Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:31
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will fly her out to stay with me for a while to calm down.
She is really upset about the "face doesn't fit" comment because she suffers from severe acne (just started Accutane recently), and is very self-conscious about it. She seems to think that they fired her literally because of her face. She once overheard the two women who were unkind to her talking about her skin, and now she's convinced that she was fired because she is "too ugly" and "no one wants to look at a face like mine." It is probably good that I am in a different country because I would like to go find her supervisor and slap him. The poor kid. I wish they had just told her a reason, or at least not said anything about a "face" at all.
I find that comment to be deeply, deeply disturbing and potentially discriminatory. Consult an employment lawyer. Not sure what the effect of whatever it is that she signed would be, though. Lawyer up.
As a PP noted above (with multiple links), that phrase means that "not a good personality fit," and has nothing to do with acne Don't fuel the fire here. Her niece got laid off because she wasn't a good personality fit. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. She needs to focus on moving forward and finding something better, not obsess over it.
Who says? The comment could mean she wasn't pretty enough. The comment in and off itself is unclear and could mean any number of things.
Incorrect. Please click on PP's links or just google it yourself. It's a common phrase used by Brits/Australians/probably other commonwealth nations. It means that the person is not a good personality fit.
Did this happen in England/Australia or another Commonwealth nation or in America?
Right, so this guy just happened to use a phrase that in many parts of the world means "not a good personality fit" to fire someone who didn't get along with her colleagues, but what he meant was he was firing her because he didn't like her face.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:27
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
It can't hurt to consult a lawyer. My best friend was laid off after 20 years with her company. No notice, just called in one day and let go, along with several other people. She was asked to sign an agreement right then and there, but she asked for a day to have her attorney review it. She was not a naive 24 year old, so she knew better than to sign any document like that without having an employment lawyer take a look at it.
She found a lawyer that morning, faxed the document to her and had suggestions for negotiated changes by that afternoon.
I mention this because it can't hurt to have a lawyer take a look at the document she signed. And the "the face doesn't fit" comment could possibly be interpreted as discriminatory, especially if your cousin is a minority. Run it past a lawyer.
I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in tricky employment situations (once my employer tried to fire me because I was pregnant, no kidding!), and legal advice was invaluable in helping me keep my job.
Regarding her acne, there are dietary means and other drugs than Accutane to treat acne. There's a dermatologist in Boston who is a licensed nutritionist who treats acne with diet, and some medicines. Here's her info: http://www.integrativedermatology.com/biographical-information/
She also wrote a book on diet/dermatology, The Clear Skin Diet. I thought it was excellent. Great if you can't get your cousin to Boston to see her.
If your cousin has a history of depression, I'd stay away from the Accutane.
Her behavior, crying in the office, was not very professional. She ought to have waited until she could get into the ladies room and cried in there. That speaks to a few more issues than OP may know about and possibly more depression than OP is aware of.
She found a lawyer that morning, faxed the document to her and had suggestions for negotiated changes by that afternoon.
I mention this because it can't hurt to have a lawyer take a look at the document she signed. And the "the face doesn't fit" comment could possibly be interpreted as discriminatory, especially if your cousin is a minority. Run it past a lawyer.
I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in tricky employment situations (once my employer tried to fire me because I was pregnant, no kidding!), and legal advice was invaluable in helping me keep my job.
Regarding her acne, there are dietary means and other drugs than Accutane to treat acne. There's a dermatologist in Boston who is a licensed nutritionist who treats acne with diet, and some medicines. Here's her info: http://www.integrativedermatology.com/biographical-information/
She also wrote a book on diet/dermatology, The Clear Skin Diet. I thought it was excellent. Great if you can't get your cousin to Boston to see her.
If your cousin has a history of depression, I'd stay away from the Accutane.
Her behavior, crying in the office, was not very professional. She ought to have waited until she could get into the ladies room and cried in there. That speaks to a few more issues than OP may know about and possibly more depression than OP is aware of.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:23
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will fly her out to stay with me for a while to calm down.
She is really upset about the "face doesn't fit" comment because she suffers from severe acne (just started Accutane recently), and is very self-conscious about it. She seems to think that they fired her literally because of her face. She once overheard the two women who were unkind to her talking about her skin, and now she's convinced that she was fired because she is "too ugly" and "no one wants to look at a face like mine." It is probably good that I am in a different country because I would like to go find her supervisor and slap him. The poor kid. I wish they had just told her a reason, or at least not said anything about a "face" at all.
I find that comment to be deeply, deeply disturbing and potentially discriminatory. Consult an employment lawyer. Not sure what the effect of whatever it is that she signed would be, though. Lawyer up.
As a PP noted above (with multiple links), that phrase means that "not a good personality fit," and has nothing to do with acne Don't fuel the fire here. Her niece got laid off because she wasn't a good personality fit. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. She needs to focus on moving forward and finding something better, not obsess over it.
