Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 17:09     Subject: Re:Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So...OP you basically want Kasich out because it gives Trump a better chance on the first ballot.

If I am the RNC (i.e. establishment GOP) and I hate Trump, why would I ever tell Kasich to get out? That would be cutting off my own foot.

Plus, the only rail to derail Trump is an open convention. It would not surprise me one bit if the RNC is encouraging Kasich to stay in the race just for that reason.


It's not about giving Trump an edge but about a fair election process. Both Cruz and Trump want him out. He can still hold on to his delegates just like Rubio did and hope for a brokered convention.



I have seen the "unfair" word used more than once and I do not see how it applies. You are saying it is unfair for him to stay in the race although he cannot "win" the nomination that way. How is it unfair and to whom? Electoral politics are not inherently "fair."

Of course Cruz and Trump want him out. They realize he could steal some states and delegates. If I am him, I stay in the race and try to rack up as many additional delegates as I can. Then at least I would be going into the convention with some leverage and some influence on the nomination.


It's unfair to the voters who wait in line for hours and stay in the caucuses for hours and think their votes will determine the nominee. It's unfair to the candidates who still have mathematical chance to clinch the nomination. Kasich needs 120% of the remaining votes. His only hope is a brokered convention where delegates picked by the voters become unbound. Basically he is staying in a voting process to try to invalidate that exact election.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 17:00     Subject: Re:Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:Democracy doesn't work that way. He can stay in as long as he wants. Even if he drops out his name is on the ballet in those states already so what difference does it make?


(NP here) Yeah, but he should have the decency to drop out. That is what almost every other presidential contender in the past has done. Why does he not? It is very peculiar and speaks to his ego/arrogance. it must be HUGE.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 16:58     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The RNC can tell him to stop. There needs to be some rules for this process that candidates need to be removed from the process if they have been eliminated mathematically. Kasich can still go around the country and have his town halls. But he can't continue in a contest that he has been eliminated.


The RNC cannot tell any candidate to stop. That is not how this process works.
Can the DNC tell Bernie or Hillary to drop out? No.


Perhaps not "tell" but certainly "persuade".


If the RNC could persuade any candidate to drop out, then there would be no Trump candidacy.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 16:51     Subject: Re:Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So...OP you basically want Kasich out because it gives Trump a better chance on the first ballot.

If I am the RNC (i.e. establishment GOP) and I hate Trump, why would I ever tell Kasich to get out? That would be cutting off my own foot.

Plus, the only rail to derail Trump is an open convention. It would not surprise me one bit if the RNC is encouraging Kasich to stay in the race just for that reason.


It's not about giving Trump an edge but about a fair election process. Both Cruz and Trump want him out. He can still hold on to his delegates just like Rubio did and hope for a brokered convention.



I have seen the "unfair" word used more than once and I do not see how it applies. You are saying it is unfair for him to stay in the race although he cannot "win" the nomination that way. How is it unfair and to whom? Electoral politics are not inherently "fair."

Of course Cruz and Trump want him out. They realize he could steal some states and delegates. If I am him, I stay in the race and try to rack up as many additional delegates as I can. Then at least I would be going into the convention with some leverage and some influence on the nomination.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 13:25     Subject: Re:Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So...OP you basically want Kasich out because it gives Trump a better chance on the first ballot.

If I am the RNC (i.e. establishment GOP) and I hate Trump, why would I ever tell Kasich to get out? That would be cutting off my own foot.

Plus, the only rail to derail Trump is an open convention. It would not surprise me one bit if the RNC is encouraging Kasich to stay in the race just for that reason.


It's not about giving Trump an edge but about a fair election process. Both Cruz and Trump want him out. He can still hold on to his delegates just like Rubio did and hope for a brokered convention.


He could. Or he can keep running, and picking up additional delegates here and there.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 13:21     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:This could get good. Republicans imploding.Might be a good start to banning all political parties, and maybe the PACs. I know I'm dreaming.



Don't lump the rest of us in with this carnival. This is not the end of political parties -- which we could only ban by constitutional amendment. This is the GOP hitting rock bottom.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 13:17     Subject: Re:Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:So...OP you basically want Kasich out because it gives Trump a better chance on the first ballot.

If I am the RNC (i.e. establishment GOP) and I hate Trump, why would I ever tell Kasich to get out? That would be cutting off my own foot.

Plus, the only rail to derail Trump is an open convention. It would not surprise me one bit if the RNC is encouraging Kasich to stay in the race just for that reason.


It's not about giving Trump an edge but about a fair election process. Both Cruz and Trump want him out. He can still hold on to his delegates just like Rubio did and hope for a brokered convention.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 12:13     Subject: Re:Why is Kasich allowed to continue
So...OP you basically want Kasich out because it gives Trump a better chance on the first ballot.

If I am the RNC (i.e. establishment GOP) and I hate Trump, why would I ever tell Kasich to get out? That would be cutting off my own foot.

Plus, the only rail to derail Trump is an open convention. It would not surprise me one bit if the RNC is encouraging Kasich to stay in the race just for that reason.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 12:02     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:This could get good. Republicans imploding.Might be a good start to banning all political parties, and maybe the PACs. I know I'm dreaming.


