Anonymous
06/24/2016 08:14
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
Trump's ignornance is astounding. From the NYT live feed on Brexit:
Unaware or unconcerned that Scots had voted overwhelmingly to stay in the bloc, Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, made little effort to contain his enthusiasm.
“I think it’s a great thing that happened,” he said as he disembarked from his helicopter, called “G-TRMP,” at the resort, Trump Turnberry, to cheers and applause from his local Turnberry staff members, all clad in red “Make Turnberry Great Again” hats.
...
“People are angry, all over the world people, they’re angry,” he said. “They’re angry over borders, they’re angry over people coming into the country and taking over, nobody even knows who they are. They’re angry about many, many things.”
Asked where the anger is, he said: “U.K. U.S. There’s plenty of other places. This will not be the last.”
http://www.nytimes.com/live/eu-referendum/trump-says-british-vote-is-a-great-thing/
Unaware or unconcerned that Scots had voted overwhelmingly to stay in the bloc, Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, made little effort to contain his enthusiasm.
“I think it’s a great thing that happened,” he said as he disembarked from his helicopter, called “G-TRMP,” at the resort, Trump Turnberry, to cheers and applause from his local Turnberry staff members, all clad in red “Make Turnberry Great Again” hats.
...
“People are angry, all over the world people, they’re angry,” he said. “They’re angry over borders, they’re angry over people coming into the country and taking over, nobody even knows who they are. They’re angry about many, many things.”
Asked where the anger is, he said: “U.K. U.S. There’s plenty of other places. This will not be the last.”
http://www.nytimes.com/live/eu-referendum/trump-says-british-vote-is-a-great-thing/
Anonymous
06/24/2016 08:09
Subject: Please explain pros of Brexit to me
The more incredible part is that Cameron recently extracted meaningful concessions from the EU. The leave measure passed AFTER the concessions were extracted, which suggests that without the concessions leave would have likely passed by an even greater margin.
Anonymous
06/24/2016 08:07
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
jsteele wrote:For the record, Trump was just asked if he thinks Boris Johnson should be the next prime minister and replied by asking "Who is Boris? I don't know him."
Wow. He is going to get wrecked in the debates with Hillary although people won't care because at least he just says what is in his head (little of which is correct).
jsteele
06/24/2016 08:03
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
For the record, Trump was just asked if he thinks Boris Johnson should be the next prime minister and replied by asking "Who is Boris? I don't know him."
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:59
Subject: Please explain pros of Brexit to me
Anonymous wrote:There's an interesting similarity between the Brexit referendum and our internal political . . . situation. The Brexit referendum is not binding - Cameron could still put it to Parliament for a vote, which might reject it. However, he didn't do that - he resigned (or will resign).
So - the voters made a decision that likely will have significant adverse consequences, and that is deeply unpopular with (most of) the establishment. That establishment has a way around the decision - a legal way, but one that would unquestionably be thwarting the will of the people. Rather than take that route, the establishment is acquiescing to the unpopular decision, despite that fact that they think it might have disastrous consequences to the country and the world.
Sound familiar?
No, it's not a perfect comparison, but the parallels with the Dump Trump movement are striking. The voters made a terrible decision (so the establishment thinks, anyway), without considering (or caring about) the consequences, and now there's a movement by the establishment to subvert that decision through legal (though morally questionable) means. Should they take that step? Opinions on that vary, of course, but does viewing it through this lens have any impact on what you decide?
it tells you the strength of the passions under the surface over an issue like immigration. I doubt the UK voters are against the free flow of goods to and from Europe. It was the free flow of people that bothered them.
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:53
Subject: Please explain pros of Brexit to me
There's an interesting similarity between the Brexit referendum and our internal political . . . situation. The Brexit referendum is not binding - Cameron could still put it to Parliament for a vote, which might reject it. However, he didn't do that - he resigned (or will resign).
So - the voters made a decision that likely will have significant adverse consequences, and that is deeply unpopular with (most of) the establishment. That establishment has a way around the decision - a legal way, but one that would unquestionably be thwarting the will of the people. Rather than take that route, the establishment is acquiescing to the unpopular decision, despite that fact that they think it might have disastrous consequences to the country and the world.
Sound familiar?
No, it's not a perfect comparison, but the parallels with the Dump Trump movement are striking. The voters made a terrible decision (so the establishment thinks, anyway), without considering (or caring about) the consequences, and now there's a movement by the establishment to subvert that decision through legal (though morally questionable) means. Should they take that step? Opinions on that vary, of course, but does viewing it through this lens have any impact on what you decide?
So - the voters made a decision that likely will have significant adverse consequences, and that is deeply unpopular with (most of) the establishment. That establishment has a way around the decision - a legal way, but one that would unquestionably be thwarting the will of the people. Rather than take that route, the establishment is acquiescing to the unpopular decision, despite that fact that they think it might have disastrous consequences to the country and the world.
Sound familiar?
No, it's not a perfect comparison, but the parallels with the Dump Trump movement are striking. The voters made a terrible decision (so the establishment thinks, anyway), without considering (or caring about) the consequences, and now there's a movement by the establishment to subvert that decision through legal (though morally questionable) means. Should they take that step? Opinions on that vary, of course, but does viewing it through this lens have any impact on what you decide?
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:52
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
If it passes, Obama will blame the weak economy on brexit, and Donald Trump win is a sure thing in November.
Why would Britain voting to leave the EU cause Americans to vote for Trump?
The anti-immigration side won. Fairly significantly in fact.
