Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bullying can and does happen by kids with special needs.

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. The behavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.

The safety of all children is paramount. The rights of the victimizer do not trump the rights of the rest.

I'm wondering if you have a child with SN. There are many reasons why a child with SN would become aggressive and none of them have to do with a real or perceived power imbalance. Anxiety is one of the more common reasons. Not saying aggression is excused but we have no indication that it is bullying in this case.

I wonder how long until this kind of escuse of violent behavior ends up creating a Dylan Klebold type young man.

At some point, violence is just violence. Two adults to one six year old to prevent violent attacks (regular bruising?) on classmates is a little extreme for just a symptom of anxiety.

Seriously? We are talking about a 6 year old.

Everyone who became a violent teenager or adult was once a six year old.

If OPs post is accurate, and it takes two aides (not one) to somewhat control this child, and classmates are still regularly coming home with bruises from this child's violent outbursts, in spite of two adults dedicated to controlling him, then we are talking about a very dangerous and out of control young child. Imagine this child at 8, 10, 13...

Dismissing this behavior as "anxiety" is unfair and wrong, not just to the violent child and classmates/victims, but also to kids who have special needs and sometimes act out due to anxiety.

Assuming OP is being candid and honest, this boy needs to be moved into some other class environment. His "rights" should not trump every other child's basic right to be safe at school.

+1.

And I've seen that in my own school.

I understand why OP's comments are not popular in this corner of cyberspace, but that doesn't make them any less valid.

There is someone on this board who is making all kinds of horrible assumptions about the case being discussed and the child in question. I suspect it is not a person with a SN child.

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to help a child when the parent is in denial.
The child may only be 6, but at our private, two different boys have inflicted harm on classmates.
My son, in second grade, came home with bruises several times from one boy. I was told, when I asked, that the boy was 'in therapy, the parents are working with us on this' ...
But no one works with the parents whose children are hurt by such kids. At our tony little private, no one even called me about the two separate incidents--I had to ask.
There's really No Simple Solution. But I do feel that a violent kid with a history of hurting classmates should, at the least, be suspended for a time until he gets himself together.
Regardless of being 'only 6' ...

We are at a small private school as well and have had to deal with this as well. In one class the SN child inflicted physical harm on a daily basis. After he left red marks around two different girls necks from trying to strangle them the other parents revolted and the child was removed from the school. The principal then went on to admit another SN child that has extreme violent outbursts and throws desk when angry. The other kids in the class are in fear and are simply told to pray for him. The situation is not good for any of the students, including the SN child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm sorry some parents are jumping on you, OP.

As a mother of two children, one of them with special needs, who were both assaulted by another child whose needs were not adequately met, it can be such an immensely frustrating experience to protect one's kids at school!

I would continue to fill out those bullying forms and request face-to-face meetings with the principal to document, document, document. Encourage other parents to do the same, because the school needs proof to make a special placement happen. Special placements can and do happen! It IS possible for the school to put pressure on the child's parents to admit the child to a different program within the public school system. But they have to pushed by other parents, because otherwise they're not going to do all that paperwork and organize all the necessary evaluations and schedule all those meetings, because they're already super busy. That's how public school works! Squeaky wheel...

In our case, too, I am acquainted with the mother, who is totally ineffectual with her son - he walks all over her and she demonstrates very poor parenting. It's not her fault she has a child with severe behavioral issues! But it is her fault when her son punches and kicks other children right in front of her and she does nothing. Or when she gives him an iPad and he immediately drops it and scratches the screen and she freaks out and makes him freak out. Well, duh. Everybody except her would have predicted that outcome. Etc...

Sorry, no amount of organizing by other parents is going to get a child placed in a more restrictive setting out of general ed - especially if there is no other diagnosis - without a whole lot of procedure and other interventions. Especially if the child's parents do not agree.

PP you responded to. I've been in MCPS long enough to know that it happens, and as I said, it takes WORK. Parents don't know that they can contribute to this process, so I am letting OP know what she has to do.

Shame on OP and shame on you. It is not your part to "contribute to this process" by pushing a "movement" (as OP called it) to get this child moved based on gossip. There is a reason the law exists and it's to make sure the people involved in making this decision have access to information about the child's background, medical history, having talked first hand to all the teachers and other relevant information. You have a right to talk to the school about your child and you have the right to complain about this other child but it is ethically questionable to say the least to try to influence a decision that may change the course of a child's future without having any of the facts.

