Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your family needs to recognize your SIL has a mental illness. Infertility may have been the trigger but it is not the cause. The cause, actually, doesn't matter because you need to deal with the symptoms of her illness just as you would if she were a substance abuser. You need to start with establishing boundaries. Abusive, disrespectful behavior is not to be tolerated. If her behavior makes interacting with her unpleasant/intolerable/unpredictable, don't interact with her. You can greet her at events, be civil/polite but don't engage. Don't invite her to events at your house. You can't do anything about her behavior but you have a lot of control over your own. You may not like your choices but you do have many. Disengaging is probably one of the most effective and useful. HTH.

This. Grief is ugly and tough to watch. When someone is suffering, he or she is expected to crawl under a rock and die off quietly, because it is unacceptable to inconvenience the more fortunate in any way. It is sad, but it's true.

OP, may you never be in your SIL's shoes. Meaning never have a crisis that will have your family turn away and forget about you, because you are nothing but a nuisance to them.

I might agree is this was a year or two but this has been 15 years. That is too much. SIL is fixated on her infertility. It is the fixation that is a problem and is causing a problem for others.
SIL is not just allowing her grief to ruin her life but to dictate the actions of others in her life. She thinks everyone owes her endless sympathy and money. If she and her DH spend all their money on fertility treatments and expect OP and her DH to bail them out of financial messes it is absolutely an issue of concern.

SIL is mourning the loss of a child she never had. I am sure it is horrible but she has taken it too far for too long.
I have a friend who is mourning the loss of a child who was born and lived for 18 years. She never makes others feel uncomfortable. She asks about other peoples kids. She doesn't make people feel guilty about having kids or talking about their kids. She is a strong woman who 2 years later must still be processing unimaginable grief but she still makes an effort to be social and have fun when she can. Being miserable doesn't help deal with grief.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your family needs to recognize your SIL has a mental illness. Infertility may have been the trigger but it is not the cause. The cause, actually, doesn't matter because you need to deal with the symptoms of her illness just as you would if she were a substance abuser. You need to start with establishing boundaries. Abusive, disrespectful behavior is not to be tolerated. If her behavior makes interacting with her unpleasant/intolerable/unpredictable, don't interact with her. You can greet her at events, be civil/polite but don't engage. Don't invite her to events at your house. You can't do anything about her behavior but you have a lot of control over your own. You may not like your choices but you do have many. Disengaging is probably one of the most effective and useful. HTH.

This. Grief is ugly and tough to watch. When someone is suffering, he or she is expected to crawl under a rock and die off quietly, because it is unacceptable to inconvenience the more fortunate in any way. It is sad, but it's true.

OP, may you never be in your SIL's shoes. Meaning never have a crisis that will have your family turn away and forget about you, because you are nothing but a nuisance to them.

That's such bullshit. When people are greiving they're often met with compassion, but when they continually lash out and try to cause everyone else to be in pain for 15 years instead of learning to cope with their circumstances, it's too much. She's becoming toxic by actively ruining what should be happy occasions, going out of her way to hurt other people out of jealousy, and it sounds like she's okay with financially ruining herself, her DH, MIL, and FIL, and expecting everyone in the family to help fund more fertility treatments. No one is abandoning her. She's alienating and pushing people away.

Why is this bullshit, if this is exactly what many PPs advise? Like it or hate it, his is what people do. Unhappy people are unhappy, and yes, it interferes with happy people's family dynamics. If you are more comfortable with saying "she is alienating people," so be it. It doesn't change anything. Sad people are an inconvenience to happy people. Why is it so hard for you to admit this? The algorythm is as follows:

Something bad happens to you, you withdraw, so that others go on with their lives without you. (Frankly, I think it is best for all involved.)
Something bad happens to a friend or relative, you cut the ties. (Again, in most cases best for all involved.)

I wouldn't judge OP, if she wanted to remove this nuisance from her life. I would probably do the same thing. Do we really need to window-dress this? You certainly can, but why?

I take issue with the notion that cutting sad people out of your life is normal or standard. You're calling her sad when she's actually mean, abusive and toxic. You're phrasing it as though people are abandoning her and I don't see it that way.

She needs help, but it sounds like she'd refuse help anyway.

I guess you're right, that in the end they do need to disengage, so stepping back is stepping back. But it's not like OP cut her off immediately because something unfortunate happened to SIL. She's upset with SIL because of SIL's actions. She put in 15 years before getting to this point.

