Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For managerial positions that's probably the issue you're running into.

I'm not a big fan of MBAs (the degrees, not the people) but I do see it as something that helps people get into management and consulting.

Don't take any offense at this but you may be great at what you do but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'd be a great manager. When you say take on high profile assignments, do you mean actually leading the projects or just being a contributor?

If you're not actually leading them, it'll be hard for management to see that you possess the qualities to be a good manager.

To give an example, I recently came across a resume for a department lead where the resume was like five pages of technical experience. While the experience was impressive, the question (not mine) was if the person had what it takes to manage a department and a group of people.

Hopefully as the new management gets to know you and see your work, they'll appreciate your value and give you an opportunity to interview for those positions. It may be something that you want to express interest in if you have any professional development meetings or anything like that.

Or you may even be able to find another organization that will give you a shot.

Not all managers are necessarily technical experts. Where I know some industries and environments where the big talkers who have the necessary credentials are able to move into managerial positions even though they were lacking in the actual knowledge area. Sometimes they don't work out and are able to land elsewhere. We used to call it promoting incompetence as well as revolving doors among a small circle of organizations.

And there are successful managers who might not be able to jump into our seats and do our work but are great at managing people and workflow.

I don't think management is the next step for everyone up the career ladder, at least in the industry that I'm in. So shouldn't look at it as lowering your expectations if you end up not pursuing a position.

For your interests and goals, it sounds like a MBA would be beneficial for you. And as others said if it's not possible right now, maybe wait a couple of years down the road when it will become better. There are a lot of programs out there for working adults.

And also a lot of it is just coming across the right opportunity. Maybe after current management comes to appreciate your skillsets more or finding another organization that is willing to substitute education with experience.

No offense taken. They obviously don't see me as management material enough to the point where they won't let me interview. The old guard did, but they were waiting for a slot to open up. HQ made wholesale changes and replaced them all. That window is now closed.

Yes, in my role I lead engagements. I select, manage and train staff, or contractors. I am responsible for planning and budgeting. I also need to bring in a certain amount of business annually, and a large part of my performance assessment is based on these numbers. Management at my company is not necessarily about managing people. Its more about client relationship building, strategic planning and revenue generation-- all things that I do exceeding well at based on my evals and #s.

I have a sneaky feeling, HQ is punishing me for turning down an opportunity to lead one of their new offices. The timing and location (UK) did not, and still does not work for my family situation. When the old guard got pushed out, I thought they would promote me since I was in line to take over from my boss. Instead they replaced them with quants who value academic credentials over experience. All the new and middle management (my level) hires are mainly ivy leaguers/top 15 MBAs with minimal experience in my field. They are very smart and I love the perspective they bring to projects, but they don't know how, and have little desire to sell. They just want to check the box on experience so they can eventually get hired by a client. No shame in that, but this new approach has brought the #s for our office down quite a bit, but its my understanding that HQ wants to stay the course on a three to five year target. Maybe by the time I wait it out, I get my MBA on a 5 year track, this new regime will be swept out and then I'll get a shot.

Your problem isn't the degree situation. You were offered an opportunity. You turned it down. They aren't punishing you, but you've made it clear that moving up isn't your priority (or at least you aren't willing to pay your dues to get there).

In ALL of your posts, you've mentioned over and over and over again your family situation, your family obligations, your family needs. That's fine. Family is a great priority to have. But if you've even hinted at that when turning down what was likely a great opportunity, then your issue is that you mommy tracked yourself. They see you as a good employee, for sure, but they don't see you as having the kind of ambition that they are looking for in managers.

My guess is that they (as a company) value strong ambition and drive. That's why they are hiring people they know will move up or take the experience and bounce. It still -- for whatever reason -- is worth it to them to hire fast movers.

You turned down an opportunity that (I'm guessing) any one of those Ivy League hires would have jumped on. Their thinking would have been, "Hey, I work a year in the UK, gain the valuable experience, and then put in for something else or bounce."

