVFs and now on 6th FET. Recurrent miscarriages and DOR at age 34. You sound so uneducated and closed minded. Get a grip and get over yourself. So just because I can't procreate with a man, my attempts at conceiving a child are somehow less than yours?

I think people have a hard time wrapping their heads around an infertile lesbian couple because there's that lingering question - are you reeeeeally fertile? A normal healthy couple may need to have sex a lot, many times during their fertile period, for months on end to get pregnant. The procedures you are undergoing may result to only a fraction of what normal couples have to do. So maybe you wouldn't be infertile under normal circumstance? Maybe that's ignorant, just what I'm thinking. That said I'm so sorry that you're struggling. Op too. You guys are right that it's not suffering Olympics but a bruised apple can't be compared to a bruised orange even if they're both in fact damaged. Secondary infertility IS different.

I'm the DW of the PP who posted here and while I can't speak for other same sex couples, I can assure you that we didn't just jump into IVF without trying at home for a year, with fresh sperm, every month after detecting my surge. This followed by about 4-6 months of IUIs. This followed by our first IVF and child, and after our donor contracted HIV, used his previously frozen sperm for 5 more fresh cycles and one FET. Lost babies for 3 of those cycles and now staring down our 6th fresh cycle to TTC #2. So in total 7 fresh IVF cycles and one miraculous live child. I assure you, I am infertile. Might I have gotten pregnant if my donor wasn't HIV+ and I were able to continue trying at home with fresh sperm, a cup and a syringe? Possibly. But I think 6 fresh cycles and no baby is pretty telling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. We are also suffering from secondary infertility and I agree that it would be helpful to find groups who specialize in this.

We are a same sex couple who also struggled with primary infertility. Back then, I remember reading the book Inconceivable and feeling pretty pissed off as I did. I felt similarly to many of the PP's on this thread. I thought, how dare she feel like this when she already has one child.

Then, after our son was born, we paid $25,000 to do shared risk at shady grove. DW got pregnant on the first try - it was like a dream. We lost that baby at 17 weeks due to T21. Then we had several failed cycles. Then two more miscarriages this year.

I don't disagree that primary is brutal - it is. We lived it. But I also think what we have been through is its own hell. And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy. So many online groups we have been a part of have brought us the experience of watching people come and go with BFPs and successful pregnancies while we watch our son get older and while we mark the months and years thinking of how old our other children would have been. We bought a huge new house a few months ago right as DW got her most recent BFP - then had to move in right after her miscarriage with all of our sons old baby clothes and her maternity clothes staring us in the face - as if they were mocking us.

The point of this long response is to say I empathize - and you have every right to grieve the loss of what you wanted your family to be. We haven't given up - hopefully you won't either.

Wait, what? If a lesbian showed up at an infertility support group of any kind I would be perplexed. Of course you can't have an oops pregnancy. Science and all. Of course you have to pay to have a baby. It's not the same as having sex month after month expecting it to work and, nothing. You knew you would have to use ART and it's only a fairly recent thing that even the possibility of you having a child is real. Also, there are two sets of eggs and you choose the sperm and can switch donors if there is an issue.

"Wait, what" poster. I hope you realize how dumb you sound. Same sex couple here and have been battling infertility for the past three years. 3 natural IUIs, 4 medicated IUIs, 4 IVFs and now on 6th FET. Recurrent miscarriages and DOR at age 34. You sound so uneducated and closed minded. Get a grip and get over yourself. So just because I can't procreate with a man, my attempts at conceiving a child are somehow less than yours?

I think people have a hard time wrapping their heads around an infertile lesbian couple because there's that lingering question - are you reeeeeally fertile? A normal healthy couple may need to have sex a lot, many times during their fertile period, for months on end to get pregnant. The procedures you are undergoing may result to only a fraction of what normal couples have to do. So maybe you wouldn't be infertile under normal circumstance? Maybe that's ignorant, just what I'm thinking. That said I'm so sorry that you're struggling. Op too. You guys are right that it's not suffering Olympics but a bruised apple can't be compared to a bruised orange even if they're both in fact damaged. Secondary infertility IS different.