It is semantics. Read the message right above yours. "She should stay home," "I wouldn't attend the upcoming event"--it's not bullshit, I assure you. If this happened right away, everybody would be spared 15 years of upsetting drama. So why not stop pretending like we care? Our lives are about our "experiences," right? Why put a damper on them until we absolutely have to? This reminds me of the thread by a DW whose husband is dying of cancer. Talk about inconveniece... Unfortunately, most people get to experience similar pain sooner or later. So my advice to you: Learn to withdraw early. When the shit hits the fan, just go away and spare the rest of the world your petty drama.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your family needs to recognize your SIL has a mental illness. Infertility may have been the trigger but it is not the cause. The cause, actually, doesn't matter because you need to deal with the symptoms of her illness just as you would if she were a substance abuser. You need to start with establishing boundaries. Abusive, disrespectful behavior is not to be tolerated. If her behavior makes interacting with her unpleasant/intolerable/unpredictable, don't interact with her. You can greet her at events, be civil/polite but don't engage. Don't invite her to events at your house. You can't do anything about her behavior but you have a lot of control over your own. You may not like your choices but you do have many. Disengaging is probably one of the most effective and useful. HTH.

This. Grief is ugly and tough to watch. When someone is suffering, he or she is expected to crawl under a rock and die off quietly, because it is unacceptable to inconvenience the more fortunate in any way. It is sad, but it's true.

OP, may you never be in your SIL's shoes. Meaning never have a crisis that will have your family turn away and forget about you, because you are nothing but a nuisance to them.

That's such bullshit. When people are greiving they're often met with compassion, but when they continually lash out and try to cause everyone else to be in pain for 15 years instead of learning to cope with their circumstances, it's too much. She's becoming toxic by actively ruining what should be happy occasions, going out of her way to hurt other people out of jealousy, and it sounds like she's okay with financially ruining herself, her DH, MIL, and FIL, and expecting everyone in the family to help fund more fertility treatments. No one is abandoning her. She's alienating and pushing people away.

Why is this bullshit, if this is exactly what many PPs advise? Like it or hate it, his is what people do. Unhappy people are unhappy, and yes, it interferes with happy people's family dynamics. If you are more comfortable with saying "she is alienating people," so be it. It doesn't change anything. Sad people are an inconvenience to happy people. Why is it so hard for you to admit this? The algorythm is as follows:

Something bad happens to you, you withdraw, so that others go on with their lives without you. (Frankly, I think it is best for all involved.)
Something bad happens to a friend or relative, you cut the ties. (Again, in most cases best for all involved.)

I wouldn't judge OP, if she wanted to remove this nuisance from her life. I would probably do the same thing. Do we really need to window-dress this? You certainly can, but why?

I take issue with the notion that cutting sad people out of your life is normal or standard. You're calling her sad when she's actually mean, abusive and toxic. You're phrasing it as though people are abandoning her and I don't see it that way.

She needs help, but it sounds like she'd refuse help anyway.

I guess you're right, that in the end they do need to disengage, so stepping back is stepping back. But it's not like OP cut her off immediately because something unfortunate happened to SIL. She's upset with SIL because of SIL's actions. She put in 15 years before getting to this point.

Anonymous wrote:

That's such bullshit. When people are greiving they're often met with compassion, but when they continually lash out and try to cause everyone else to be in pain for 15 years instead of learning to cope with their circumstances, it's too much. She's becoming toxic by actively ruining what should be happy occasions, going out of her way to hurt other people out of jealousy, and it sounds like she's okay with financially ruining herself, her DH, MIL, and FIL, and expecting everyone in the family to help fund more fertility treatments. No one is abandoning her. She's alienating and pushing people away.

Exactly - people don't get to abuse others repeatedly because they are hurt. What SIL is going through sucks, but that doesn't give her permission to bring a rain cloud with her to family events and otherwise happy occasions. If she can't go and fake it, she should just stay home. I say this as a woman who sobbed after getting off the phone with my SIL when she quickly got pregnant and it hadn't happened for me after trying for 5 years. I would have NEVER betrayed those feelings to her or my BIL - they have a right to happiness and to enjoy the experience.

