Anonymous
04/29/2016 19:30
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.
Which American parenting technique endorses not disciplining your children? I guess it depends on how you define "discipline".
I'm also pretty sure that people have been complaining for at least the last 2,000 years about the spoiled, entitled brats these days who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults .
Anonymous
04/29/2016 19:11
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.
Maybe it's the lack of spanking? Or more seriously, the lack of No and boundaries.
http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579354801246309702
Anonymous
04/29/2016 19:00
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't have experience at public middle but at private middle, and I am also surprised at the spoiled and sarcastic attitudes. I think it's popular wisdom that the poorer kids act worse, but honestly now I'm not so sure.
You're joking. The kids at my daughter's FARMS school were so much better behaved than the school she was moved to this year.
Yes. I'm a teacher at a school most people on DCUM would turn their noses up at because our families are not wealthy. I have a lot of students from Africa and South East Asia. These kids are without fail my best behaved and most respectful students. I'll take them over a classroom full of white entitled brats any day.
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 18:57
Subject: Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
My kids are taught to treat all adults with respect, regardless of how the adults behave.
I think that there's a difference between treating people with respect and actually respecting them. You can treat a person with respect even though you don't respect that person.
Right, that's what some of us are saying.. that even if the teacher is not worthy of respect because that teacher is horrible, it doesn't mean you don't treat them with respect, especially by a student. But, what can you expect from a society where parents also denigrate the teachers in front of their kids, or scream or speak condescendingly to teachers during PTC.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 18:56
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't have experience at public middle but at private middle, and I am also surprised at the spoiled and sarcastic attitudes. I think it's popular wisdom that the poorer kids act worse, but honestly now I'm not so sure.
You're joking. The kids at my daughter's FARMS school were so much better behaved than the school she was moved to this year.
Yes. I'm a teacher at a school most people on DCUM would turn their noses up at because our families are not wealthy. I have a lot of students from Africa and South East Asia. These kids are without fail my best behaved and most respectful students. I'll take them over a classroom full of white entitled brats any day.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 18:48
Subject: Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:
My kids are taught to treat all adults with respect, regardless of how the adults behave.
I think that there's a difference between treating people with respect and actually respecting them. You can treat a person with respect even though you don't respect that person.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 18:11
Subject: Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Two of my kids have gone thru middle school. Respect is a two way street. I have both heard and witnessed some pretty awful behavior by teachers -- cursing at kids, yelling at kids, denigrating kids, inappropriate discipline, discipline differentiated by race, lack of understanding about why some kids can't comply with demands due to lack of resources at home and misperceiving that as disobedience or insubordination, etc.
I'm not saying the behavior mentioned on the thread is acceptable, but you gotta give respect to get it.
So on day one, the kid should go into class not respecting the teacher, and the teacher has to earn his/her respect? No. The kid walks into class, sits, stays quiet when the teacher is talking, etc.. That is giving the teacher respect.
No, it's behaving appropriately in class. One would do this -- and I have done it -- even in a classroom with a teacher for whom one had zero respect.
My point is often the kids start out behaving respectfully, but the teachers are yelling and doing the other things I've mentioned above. That loses the respect of the students quickly. Teachers do it because they have the misperception that being a nasty hard-ass is the only way to maintain control in the classroom.
My kids are taught to treat all adults with respect, regardless of how the adults behave.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 17:03
Subject: Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Two of my kids have gone thru middle school. Respect is a two way street. I have both heard and witnessed some pretty awful behavior by teachers -- cursing at kids, yelling at kids, denigrating kids, inappropriate discipline, discipline differentiated by race, lack of understanding about why some kids can't comply with demands due to lack of resources at home and misperceiving that as disobedience or insubordination, etc.
I'm not saying the behavior mentioned on the thread is acceptable, but you gotta give respect to get it.
So on day one, the kid should go into class not respecting the teacher, and the teacher has to earn his/her respect? No. The kid walks into class, sits, stays quiet when the teacher is talking, etc.. That is giving the teacher respect.
No, it's behaving appropriately in class. One would do this -- and I have done it -- even in a classroom with a teacher for whom one had zero respect.
My point is often the kids start out behaving respectfully, but the teachers are yelling and doing the other things I've mentioned above. That loses the respect of the students quickly. Teachers do it because they have the misperception that being a nasty hard-ass is the only way to maintain control in the classroom.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 15:33
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think this issue is very complicated.
Stop by at Teen forum and you will see that is not single case event...
I have 2 kids in one of MS magnets.
One came crying from being bullied DURING MAGNET CLASS.
Another running around the house like maniac with "I can Weep.." Than my younger child came from elementary school, and mentioned that "Today we had Family Life, and were told that we are big now and can decide what we do. So mom, I am not doing extra math now... Sorry.."
And by the way, if you want to slap your child for "F..k you", you get, "I am calling the police, you are abusing me..."
Same "I am calling the police", if I am forced to clean my room or help around house.
And I get " All my friends do this.." on daily basis.
So what middle class parents suppose to do in such "friendly" environment?
I can't afford private school for 3 kids, I can't homeschool 3 kids and work full time.
Any suggestions?