Who says? The comment could mean she wasn't pretty enough. The comment in and off itself is unclear and could mean any number of things.
Incorrect. Please click on PP's links or just google it yourself. It's a common phrase used by Brits/Australians/probably other commonwealth nations. It means that the person is not a good personality fit.
Did this happen in England/Australia or another Commonwealth nation or in America?
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:21
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:You can fire someone for any reason or no reason with the exception of protected classes (age, race, gender discrimination, etc). It seems like it was done in a messy way, but not in an illegal way. She's lucky she got severance and it's common to sign a contract that she will not sue, etc. in exchange for the severance.
This, and,
your relative should take the money and thank her lucky stars. This job change will get her out of a clearly toxic environment and on to her Next Big Thing.
And. keep treating that acne. I had it too. It has calmed down but I'm 45 and still have problems. Accutane helped and Epiduo has been helpful too. Proactive helped over the years too.
Good luck to the young lady
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:20
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will fly her out to stay with me for a while to calm down.
She is really upset about the "face doesn't fit" comment because she suffers from severe acne (just started Accutane recently), and is very self-conscious about it. She seems to think that they fired her literally because of her face. She once overheard the two women who were unkind to her talking about her skin, and now she's convinced that she was fired because she is "too ugly" and "no one wants to look at a face like mine." It is probably good that I am in a different country because I would like to go find her supervisor and slap him. The poor kid. I wish they had just told her a reason, or at least not said anything about a "face" at all.
I find that comment to be deeply, deeply disturbing and potentially discriminatory. Consult an employment lawyer. Not sure what the effect of whatever it is that she signed would be, though. Lawyer up.
As a PP noted above (with multiple links), that phrase means that "not a good personality fit," and has nothing to do with acne Don't fuel the fire here. Her niece got laid off because she wasn't a good personality fit. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. She needs to focus on moving forward and finding something better, not obsess over it.
Who says? The comment could mean she wasn't pretty enough. The comment in and off itself is unclear and could mean any number of things.
Incorrect. Please click on PP's links or just google it yourself. It's a common phrase used by Brits/Australians/probably other commonwealth nations. It means that the person is not a good personality fit.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:19
Subject: Re:So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
what kind of job was it?
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:18
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
OP, perhaps you can view this as a learning experience for your niece. If other employees are harassing you (especially if it borders on bullying and even more so if the other employees are close to the supervisor), that's a huge red flag.
I know everyone advises against going to HR, but this is a case where if you can't find another job immediately, going to HR might actually protect you. You just have to make sure the complaint you make to HR sticks to facts.
While the boss would have likely found a way to fire your niece eventually, it would have taken longer if she had complained to HR, because then HR (in order to protect the company) would have leaned on the boss to build a case and have clear documentation. That takes time, and it would've given your niece a little time to apply for other jobs.
But the lesson should be, if a coworker who is a favorite of the supervisor or who is friends with the supervisor appears to have it out for you, it's not enough just to distance yourself from that employee. You have to be proactive.
I've seen this sort of thing happen before in past jobs.
I know everyone advises against going to HR, but this is a case where if you can't find another job immediately, going to HR might actually protect you. You just have to make sure the complaint you make to HR sticks to facts.
While the boss would have likely found a way to fire your niece eventually, it would have taken longer if she had complained to HR, because then HR (in order to protect the company) would have leaned on the boss to build a case and have clear documentation. That takes time, and it would've given your niece a little time to apply for other jobs.
But the lesson should be, if a coworker who is a favorite of the supervisor or who is friends with the supervisor appears to have it out for you, it's not enough just to distance yourself from that employee. You have to be proactive.
I've seen this sort of thing happen before in past jobs.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:18
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will fly her out to stay with me for a while to calm down.
She is really upset about the "face doesn't fit" comment because she suffers from severe acne (just started Accutane recently), and is very self-conscious about it. She seems to think that they fired her literally because of her face. She once overheard the two women who were unkind to her talking about her skin, and now she's convinced that she was fired because she is "too ugly" and "no one wants to look at a face like mine." It is probably good that I am in a different country because I would like to go find her supervisor and slap him. The poor kid. I wish they had just told her a reason, or at least not said anything about a "face" at all.
I find that comment to be deeply, deeply disturbing and potentially discriminatory. Consult an employment lawyer. Not sure what the effect of whatever it is that she signed would be, though. Lawyer up.
As a PP noted above (with multiple links), that phrase means that "not a good personality fit," and has nothing to do with acne Don't fuel the fire here. Her niece got laid off because she wasn't a good personality fit. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. She needs to focus on moving forward and finding something better, not obsess over it.