OP - after 15 years of this, I don't know that I'd have the grace to not call her out. Especially after what she said after your son's accident. I probably wouldn't even attend the upcoming event.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your family needs to recognize your SIL has a mental illness. Infertility may have been the trigger but it is not the cause. The cause, actually, doesn't matter because you need to deal with the symptoms of her illness just as you would if she were a substance abuser. You need to start with establishing boundaries. Abusive, disrespectful behavior is not to be tolerated. If her behavior makes interacting with her unpleasant/intolerable/unpredictable, don't interact with her. You can greet her at events, be civil/polite but don't engage. Don't invite her to events at your house. You can't do anything about her behavior but you have a lot of control over your own. You may not like your choices but you do have many. Disengaging is probably one of the most effective and useful. HTH.

This. Grief is ugly and tough to watch. When someone is suffering, he or she is expected to crawl under a rock and die off quietly, because it is unacceptable to inconvenience the more fortunate in any way. It is sad, but it's true.

OP, may you never be in your SIL's shoes. Meaning never have a crisis that will have your family turn away and forget about you, because you are nothing but a nuisance to them.

That's such bullshit. When people are greiving they're often met with compassion, but when they continually lash out and try to cause everyone else to be in pain for 15 years instead of learning to cope with their circumstances, it's too much. She's becoming toxic by actively ruining what should be happy occasions, going out of her way to hurt other people out of jealousy, and it sounds like she's okay with financially ruining herself, her DH, MIL, and FIL, and expecting everyone in the family to help fund more fertility treatments. No one is abandoning her. She's alienating and pushing people away.

Why is this bullshit, if this is exactly what many PPs advise? Like it or hate it, his is what people do. Unhappy people are unhappy, and yes, it interferes with happy people's family dynamics. If you are more comfortable with saying "she is alienating people," so be it. It doesn't change anything. Sad people are an inconvenience to happy people. Why is it so hard for you to admit this? The algorythm is as follows:

Something bad happens to you, you withdraw, so that others go on with their lives without you. (Frankly, I think it is best for all involved.)
Something bad happens to a friend or relative, you cut the ties. (Again, in most cases best for all involved.)

I wouldn't judge OP, if she wanted to remove this nuisance from her life. I would probably do the same thing. Do we really need to window-dress this? You certainly can, but why?

calling your SIL emotionally and physically abusive seems over the top. The comment she made while your son was hospitalized was insensitive and self centered, but not 'emotionally abusive.' I agree with the pp's that your in-laws decisions about how much money to give which children and why aren't your concern. If she were going through a bankruptcy, custody battle, or cancer would you really be criticizing the $$ or time spent by other people? I'm not sure why you feel this affects you so much, that you need to 'intervene'. If my in laws were planning a meeting like you describe, I wouldn't go near it-it's between them. I get that its annoying to be around her, I think it is true for many of us and our in laws. But you are not required to be her best friend, and you, your husband and kids aren't much affected now that you don't give them money. You seem to want to play the white knight and protect your in laws from her, but have any of them asked for your protection? Seems like mostly you just want to brag about how crazy she is and how sane you are, but that only makes you look kind of petty, given her misfortune. We all get she's not handling it well, but I don't understand why you need to worry about that so much. Ironically, you complain of her overplaying the victim, but you go to great lengths to prove you are being victimized by her, and, frankly it's not convincing. You should give yourself the advice you wish you could give her: Get a life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your family needs to recognize your SIL has a mental illness. Infertility may have been the trigger but it is not the cause. The cause, actually, doesn't matter because you need to deal with the symptoms of her illness just as you would if she were a substance abuser. You need to start with establishing boundaries. Abusive, disrespectful behavior is not to be tolerated. If her behavior makes interacting with her unpleasant/intolerable/unpredictable, don't interact with her. You can greet her at events, be civil/polite but don't engage. Don't invite her to events at your house. You can't do anything about her behavior but you have a lot of control over your own. You may not like your choices but you do have many. Disengaging is probably one of the most effective and useful. HTH.

This. Grief is ugly and tough to watch. When someone is suffering, he or she is expected to crawl under a rock and die off quietly, because it is unacceptable to inconvenience the more fortunate in any way. It is sad, but it's true.

OP, may you never be in your SIL's shoes. Meaning never have a crisis that will have your family turn away and forget about you, because you are nothing but a nuisance to them.

That's such bullshit. When people are greiving they're often met with compassion, but when they continually lash out and try to cause everyone else to be in pain for 15 years instead of learning to cope with their circumstances, it's too much. She's becoming toxic by actively ruining what should be happy occasions, going out of her way to hurt other people out of jealousy, and it sounds like she's okay with financially ruining herself, her DH, MIL, and FIL, and expecting everyone in the family to help fund more fertility treatments. No one is abandoning her. She's alienating and pushing people away.

