Too much analyzing, too many words, too much digging. Was your 3 year old screaming her face off? If no, ignore the 8 year old for a minute while you clean the 3 year old's face, then sit down with both children and lay down the law -you do not throw things at each other, you use your words, you BOTH have to make an effort to get along. Kiss and make up. Done. Until the next time -which will be coming, as they're kids, and will be equally coming after this emotional torture OP put her son through.

Ok she threw a you first. So he is also feeling sibling rivalry. You did good. He sounds like a sweet deep thinker/feeler

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's pissed as hell that his little sister threw something at him, and he's expressing his anger, which seems to be huge. Have you taught him productive ways to handle/manage the anger? Or just expect him to sit there seething? The tears are the overwhelming emotions he cannot keep in. Help him learn to manage them in a good way.

What are your suggestions for how to help him learn to manage his emotions in a good way? I try to do this all the time, but as soon as I try to even go there, he completely shuts down. I can tell he's not even listening, let alone engaging. If anyone has concrete suggestions for how to do these things that I may not have thought of, I'm all ears.

To the extent it's relevant, he resists any suggestion in pretty much any context of how he might do something differently, from how to respond to a difficult situation with a friend to how to fit his shirts in his drawer more easily. Despite having a lot of natural athletic ability, he's falling behind his peers in every sport he tries because he refuses to be coached. No matter how positive and constructive, it seems like any hint that he might not do something perfectly causes him to shut down and dig in his heels.

PP here. Concrete suggestion - sit on the floor, don't make eye contact (that is intimidating) and ask him questions. Don't dictate, don't offer suggestions - be curious instead. "Why did you xyz? Did you feel abc when you did xyz?" Try to relate, like it's a friend who is reaching out for support. Address the discipline angle once the emotions decrease - it's a waste of time anyway to discipline in the heat of it.

Sounds like my kid, who is 7, except you sound like a much more patient parent than I am. I have no nerve endings left; he has rubbed them raw over the last half-decade. Have read all the books and done all the classes, and now we are going for our second neuropsych, doing OT, and family therapy. Basically spending all our money because we can't live like this anymore.

Op, your kid sounds a lot like mine, though mine is 5. We went through a family program for kids with Oppositional Defiance Disorder that helped a lot. We still have bad days but much fewer than we did before. It involves a lot of praise, avoiding power struggles at all costs, and a bunch of other stuff. We're also going to start OT for emotional regulation.

Its really hard and exhausting. I have two other kids that are nothing like this. And to the jackass who made the crap about the bad apple? Fuck you.

I'm sorry mama, that is so hard. My son is 11 and has ADHD and what you are describing sounds similar. He is on the Feingold diet which really helps but is not completely controlled with it. We are in the process of trying to figure out what to do next. It's really hard for a kid to stay away from all those foods. Doing the elimination diet helped us though to see that it was indeed ADHD that we were dealing with. Have you talked to your pediatrician? Hang in there, mama and I'm praying for you.

ADHD/anxiety is my guess. Makes them very difficult. Also agree re get a neuropsych. Its not you, but you might need to learn some new strategies. Call today.

OP, this might feel like too little too late, but have you ever tried a PEP class? If you've taken a class there, you can also sign up for an individualized consult where one of their experienced instructors talks about your issues and gives you some suggestions. That's an alternative to a medical evaluation, but they could also probably give you a sense of whether there is something going on that requires medical help. I agree that it sounds like you're a great mom and I know how hard these situations can be. Although I love some aspects of having older kids, it can be so challenging to set limits and respond to unacceptable behavior. Hang in there!

Anonymous wrote:The intensely not wanting to be corrected smacks of perfectionism based in anxiety. (Me as a kid!)

The anxiety could be a solo issue or based in struggles with untreated ADHD as other posters suggested. I would consult his teachers and also a child psychologist.

This sounds right to me. I could NOT take criticism as a kid (still not great at it) and way overreacted to any hint that I was ever in the wrong, even when I was. I had anxiety that turned into depression as a teen. Therapy helped, as did the realization that accepting criticism and learning from mistakes is a normal part of life.

The intensely not wanting to be corrected smacks of perfectionism based in anxiety. (Me as a kid!)

The anxiety could be a solo issue or based in struggles with untreated ADHD as other posters suggested. I would consult his teachers and also a child psychologist.

OP, I think you handled the situation very well. I, too, am reminded of my son with ADHD. FWIW, we don't use medication but have found therapy extremely helpful. My son is 11 and has, to a large extent, moved beyond this sort of thing. His impulse control is so much better, largely because he has learned to remove himself from situations early and generally not engage in the type of behavior that will often lead to trouble (like, say, wrestling). Meeting with a psychologist regularly was an enormous help and huge to support to us, as parents.

Anonymous wrote:Stop talking at him. Discipline, then drop it. Time out should be on stairs, not in his room.

NP here. I was thinking the same thing. Too much talking on your part. Tell him you are you are unhappy with his behavior and that you have let him behave in a way that's not ok for anyone and that you are starting a new policy. If he does something that's not ok you will immediately put him in "the corner". Going to the corner is a much more effective time out. Make him stand in the corner with his face to the wall until you tell him he's done. Don't talk to him or lecture him or try to figure out his feelings and why he did what he did. Just make sure he knows that when he engages in unacceptable behavior, and I am assuming you have already explained what is acceptable and what isn't, he will spend time staring at a wall. I don't understand time outs in a kids room. That is not punishment or discipline if you ask me.

I also think you need to discipline your three year old for throwing a toy at her brother and do it in a way that shows the 8 year old that you have his back, but also gentle enough that the 3 year learns that it can hurt when she throws toys and it makes her brother sad. You can figure out that one. But it will show your son that you are serious about her behavior as well. Just because she missed him this time doesn't mean she will always miss him and he probably is angry that she "gets away" with being bad and he doesn't.

Also agree about the hungry angry tired business. I guve my kids eggs or protein for breakfast every day. Really helps with their behavior. And I make sure they are well fed and well rested.

OP, you were pretty amazing in dealing with that issue, very level-headed, etc., BUT... I agree you talked him "through" this way too much. I empathize-- I am an overtalker too. He needs more input, and a more Socratic/collaborative method-- less of you directing him. Especially by age 8.

I also think he may have ADHD, etc., and therapy is almost always helpful. But I would HIGHLY recommend How to Talk (if you haven't read it):

http://amzn.to/1t8tNcz

You can try Ross Greene's The Explosive Child as a helpful book.

And Dan Shapiro has a helpful parenting course for parents of challenging kids.

Personally I had to realize that forcing my child to apologize was not helping while he was still upset. And I also had to be very equitable and clear about consequences.

You could also try posting in the special needs board with questions about managing emotional regulation.

I can see you are trying hard- good luck!

Stop talking at him. Discipline, then drop it. Time out should be on stairs, not in his room.