Parenting classes, pronto.
And how parenting classes will help with bulling in class, or I am big and do not need any responsibilities spoon fed by school?
So now every parent suppose to get degree in psychology, so we can "gently" parent our "snowflakes" with total respect, when they learn to disrespect everyone in school?
Now days we are forced to raise kids in society that centered about "making kids happy".
By the way, police and social services will be at your doors immediately if they will think that you not treat your kid with "full" respect, however nobody will care if your child is sick or need mental help and you do not have enough money for treatment. We live in very strange society.
It's tough when you are one of a few parents that try to discipline your kids for back talking, and the rest don't don't do enough to curtail it. It's like swimming up stream. I agree, parenting has shifted too far the away. It's all about not hurting their self-esteem, treating them like they'll break if you dare try to discipline them.
Your MS kids are too old for a spanking now, so I would use privileges to discipline them. Have a family meeting and explain to them that from now on, this is the rule.
My 11 yr old sometimes will speak rudely to me. I know this is how he speaks to his friends. I have told him a few times that he may speak to his friends this way, but I am his parent, and he does not speak to me that way. Sometimes, he doesn't understand why what he said or the way he says something is considered disrespectful so I have to explain. But, it does start early because as you noticed, once they hit MS, it rachets up. I remember when I was in MS, too, and that's when most of the backtalking really started.
As for the bullying, try to find out what exactly the bullying is about. See if you and your child can come up with ways to handle it. This happened to my DC once, and I asked dC if he wanted me to talk to the school. He said no, that he would handle it, but we did talk about what was going on, and what methods he could use to deal with it. Seems like it has worked itself out for now. If the bullying is physical, then absolutely, contact the school.
Thanks for your response. I did not really was looking for answer on the forum board
, and we reported bulling to school (I was totally surprised that teacher did not controlled it during class...) And we do parent kids with privileges and time outs in their room.. And get "I do not care..." a lot.
My point is in this society it is complicated with all your best intentions to raise responsible kids, when they try to copy their schoolmates all the time and feel empowered with their "big status" and "freedom" implanted in their brain by schools. School does not teach responsibility or respect anymore somehow. They just try to "manage" kids.
What I also tried to highlight, that this is problem with any public school from any area W or magnet etc. This probably less an issue in private or religious schools, since teachers do not tolerate such behavior.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 15:20
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think this issue is very complicated.
Stop by at Teen forum and you will see that is not single case event...
I have 2 kids in one of MS magnets.
One came crying from being bullied DURING MAGNET CLASS.
Another running around the house like maniac with "I can Weep.." Than my younger child came from elementary school, and mentioned that "Today we had Family Life, and were told that we are big now and can decide what we do. So mom, I am not doing extra math now... Sorry.."
And by the way, if you want to slap your child for "F..k you", you get, "I am calling the police, you are abusing me..."
Same "I am calling the police", if I am forced to clean my room or help around house.
And I get " All my friends do this.." on daily basis.
So what middle class parents suppose to do in such "friendly" environment?
I can't afford private school for 3 kids, I can't homeschool 3 kids and work full time.
Any suggestions?
Parenting classes, pronto.
And how parenting classes will help with bulling in class, or I am big and do not need any responsibilities spoon fed by school?
So now every parent suppose to get degree in psychology, so we can "gently" parent our "snowflakes" with total respect, when they learn to disrespect everyone in school?
Now days we are forced to raise kids in society that centered about "making kids happy".
By the way, police and social services will be at your doors immediately if they will think that you not treat your kid with "full" respect, however nobody will care if your child is sick or need mental help and you do not have enough money for treatment. We live in very strange society.
It's tough when you are one of a few parents that try to discipline your kids for back talking, and the rest don't don't do enough to curtail it. It's like swimming up stream. I agree, parenting has shifted too far the away. It's all about not hurting their self-esteem, treating them like they'll break if you dare try to discipline them.
Your MS kids are too old for a spanking now, so I would use privileges to discipline them. Have a family meeting and explain to them that from now on, this is the rule.
My 11 yr old sometimes will speak rudely to me. I know this is how he speaks to his friends. I have told him a few times that he may speak to his friends this way, but I am his parent, and he does not speak to me that way. Sometimes, he doesn't understand why what he said or the way he says something is considered disrespectful so I have to explain. But, it does start early because as you noticed, once they hit MS, it rachets up. I remember when I was in MS, too, and that's when most of the backtalking really started.
As for the bullying, try to find out what exactly the bullying is about. See if you and your child can come up with ways to handle it. This happened to my DC once, and I asked dC if he wanted me to talk to the school. He said no, that he would handle it, but we did talk about what was going on, and what methods he could use to deal with it. Seems like it has worked itself out for now. If the bullying is physical, then absolutely, contact the school.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 15:05
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think this issue is very complicated.
Stop by at Teen forum and you will see that is not single case event...
I have 2 kids in one of MS magnets.
One came crying from being bullied DURING MAGNET CLASS.
Another running around the house like maniac with "I can Weep.." Than my younger child came from elementary school, and mentioned that "Today we had Family Life, and were told that we are big now and can decide what we do. So mom, I am not doing extra math now... Sorry.."