The bolded is exactly what I suggested to OP: but there are ways to do this efficiently.
In MCPS there is a form you fill out for bullying that is more difficult to ignore than emailing the teacher, for example. Every complaint has to be in writing but requesting a meeting with the principal and staying on point and polite, yet persistent, is the most efficient method to stay on the radar.
OP can ask politely what other parents think about the situation, and can share what she has done (ie, the above) - which will mean the other parents will be encouraged to do the same.
NOTHING in this violates any code of ethics. Nothing about this is shameful. It is you who have reading comprehension issues and have stupidly decided that it is somehow unfair. What is unfair is dealing with the situation ineffectively, because the aggressive child will not receive any help and will continue to suffer, and the other children who need protection will continue to suffer as well.
Once again, I have been there, done that with my own children. I work in a school setting, and I see how the school tries to deal with aggressive children. There are ways for the school to accumulate enough proof to help a child, and parents can help.
No one is being disrespectful towards any child in this situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suspending a child with special needs at this age is considered to be an ignorant move and flies in the face of IDEA. The Department of Ed strongly frowns on this measure as do most states and education experts because of all the research that shows it does not help and can make things worse. I would be suspect of anyone that would consider doing this.

I have seen Fcps do this when the parents don't want to agree to a more restrictive placement or the parents and school agree that the current placement isn't working but disagree on where the child should go next. They can suspend a child with an IEP for 10 days total before having to justify it. Then they can have the child sit in a room all day for "in school" suspension. It has nothing to do with changing the child's behavior-it is to fuck with the parents until they agree with what the school wants to do. An ugly situation for everyone.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/starexponent/news/virginia-has-a-school-suspension-crisis-report-says/article_45713ee8-1e17-11e6-ab32-5b9f83d1cd13.html

http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/05/fewer-students-expelled-fairfax-county-ends-zero-tolerance-policy/

Anonymous wrote:Suspending a child with special needs at this age is considered to be an ignorant move and flies in the face of IDEA. The Department of Ed strongly frowns on this measure as do most states and education experts because of all the research that shows it does not help and can make things worse. I would be suspect of anyone that would consider doing this.

I have seen Fcps do this when the parents don't want to agree to a more restrictive placement or the parents and school agree that the current placement isn't working but disagree on where the child should go next. They can suspend a child with an IEP for 10 days total before having to justify it. Then they can have the child sit in a room all day for "in school" suspension. It has nothing to do with changing the child's behavior-it is to fuck with the parents until they agree with what the school wants to do. An ugly situation for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:21:34, you're off base. If the parents refuse an evaluation, the child doesn;t have to be treated as if he has a suspected disability. And if what OP says is accurate, the mother is refusing interventions.

No, OP says the mother now thinks he has anxiety. Plus there is a lot schools can and should do that does not require a full on IEP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm sorry some parents are jumping on you, OP.

As a mother of two children, one of them with special needs, who were both assaulted by another child whose needs were not adequately met, it can be such an immensely frustrating experience to protect one's kids at school!

I would continue to fill out those bullying forms and request face-to-face meetings with the principal to document, document, document. Encourage other parents to do the same, because the school needs proof to make a special placement happen. Special placements can and do happen! It IS possible for the school to put pressure on the child's parents to admit the child to a different program within the public school system. But they have to pushed by other parents, because otherwise they're not going to do all that paperwork and organize all the necessary evaluations and schedule all those meetings, because they're already super busy. That's how public school works! Squeaky wheel...

In our case, too, I am acquainted with the mother, who is totally ineffectual with her son - he walks all over her and she demonstrates very poor parenting. It's not her fault she has a child with severe behavioral issues! But it is her fault when her son punches and kicks other children right in front of her and she does nothing. Or when she gives him an iPad and he immediately drops it and scratches the screen and she freaks out and makes him freak out. Well, duh. Everybody except her would have predicted that outcome. Etc...

Sorry, no amount of organizing by other parents is going to get a child placed in a more restrictive setting out of general ed - especially if there is no other diagnosis - without a whole lot of procedure and other interventions. Especially if the child's parents do not agree.

PP you responded to. I've been in MCPS long enough to know that it happens, and as I said, it takes WORK. Parents don't know that they can contribute to this process, so I am letting OP know what she has to do.

So what, you are going to stand outside this child's IEP meetings with pitchforks or something??

21:34, you're off base. If the parents refuse an evaluation, the child doesn;t have to be treated as if he has a suspected disability. And if what OP says is accurate, the mother is refusing interventions.

OP, anxiety can be a very serious and debilitating condition. It sounds like you're familiar with children who internalize it but there are plenty who externalize. These passages from PP's link above provide a good explanation of what this family
may be dealing with.

"Anxiety manifests in a surprising variety of ways in part because it is based on a physiological response to a threat in the environment, a response that maximizes the body’s ability to either face danger or escape danger. So while some children exhibit anxiety by shrinking from situations or objects that trigger fears, some react with overwhelming need to break out of an uncomfortable situation. That behavior, which can be unmanageable, is often misread as anger or opposition."

"A 10-year-old boy named James has an outburst in school. Upset by something a classmate says to him, he pushes the other boy, and a shoving-match ensues. When the teacher steps in to break it up, James goes ballistic, throwing papers and books around the classroom and bolting out of the room and down the hall. He is finally contained in the vice principal’s office, where staff members try to calm him down. Instead, he kicks the vice principal in a frenzied effort to escape. The staff calls 911, and James ends up in the Emergency Room.