OP here. I definitely have the gut wrenching sadness, crying, depression feelings, being in the middle of secondary infertility. The feelings of despair that I have stem from the fact that I feel like the door of getting pregnant with my own eggs is now closed because I was diagnosed with premature ovarian failure. I also have disbelief that this is really happening because I have a toddler who I got pregnant with quickly and easily--like how could this possibly be happening when I just gave birth two years ago and now I'm being told that I have no eggs left and need an egg donor?

I've accepted it but am still in the disbelief/depression/overwhelmed stage. This is all why I feel like a support group would be helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. We are also suffering from secondary infertility and I agree that it would be helpful to find groups who specialize in this.

We are a same sex couple who also struggled with primary infertility. Back then, I remember reading the book Inconceivable and feeling pretty pissed off as I did. I felt similarly to many of the PP's on this thread. I thought, how dare she feel like this when she already has one child.

Then, after our son was born, we paid $25,000 to do shared risk at shady grove. DW got pregnant on the first try - it was like a dream. We lost that baby at 17 weeks due to T21. Then we had several failed cycles. Then two more miscarriages this year.

I don't disagree that primary is brutal - it is. We lived it. But I also think what we have been through is its own hell. And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy. So many online groups we have been a part of have brought us the experience of watching people come and go with BFPs and successful pregnancies while we watch our son get older and while we mark the months and years thinking of how old our other children would have been. We bought a huge new house a few months ago right as DW got her most recent BFP - then had to move in right after her miscarriage with all of our sons old baby clothes and her maternity clothes staring us in the face - as if they were mocking us.

The point of this long response is to say I empathize - and you have every right to grieve the loss of what you wanted your family to be. We haven't given up - hopefully you won't either.

Wait, what? If a lesbian showed up at an infertility support group of any kind I would be perplexed. Of course you can't have an oops pregnancy. Science and all. Of course you have to pay to have a baby. It's not the same as having sex month after month expecting it to work and, nothing. You knew you would have to use ART and it's only a fairly recent thing that even the possibility of you having a child is real. Also, there are two sets of eggs and you choose the sperm and can switch donors if there is an issue.

"Wait, what" poster. I hope you realize how dumb you sound. Same sex couple here and have been battling infertility for the past three years. 3 natural IUIs, 4 medicated IUIs, 4 IVFs and now on 6th FET. Recurrent miscarriages and DOR at age 34. You sound so uneducated and closed minded. Get a grip and get over yourself. So just because I can't procreate with a man, my attempts at conceiving a child are somehow less than yours?

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, primary and secondary infertility are two very different things. Having gone through both I honestly cannot say which is worse. With secondary you need a different type of support though. It's different because you now have the sadness of your child not having a sibling and being around pregnant women all the time through mother's groups, etc. Women facing primary infertility cannot understand these things. I wish I knew you in person OP because I think I could help you having recently gone through this. Where are you located?

I have also gone through both but had a different experience. I literally could barely look at a pregnant person or little kids without being in tears when I was in the thick of primary infertility. I finally was successful with IVF and never went on birth control after my baby was born hoping I would get lucky and get pregnant naturally since i was unexplained. It took another 2 years and ended up doing IVF again and am now pregnant with my second. I was very sad struggling to get pregnant again the second time but it wasn't that gut wrenching, questioning god feeling that i had the first time aground. Can't even compare. I start crying just thinking about what it was like trying to get pregnant that first time.

^^so then you are nutty, because you are also on this board!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. We are also suffering from secondary infertility and I agree that it would be helpful to find groups who specialize in this.