And by the way, if you want to slap your child for "F..k you", you get, "I am calling the police, you are abusing me..."
Same "I am calling the police", if I am forced to clean my room or help around house.
And I get " All my friends do this.." on daily basis.
So what middle class parents suppose to do in such "friendly" environment?
I can't afford private school for 3 kids, I can't homeschool 3 kids and work full time.
Any suggestions?
Parenting classes, pronto.
And how parenting classes will help with bulling in class, or I am big and do not need any responsibilities spoon fed by school?
So now every parent suppose to get degree in psychology, so we can "gently" parent our "snowflakes" with total respect, when they learn to disrespect everyone in school?
Now days we are forced to raise kids in society that centered about "making kids happy".
By the way, police and social services will be at your doors immediately if they will think that you not treat your kid with "full" respect, however nobody will care if your child is sick or need mental help and you do not have enough money for treatment. We live in very strange society.
You asked for suggestions. Don't ask for suggestions if you're not prepared to listen to them.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 14:59
Subject: Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Two of my kids have gone thru middle school. Respect is a two way street. I have both heard and witnessed some pretty awful behavior by teachers -- cursing at kids, yelling at kids, denigrating kids, inappropriate discipline, discipline differentiated by race, lack of understanding about why some kids can't comply with demands due to lack of resources at home and misperceiving that as disobedience or insubordination, etc.
I'm not saying the behavior mentioned on the thread is acceptable, but you gotta give respect to get it.
So on day one, the kid should go into class not respecting the teacher, and the teacher has to earn his/her respect? No. The kid walks into class, sits, stays quiet when the teacher is talking, etc.. That is giving the teacher respect.
No, it's behaving appropriately in class. One would do this -- and I have done it -- even in a classroom with a teacher for whom one had zero respect.
When one is quiet when another is speaking, that is also showing that person some respect. It does go hand in hand with not being rude.
Perhaps your definition and my definition of respect is different. To me, showing your teacher some respect also means doing what they ask, even if you don't like it, and not rolling your eyes and/or back talking. When a kid walks into class from day one, I would expect that kid to have some respect for the teacher by doing all those things I stated. When you have a not-so-nice/great teacher who yells, you may not have "respect" for that person, but you can have respect for the classroom and the teacher's position by not acting out. I expect a teacher to start out with some sort of respect, then the teacher could lose that respect if that teacher turns out to be a horrible teacher.
It's a bit like having respect for the Office of President, but not necessarily for the President him/herself.
The respect you are referring to is the type of respect one shows to someone for something that person did, like being a good teacher, or inventing the internet (sarcasm).
Anonymous
04/29/2016 14:59
Subject: Re:Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think this issue is very complicated.
Stop by at Teen forum and you will see that is not single case event...
I have 2 kids in one of MS magnets.
One came crying from being bullied DURING MAGNET CLASS.
Another running around the house like maniac with "I can Weep.." Than my younger child came from elementary school, and mentioned that "Today we had Family Life, and were told that we are big now and can decide what we do. So mom, I am not doing extra math now... Sorry.."
And by the way, if you want to slap your child for "F..k you", you get, "I am calling the police, you are abusing me..."
Same "I am calling the police", if I am forced to clean my room or help around house.
And I get " All my friends do this.." on daily basis.
So what middle class parents suppose to do in such "friendly" environment?
I can't afford private school for 3 kids, I can't homeschool 3 kids and work full time.
Any suggestions?
Parenting classes, pronto.
And how parenting classes will help with bulling in class, or I am big and do not need any responsibilities spoon fed by school?
So now every parent suppose to get degree in psychology, so we can "gently" parent our "snowflakes" with total respect, when they learn to disrespect everyone in school?
Now days we are forced to raise kids in society that centered about "making kids happy".
By the way, police and social services will be at your doors immediately if they will think that you not treat your kid with "full" respect, however nobody will care if your child is sick or need mental help and you do not have enough money for treatment. We live in very strange society.
Anonymous
04/29/2016 14:51
Subject: Disrespect in Middle Schools
Anonymous wrote:At my kids' private, they have to sign an honor code promising they'll uphold the rules and values of the school. The code and all their signatures are framed and hung in the main hallway of the main building so they walk by them every day. Violating the code can get you kicked out. I'm not saying there's no cursing in the locker room or shit-talking teachers behind their backs, but not a one of these kids would dare to do any of the stuff being described in this thread. That's a major reason we sacrifice so much to keep them there - both DH and I remember what kids were like when WE were in public school, and it's only gotten worse.
What are you basing this statement on?
Anonymous
04/29/2016 14:49
Subject: Disrespect in Middle Schools
At my kids' private, they have to sign an honor code promising they'll uphold the rules and values of the school. The code and all their signatures are framed and hung in the main hallway of the main building so they walk by them every day. Violating the code can get you kicked out. I'm not saying there's no cursing in the locker room or shit-talking teachers behind their backs, but not a one of these kids would dare to do any of the stuff being described in this thread. That's a major reason we sacrifice so much to keep them there - both DH and I remember what kids were like when WE were in public school, and it's only gotten worse.