To the uninitiated, James looks like a boy with serious anger issues. It’s not the first time he’s flown out of control. The school insists that his parents pick him up and take him home for lunch every day because he’s been banned from the cafeteria.

But what’s really going on? “It turns out, after an evaluation, that he is off the charts for social anxiety,” reports Dr. Jerry Bubrick, director of the Anxiety & Mood Disorders Center at the Child Mind Institute. “He can’t tolerate any—even constructive—criticism. He just will shut down altogether. James is terrified of being embarrassed, so when a boy says something that makes him uncomfortable, he has no skills to deal with it, and he freaks out. Flight or fight.”

The teacher from the first page summed up quite nicely what OP should do. It doesn't matter what, if any, diagnosis the child has, all OP and others can do is talk about the issue as it regards their own child. Document, document, document - but it has to be about your own child or it will be dismissed as gossip.

-Parents should communicate their concerns to the school. Sometimes in my career I have really advocated for a child to get a one-on-one aid and the school was sluggish to move until parents made enough noise. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be sometimes.

-Communicate your concerns about your child's safety to the teacher and principal. Ask them for specific information about how your child is being kept safe. They can't talk to you about discipline of the other child, but they should be able to articulate a plan for keeping your child safe. This can push the school to address safety concerns.

It may likely be anxiety, which has symptoms that are often mis-diagnosed
http://childmind.org/article/how-anxiety-leads-to-disruptive-behavior/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bullying can and does happen by kids with special needs.

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. The behavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.

The safety of all children is paramount. The rights of the victimizer do not trump the rights of the rest.

I'm wondering if you have a child with SN. There are many reasons why a child with SN would become aggressive and none of them have to do with a real or perceived power imbalance. Anxiety is one of the more common reasons. Not saying aggression is excused but we have no indication that it is bullying in this case.

I wonder how long until this kind of escuse of violent behavior ends up creating a Dylan Klebold type young man.

At some point, violence is just violence. Two adults to one six year old to prevent violent attacks (regular bruising?) on classmates is a little extreme for just a symptom of anxiety.

Seriously? We are talking about a 6 year old.

Everyone who became a violent teenager or adult was once a six year old.

If OPs post is accurate, and it takes two aides (not one) to somewhat control this child, and classmates are still regularly coming home with bruises from this child's violent outbursts, in spite of two adults dedicated to controlling him, then we are talking about a very dangerous and out of control young child. Imagine this child at 8, 10, 13...

Dismissing this behavior as "anxiety" is unfair and wrong, not just to the violent child and classmates/victims, but also to kids who have special needs and sometimes act out due to anxiety.

Assuming OP is being candid and honest, this boy needs to be moved into some other class environment. His "rights" should not trump every other child's basic right to be safe at school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm sorry some parents are jumping on you, OP.

As a mother of two children, one of them with special needs, who were both assaulted by another child whose needs were not adequately met, it can be such an immensely frustrating experience to protect one's kids at school!

I would continue to fill out those bullying forms and request face-to-face meetings with the principal to document, document, document. Encourage other parents to do the same, because the school needs proof to make a special placement happen. Special placements can and do happen! It IS possible for the school to put pressure on the child's parents to admit the child to a different program within the public school system. But they have to pushed by other parents, because otherwise they're not going to do all that paperwork and organize all the necessary evaluations and schedule all those meetings, because they're already super busy. That's how public school works! Squeaky wheel...

In our case, too, I am acquainted with the mother, who is totally ineffectual with her son - he walks all over her and she demonstrates very poor parenting. It's not her fault she has a child with severe behavioral issues! But it is her fault when her son punches and kicks other children right in front of her and she does nothing. Or when she gives him an iPad and he immediately drops it and scratches the screen and she freaks out and makes him freak out. Well, duh. Everybody except her would have predicted that outcome. Etc...

Sorry, no amount of organizing by other parents is going to get a child placed in a more restrictive setting out of general ed - especially if there is no other diagnosis - without a whole lot of procedure and other interventions. Especially if the child's parents do not agree.

PP you responded to. I've been in MCPS long enough to know that it happens, and as I said, it takes WORK. Parents don't know that they can contribute to this process, so I am letting OP know what she has to do.

Shame on OP and shame on you. It is not your part to "contribute to this process" by pushing a "movement" (as OP called it) to get this child moved based on gossip. There is a reason the law exists and it's to make sure the people involved in making this decision have access to information about the child's background, medical history, having talked first hand to all the teachers and other relevant information. You have a right to talk to the school about your child and you have the right to complain about this other child but it is ethically questionable to say the least to try to influence a decision that may change the course of a child's future without having any of the facts.

Suspending a child with special needs at this age is considered to be an ignorant move and flies in the face of IDEA. The Department of Ed strongly frowns on this measure as do most states and education experts because of all the research that shows it does not help and can make things worse. I would be suspect of anyone that would consider doing this.