Why ban political parties? If you want to vote for an independent, go ahead and vote for one in the general election. We had over a hundred years when political parties chose their presidential candidates with limited input from primary voters, and that did not lead to banning parties.

Maybe if we could ban ignorance.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 12:00     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The RNC can tell him to stop. There needs to be some rules for this process that candidates need to be removed from the process if they have been eliminated mathematically. Kasich can still go around the country and have his town halls. But he can't continue in a contest that he has been eliminated.


They can tell him to stop. They can remove support from anything he does. They can't MAKE his stop, though. It's a free election in a free country.

And they don't want him to stop. They don't like Cruz and they don't like Trump. If Kasich can be a tiny bit of a spoiler, they are happy to let him do that.

The convention is going to be contested. Kasich has a chance of winning on the floor, if the RNC opens it up to whoever.


I wish it were true. The election is only half of the equation, and the other half is party politics.

There is a primary election going on that makes this nominating process appear to be somewhat democratic. The rules are straightforward, if you get 50% + 1, you are the nominee. No party politics can alter this part of the process. Kasich has been eliminated from this part of the process. His only hope is going to be the same way that Paul Ryan or Marco Rubio get the nomination. It's unfair for him to play the spoiler in the voting part of the process when there is still two serious candidates that have mathematical chance.


Why is it unfair? A contested convention has always been a possibility, and prior to 1956 or so was routine. He does have a mathematical chance - there is a mathematical chance that no one gets a majority on the first ballot, and that there will be a second ballot.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 12:00     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:This could get good. Republicans imploding.Might be a good start to banning all political parties, and maybe the PACs. I know I'm dreaming.


It does make you wonder though - where this could all lead...
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 11:53     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
This could get good. Republicans imploding.Might be a good start to banning all political parties, and maybe the PACs. I know I'm dreaming.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 11:48     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Despite recent endorsements for Cruz, Kasich is the preferred Establishment candidate. He will stay in it until the bitter end, hoping that he is selected on the convention floor in the 3rd or 4th round of brokered voting. That's his only path to the nomination.

I think Romney and Graham's tepid endorsements of Cruz are more about avoiding all-out civil war in the party. If someone like Kasich - or even a complete outsider like Paul Ryan - are selected at the convention, unhinged Trump and Cruz supporters will go ballistic. It will make Chicago '68 look like a Disney parade.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 11:42     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The RNC can tell him to stop. There needs to be some rules for this process that candidates need to be removed from the process if they have been eliminated mathematically. Kasich can still go around the country and have his town halls. But he can't continue in a contest that he has been eliminated.


They can tell him to stop. They can remove support from anything he does. They can't MAKE his stop, though. It's a free election in a free country.

And they don't want him to stop. They don't like Cruz and they don't like Trump. If Kasich can be a tiny bit of a spoiler, they are happy to let him do that.

The convention is going to be contested. Kasich has a chance of winning on the floor, if the RNC opens it up to whoever.


I wish it were true. The election is only half of the equation, and the other half is party politics.

There is a primary election going on that makes this nominating process appear to be somewhat democratic. The rules are straightforward, if you get 50% + 1, you are the nominee. No party politics can alter this part of the process. Kasich has been eliminated from this part of the process. His only hope is going to be the same way that Paul Ryan or Marco Rubio get the nomination. It's unfair for him to play the spoiler in the voting part of the process when there is still two serious candidates that have mathematical chance.


The flaw in your reasoning is that you're assuming it's somehow better that a candidate be nominated on the first ballot rather than on subsequent ballots, so party officials should pull levers to make that happen. It's like saying that a regulation-time win is better than an overtime win, so the refs should favor the team that's winning late to prevent overtime. The rules say you need to win 50% against all comers in the primaries, or it's an open convention. I thought conservatives loved rules.

-- Gleeful Democrat
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2016 11:10     Subject: Why is Kasich allowed to continue
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The RNC can tell him to stop. There needs to be some rules for this process that candidates need to be removed from the process if they have been eliminated mathematically. Kasich can still go around the country and have his town halls. But he can't continue in a contest that he has been eliminated.


They can tell him to stop. They can remove support from anything he does. They can't MAKE his stop, though. It's a free election in a free country.

And they don't want him to stop. They don't like Cruz and they don't like Trump. If Kasich can be a tiny bit of a spoiler, they are happy to let him do that.

The convention is going to be contested. Kasich has a chance of winning on the floor, if the RNC opens it up to whoever.


I wish it were true. The election is only half of the equation, and the other half is party politics.

There is a primary election going on that makes this nominating process appear to be somewhat democratic. The rules are straightforward, if you get 50% + 1, you are the nominee. No party politics can alter this part of the process. Kasich has been eliminated from this part of the process. His only hope is going to be the same way that Paul Ryan or Marco Rubio get the nomination. It's unfair for him to play the spoiler in the voting part of the process when there is still two serious candidates that have mathematical chance.