We are a same sex couple who also struggled with primary infertility. Back then, I remember reading the book Inconceivable and feeling pretty pissed off as I did. I felt similarly to many of the PP's on this thread. I thought, how dare she feel like this when she already has one child.

Then, after our son was born, we paid $25,000 to do shared risk at shady grove. DW got pregnant on the first try - it was like a dream. We lost that baby at 17 weeks due to T21. Then we had several failed cycles. Then two more miscarriages this year.

I don't disagree that primary is brutal - it is. We lived it. But I also think what we have been through is its own hell. And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy. So many online groups we have been a part of have brought us the experience of watching people come and go with BFPs and successful pregnancies while we watch our son get older and while we mark the months and years thinking of how old our other children would have been. We bought a huge new house a few months ago right as DW got her most recent BFP - then had to move in right after her miscarriage with all of our sons old baby clothes and her maternity clothes staring us in the face - as if they were mocking us.

The point of this long response is to say I empathize - and you have every right to grieve the loss of what you wanted your family to be. We haven't given up - hopefully you won't either.

If you showed up at ANY support group saying "And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy" I hope they asked you nicely to leave.

We have never attended an in person support group other than for pregnancy loss. From the tone of some of these responses it makes me glad that we haven't. What I said about not trying at home is a fact. And you can't pretend it doesn't happen for some couples. Even on this forum, there are couples who need fertility intervention for child 1 then get pregnant with a second on their own.

I wouldn't wish the pain we have experienced on anyone, and I completely acknowledge that primary infertility is brutal and not anything like secondary. As I said, we also dealt with it for years in addition to the numerous obstacles lesbian couples face when using a fertility clinic. Things like paying close to $1000 to sit with a social worker who questioned every aspect of our choice (which, by the way, is standard at every clinic we have ever worked with).

Why would you zero in on that particular part of my post when I was merely trying to empathize with OP?

But it's really unkind to assume that other people don't also face extreme hardship getting pregnant. It's extraordinarily unsympathetic, and any time you get into the "my pain is worse than your pain" game in a support network, it is unhelpful to all involved. Being a same-sex couple isn't why people got irritated here. You shouldn't be at a support group if you can't empathize with others -- no matter why they're there. Especially if you think your suffering is morally superior to theirs.

NP here. I didn't get this at all from PP's post. Frankly, you're the one sounding unsympathetic in this exchange. PP and OP: I'm sorry for your struggles and losses.

Same. Seems the women on the infertility board are a little nutty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. We are also suffering from secondary infertility and I agree that it would be helpful to find groups who specialize in this.

We are a same sex couple who also struggled with primary infertility. Back then, I remember reading the book Inconceivable and feeling pretty pissed off as I did. I felt similarly to many of the PP's on this thread. I thought, how dare she feel like this when she already has one child.

Then, after our son was born, we paid $25,000 to do shared risk at shady grove. DW got pregnant on the first try - it was like a dream. We lost that baby at 17 weeks due to T21. Then we had several failed cycles. Then two more miscarriages this year.

I don't disagree that primary is brutal - it is. We lived it. But I also think what we have been through is its own hell. And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy. So many online groups we have been a part of have brought us the experience of watching people come and go with BFPs and successful pregnancies while we watch our son get older and while we mark the months and years thinking of how old our other children would have been. We bought a huge new house a few months ago right as DW got her most recent BFP - then had to move in right after her miscarriage with all of our sons old baby clothes and her maternity clothes staring us in the face - as if they were mocking us.

The point of this long response is to say I empathize - and you have every right to grieve the loss of what you wanted your family to be. We haven't given up - hopefully you won't either.

If you showed up at ANY support group saying "And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy" I hope they asked you nicely to leave.

We have never attended an in person support group other than for pregnancy loss. From the tone of some of these responses it makes me glad that we haven't. What I said about not trying at home is a fact. And you can't pretend it doesn't happen for some couples. Even on this forum, there are couples who need fertility intervention for child 1 then get pregnant with a second on their own.