I would make it a point to be around her less/avoid her if possible. Be polite, but that is it. What she said about you when your child was sick is not acceptable and I wouldn't willingly subject myself to her craziness again.

When your SIL essentially lamented that your son was going to be OK after his accident that would have been the moment that I would have severed my relationship with her. Forever. I don't care how hurting she is from her struggles with infertility. That sort of behavior is unforgivable and using her infertility as perpetual justification for every unkind thing she says and does is an affront to the millions of women who deal with infertility with some level of humility and grace.

Anonymous wrote:Your family needs to recognize your SIL has a mental illness. Infertility may have been the trigger but it is not the cause. The cause, actually, doesn't matter because you need to deal with the symptoms of her illness just as you would if she were a substance abuser. You need to start with establishing boundaries. Abusive, disrespectful behavior is not to be tolerated. If her behavior makes interacting with her unpleasant/intolerable/unpredictable, don't interact with her. You can greet her at events, be civil/polite but don't engage. Don't invite her to events at your house. You can't do anything about her behavior but you have a lot of control over your own. You may not like your choices but you do have many. Disengaging is probably one of the most effective and useful. HTH.

This. Grief is ugly and tough to watch. When someone is suffering, he or she is expected to crawl under a rock and die off quietly, because it is unacceptable to inconvenience the more fortunate in any way. It is sad, but it's true.

OP, may you never be in your SIL's shoes. Meaning never have a crisis that will have your family turn away and forget about you, because you are nothing but a nuisance to them.

Your family needs to recognize your SIL has a mental illness. Infertility may have been the trigger but it is not the cause. The cause, actually, doesn't matter because you need to deal with the symptoms of her illness just as you would if she were a substance abuser. You need to start with establishing boundaries. Abusive, disrespectful behavior is not to be tolerated. If her behavior makes interacting with her unpleasant/intolerable/unpredictable, don't interact with her. You can greet her at events, be civil/polite but don't engage. Don't invite her to events at your house. You can't do anything about her behavior but you have a lot of control over your own. You may not like your choices but you do have many. Disengaging is probably one of the most effective and useful. HTH.

hey OP, I just posted/updated my SIL drama which touches on infertility , so I am guessing people think we are the same person. I'm sure Jeff can confirm we are different posters. fwiw, I have an extremely close friend who has gone through pretty tough times with infertility, although is now pregnant, joyfully. it is not easy and I have great compassion for those who have struggled with it and can understand how it can make someone bitter or do crazy things (I'm witnessing in our family). but your SIL's behavior is too much.

That sounds miserable for everyone.
What does her DH think/say of her behavior?
What does your other SIL hope to accompolish during the family talk sans SIL? Would the DH be in on the talk?

Such a tough situation. Does she have any infertility support groups? If you don't feel comfortable suggesting it to her directly what about her DH?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

On the slim chance this is actually real ( I have a strong feeling you are the author of my SIL is mean to my baby)

You don't get to determine this. You don't get to even wonder about it.

You don't get to decide what other family members do with their money or their relationship with them.

You can choose how much time you spend with her and her BIL. You can choose how much money you are willing to help them with.

Your SIL is hurting. Hurting people react in a variety of ways. Some become reclusive, some become bitter an nasty, and some reach out to others. You really don't have to understand it. You just need to choose how you will react to it.

I don't have a baby, this is real, and I have not posted about my SIL before.

I get the advice you are giving but I do get to feel exhausted from years of this type of abuse. She has physically attacked me. She has emotionally abused my other SIL.

I don't think I said anywhere in my post that I get to decide what other family members do with their money. I can worry that my aging ILs are being bullied into emptying their retirement.

As I said in my OP I get that she is hurting. But she is hurting our entire family and I think we all deserve a bit of consideration too.

You asked " when is enough enough? implying you get to decide things. You don't.

Outside of what you,your DH and your kids do you don't get to decide. Your in-laws are adults they can determine what relationship and the boundaries they want to have with her SIL. You can determine your own boundaries.

" I'll never understand why..."
If you see that she's hurting it really shouldn't be baffling to you why she acts the way she does. As an adult I'm sure you're capable of understanding that hurting people behave in all manner of ways.

Since you feel abused and scarred by her behavior, instead of worrying about your SIL seeking therapy, maybe you should go to therapy yourself.

Oh please. My miseries dont give me the right to beat my SIL, extort money, and verbally abuse her. Theres no excuse for that behavior. Nope, next. . .(not OP)

Buy not but the book lol