Who says? The comment could mean she wasn't pretty enough. The comment in and off itself is unclear and could mean any number of things.
Right. Someone above said it was a common expression in England. This ain't England. Was the boss English? Anyone saying this is just a normal expression for you don't fit in must must be experienced in working on the defense side of things in employment discrimination cases.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:14
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. Thanks for the replies. Is it normal for the supervisor to refuse to tell her why she was fired?
If you tell them why, then that opens it up for debate and lawsuits.
How long had she been there? In many states, even a "protected class" can be fired in the first X months for no reason at all.
A person who is a member of a protected class can be fired. The REASON for the firing cannot be the protected class status, no matter when it happens.
True, But everyone is in a protected class, really. We all have a race and a gender.. However, if she’s a minority, the comment “the face doesn’t fit” would be fodder for concern.
If she is a woman, which she is, the comment "the face doesn't fit" is cause for concern.
she was having problems with two older women, so not sure about that. They were kept on, so doesn't seem like any animus toward women.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:12
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will fly her out to stay with me for a while to calm down.
She is really upset about the "face doesn't fit" comment because she suffers from severe acne (just started Accutane recently), and is very self-conscious about it. She seems to think that they fired her literally because of her face. She once overheard the two women who were unkind to her talking about her skin, and now she's convinced that she was fired because she is "too ugly" and "no one wants to look at a face like mine." It is probably good that I am in a different country because I would like to go find her supervisor and slap him. The poor kid. I wish they had just told her a reason, or at least not said anything about a "face" at all.
I find that comment to be deeply, deeply disturbing and potentially discriminatory. Consult an employment lawyer. Not sure what the effect of whatever it is that she signed would be, though. Lawyer up.
As a PP noted above (with multiple links), that phrase means that "not a good personality fit," and has nothing to do with acne Don't fuel the fire here. Her niece got laid off because she wasn't a good personality fit. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. She needs to focus on moving forward and finding something better, not obsess over it.
Who says? The comment could mean she wasn't pretty enough. The comment in and off itself is unclear and could mean any number of things.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:11
Subject: Re:So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How long had she worked there?
Yes, it's standard to ask somone to sign taht document and then they get severance pay. They can choose not to sign it, but then no pay.
Also it's standard to have the person leav ethe day they're fired, otherwise tehre could be sabotage.
2 years. It was her first real, after-college job.
I think it is so strange that they told her and then had the lawyer/contract ready the next day. Why not wait until the lawyer was there with the contract to tell her? I wish she hadn't signed so that she could have had some kind of legal consultation herself first.
As a lawyer, my guess is they told her, then they told their attorney. My clients love to do things first and ask advice later. Keeps me in business.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 19:10
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. Thanks for the replies. Is it normal for the supervisor to refuse to tell her why she was fired?
If you tell them why, then that opens it up for debate and lawsuits.
How long had she been there? In many states, even a "protected class" can be fired in the first X months for no reason at all.
A person who is a member of a protected class can be fired. The REASON for the firing cannot be the protected class status, no matter when it happens.
True, But everyone is in a protected class, really. We all have a race and a gender.. However, if she’s a minority, the comment “the face doesn’t fit” would be fodder for concern.
If she is a woman, which she is, the comment "the face doesn't fit" is cause for concern.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 17:12
Subject: Re:So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really nice that you want to fly her out and take care of her. But, be careful. If money is tight for her, she only has two months to find a job and she can't waste that time wallowing in self pity. She needs to get on her feet very quickly.
+1000 Maybe save the trip money and do more Facetime. She might need to borrow money to cover living expenses in a few months.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 16:58
Subject: Re:So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
OP, it's really nice that you want to fly her out and take care of her. But, be careful. If money is tight for her, she only has two months to find a job and she can't waste that time wallowing in self pity. She needs to get on her feet very quickly.
Anonymous
05/16/2016 16:28
Subject: So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will fly her out to stay with me for a while to calm down.
She is really upset about the "face doesn't fit" comment because she suffers from severe acne (just started Accutane recently), and is very self-conscious about it. She seems to think that they fired her literally because of her face. She once overheard the two women who were unkind to her talking about her skin, and now she's convinced that she was fired because she is "too ugly" and "no one wants to look at a face like mine." It is probably good that I am in a different country because I would like to go find her supervisor and slap him. The poor kid. I wish they had just told her a reason, or at least not said anything about a "face" at all.
I find that comment to be deeply, deeply disturbing and potentially discriminatory. Consult an employment lawyer. Not sure what the effect of whatever it is that she signed would be, though. Lawyer up.
As a PP noted above (with multiple links), that phrase means that "not a good personality fit," and has nothing to do with acne Don't fuel the fire here. Her niece got laid off because she wasn't a good personality fit. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. She needs to focus on moving forward and finding something better, not obsess over it.