This is the side represented by Trump in America. Trump was also for Brexit.
Obama urged them to remain. Obama's side lost.
What this portends for the election in the U.S. is unclear - but I will say that right up to the day of the vote most peopl though "remain" was going to win.
Yes, BREXIT was all about Trump's side versus Obama's side. From a US perspective, Briton leaving the EU is bad for the US and global economies, so Obama, as the US president, rightly supported a remain vote. From a UK perspective, the people aren't concerned about protecting the US economy. They are concerned about handing over their sovereign rights to decision makers in Brussels, over whom they have no control. They are concerned about Brussels regulating their businesses and their immigration policy. They couldn't care less what Trump and Obama think.
Obama didn't "rightly" support Remain. It was an internal political matter and the only thing Obama should have said is something to the effect of "You are our greatest allies and we'll support you whatever you decide on this matter."
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:37
Subject: Please explain pros of Brexit to me
The only pro is we get laugh at the hypocrisy of an imperialist power that took over everything in sight and ran it with impunity, not caring what happened to the native populations. And now that it's the one being ruled, it high tails it out of there. Wah wah wah, bunch of whiny babies.
jsteele
06/24/2016 07:37
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
Adding more to my previous post, imagine you are a British widget manufacturer. Right now, your widget meet EU standards and can be sold in the UK and EU. Now, imagine 10 years down the road and widget regulations in Britain have diverged from those in the EU. Now, you either have to manufacture two standards of widgets or give up on one market. My guess is that in many cases the UK will just conform to the EU standard. If so, Brexit will mean an actual loss of sovereignty for the UK as the country will essentially be forced to adopt regulations developed by another entity.
jsteele
06/24/2016 07:30
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
Anonymous wrote:
Yes, BREXIT was all about Trump's side versus Obama's side. From a US perspective, Briton leaving the EU is bad for the US and global economies, so Obama, as the US president, rightly supported a remain vote. From a UK perspective, the people aren't concerned about protecting the US economy. They are concerned about handing over their sovereign rights to decision makers in Brussels, over whom they have no control. They are concerned about Brussels regulating their businesses and their immigration policy. They couldn't care less what Trump and Obama think.
I generally agree with you here, but aren't the Brexit supporters fooling themselves regarding the bolded? If British manufacturers want to export to Europe, they will still have to meet EU regulations. Now, they just won't have a say into what those regulations are. There could be an irony regarding immigration in that if the British economy suffers due to Brexit, Brits will have a more difficult time moving in search of better jobs.
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:29
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
The only two major politicians to support Brexit outside of the U.K. were Trump (once it was explained to him) and Putin. Putin's reasons were obvious - he wants to weaken the European Union.
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:26
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
If it passes, Obama will blame the weak economy on brexit, and Donald Trump win is a sure thing in November.
Why would Britain voting to leave the EU cause Americans to vote for Trump?
The anti-immigration side won. Fairly significantly in fact.
This is the side represented by Trump in America. Trump was also for Brexit.
Obama urged them to remain. Obama's side lost.
What this portends for the election in the U.S. is unclear - but I will say that right up to the day of the vote most peopl though "remain" was going to win.
Yes, BREXIT was all about Trump's side versus Obama's side. From a US perspective, Briton leaving the EU is bad for the US and global economies, so Obama, as the US president, rightly supported a remain vote. From a UK perspective, the people aren't concerned about protecting the US economy. They are concerned about handing over their sovereign rights to decision makers in Brussels, over whom they have no control. They are concerned about Brussels regulating their businesses and their immigration policy. They couldn't care less what Trump and Obama think.
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:22
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
If it passes, Obama will blame the weak economy on brexit, and Donald Trump win is a sure thing in November.
Why would Britain voting to leave the EU cause Americans to vote for Trump?
The anti-immigration side won. Fairly significantly in fact.
This is the side represented by Trump in America. Trump was also for Brexit.
Obama urged them to remain. Obama's side lost.
What this portends for the election in the U.S. is unclear - but I will say that right up to the day of the vote most peopl though "remain" was going to win.
A week ago, Trump didn't even know what Brexit was.
Yet he is pontificating live on TV, wall-to wall right now.
He seems to have bought off the media too.
Anonymous
06/24/2016 07:21
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
If it passes, Obama will blame the weak economy on brexit, and Donald Trump win is a sure thing in November.
Why would Britain voting to leave the EU cause Americans to vote for Trump?
The anti-immigration side won. Fairly significantly in fact.
This is the side represented by Trump in America. Trump was also for Brexit.
Obama urged them to remain. Obama's side lost.
What this portends for the election in the U.S. is unclear - but I will say that right up to the day of the vote most peopl though "remain" was going to win.
A week ago, Trump didn't even know what Brexit was.
true, but after it was explained to him then he was all for it.
Like I said, not clear whether this is going to be significant for the U.S. election.
jsteele
06/24/2016 07:13
Subject: Re:Please explain pros of Brexit to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
If it passes, Obama will blame the weak economy on brexit, and Donald Trump win is a sure thing in November.
Why would Britain voting to leave the EU cause Americans to vote for Trump?
The anti-immigration side won. Fairly significantly in fact.
This is the side represented by Trump in America. Trump was also for Brexit.
Obama urged them to remain. Obama's side lost.
What this portends for the election in the U.S. is unclear - but I will say that right up to the day of the vote most peopl though "remain" was going to win.
A week ago, Trump didn't even know what Brexit was.