I wouldn't wish the pain we have experienced on anyone, and I completely acknowledge that primary infertility is brutal and not anything like secondary. As I said, we also dealt with it for years in addition to the numerous obstacles lesbian couples face when using a fertility clinic. Things like paying close to $1000 to sit with a social worker who questioned every aspect of our choice (which, by the way, is standard at every clinic we have ever worked with).

Why would you zero in on that particular part of my post when I was merely trying to empathize with OP?

But it's really unkind to assume that other people don't also face extreme hardship getting pregnant. It's extraordinarily unsympathetic, and any time you get into the "my pain is worse than your pain" game in a support network, it is unhelpful to all involved. Being a same-sex couple isn't why people got irritated here. You shouldn't be at a support group if you can't empathize with others -- no matter why they're there. Especially if you think your suffering is morally superior to theirs.

NP here. I didn't get this at all from PP's post. Frankly, you're the one sounding unsympathetic in this exchange. PP and OP: I'm sorry for your struggles and losses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, OP. We are also suffering from secondary infertility and I agree that it would be helpful to find groups who specialize in this.

We are a same sex couple who also struggled with primary infertility. Back then, I remember reading the book Inconceivable and feeling pretty pissed off as I did. I felt similarly to many of the PP's on this thread. I thought, how dare she feel like this when she already has one child.

Then, after our son was born, we paid $25,000 to do shared risk at shady grove. DW got pregnant on the first try - it was like a dream. We lost that baby at 17 weeks due to T21. Then we had several failed cycles. Then two more miscarriages this year.

I don't disagree that primary is brutal - it is. We lived it. But I also think what we have been through is its own hell. And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy. So many online groups we have been a part of have brought us the experience of watching people come and go with BFPs and successful pregnancies while we watch our son get older and while we mark the months and years thinking of how old our other children would have been. We bought a huge new house a few months ago right as DW got her most recent BFP - then had to move in right after her miscarriage with all of our sons old baby clothes and her maternity clothes staring us in the face - as if they were mocking us.

The point of this long response is to say I empathize - and you have every right to grieve the loss of what you wanted your family to be. We haven't given up - hopefully you won't either.

If you showed up at ANY support group saying "And we can't just try at home and end up with an oops pregnancy" I hope they asked you nicely to leave.

We have never attended an in person support group other than for pregnancy loss. From the tone of some of these responses it makes me glad that we haven't. What I said about not trying at home is a fact. And you can't pretend it doesn't happen for some couples. Even on this forum, there are couples who need fertility intervention for child 1 then get pregnant with a second on their own.

I wouldn't wish the pain we have experienced on anyone, and I completely acknowledge that primary infertility is brutal and not anything like secondary. As I said, we also dealt with it for years in addition to the numerous obstacles lesbian couples face when using a fertility clinic. Things like paying close to $1000 to sit with a social worker who questioned every aspect of our choice (which, by the way, is standard at every clinic we have ever worked with).

Why would you zero in on that particular part of my post when I was merely trying to empathize with OP?

But it's really unkind to assume that other people don't also face extreme hardship getting pregnant. It's extraordinarily unsympathetic, and any time you get into the "my pain is worse than your pain" game in a support network, it is unhelpful to all involved. Being a same-sex couple isn't why people got irritated here. You shouldn't be at a support group if you can't empathize with others -- no matter why they're there. Especially if you think your suffering is morally superior to theirs.

1. We never attended a support group other than for pregnancy loss.

2. I never implied that our suffering is worse than that of others - this isn't the suffering olympics. In fact, I'm pretty sure I implied the opposite. Infertility is a bitch and I don't pretend to know each person's individual struggle - that would be ridiculously presumptuous. Nor do you know our struggle.


I'm sorry, OP, that this derailed your original post. Call me thin skinned, but I'm going to take DCUM hiatus. Good luck to all of you.

3.