It's not the degree that they value or that is holding you back; it's the drive.

And I, for one, think there is nothing wrong with prioritizing your family, but it sounds like you are in the wrong industry. A degree won't change the reality. It sounds like you have to be willing to travel, relocate, take the opportunities that come your way, put in the hours if you want to be seen as a major player.

And while you may be good at what you do and have results to show for it, you don't seem to management like you are driven. Honestly, you don't seem that way even just on this thread.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not the job hopping, alpha type. But I've kind of made peace with that and have avoided industries (like finance or law) where that kind of thing is really important in getting ahead. I think you either need to make with who you are and the work-life balance you want or you need to dramatically change your approach/demeanor. If you choose the latter, you need to make a conscious effort never (and I mean never) in the workplace to even hint at limitations due to family obligations. You can't seem choosy about the opportunities you want; you have to take the ones you get or accept that you won't climb that ladder.

Anonymous wrote:I have a masters degrees but only becasue my dad was willing to pay for it and I wanted to spend a year on Europe.

It was basically an additional year of undergrad - I didn't learn anything special.

I think it's a mistake to get 100 thousand in debt for degrees like public policy, ir, etc. yet you do see job ads asking for this. It's dumb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For managerial positions that's probably the issue you're running into.

I'm not a big fan of MBAs (the degrees, not the people) but I do see it as something that helps people get into management and consulting.

Don't take any offense at this but you may be great at what you do but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'd be a great manager. When you say take on high profile assignments, do you mean actually leading the projects or just being a contributor?

If you're not actually leading them, it'll be hard for management to see that you possess the qualities to be a good manager.

To give an example, I recently came across a resume for a department lead where the resume was like five pages of technical experience. While the experience was impressive, the question (not mine) was if the person had what it takes to manage a department and a group of people.

Hopefully as the new management gets to know you and see your work, they'll appreciate your value and give you an opportunity to interview for those positions. It may be something that you want to express interest in if you have any professional development meetings or anything like that.

Or you may even be able to find another organization that will give you a shot.

Not all managers are necessarily technical experts. Where I know some industries and environments where the big talkers who have the necessary credentials are able to move into managerial positions even though they were lacking in the actual knowledge area. Sometimes they don't work out and are able to land elsewhere. We used to call it promoting incompetence as well as revolving doors among a small circle of organizations.

And there are successful managers who might not be able to jump into our seats and do our work but are great at managing people and workflow.

I don't think management is the next step for everyone up the career ladder, at least in the industry that I'm in. So shouldn't look at it as lowering your expectations if you end up not pursuing a position.

For your interests and goals, it sounds like a MBA would be beneficial for you. And as others said if it's not possible right now, maybe wait a couple of years down the road when it will become better. There are a lot of programs out there for working adults.

And also a lot of it is just coming across the right opportunity. Maybe after current management comes to appreciate your skillsets more or finding another organization that is willing to substitute education with experience.

No offense taken. They obviously don't see me as management material enough to the point where they won't let me interview. The old guard did, but they were waiting for a slot to open up. HQ made wholesale changes and replaced them all. That window is now closed.

Yes, in my role I lead engagements. I select, manage and train staff, or contractors. I am responsible for planning and budgeting. I also need to bring in a certain amount of business annually, and a large part of my performance assessment is based on these numbers. Management at my company is not necessarily about managing people. Its more about client relationship building, strategic planning and revenue generation-- all things that I do exceeding well at based on my evals and #s.

I have a sneaky feeling, HQ is punishing me for turning down an opportunity to lead one of their new offices. The timing and location (UK) did not, and still does not work for my family situation. When the old guard got pushed out, I thought they would promote me since I was in line to take over from my boss. Instead they replaced them with quants who value academic credentials over experience. All the new and middle management (my level) hires are mainly ivy leaguers/top 15 MBAs with minimal experience in my field. They are very smart and I love the perspective they bring to projects, but they don't know how, and have little desire to sell. They just want to check the box on experience so they can eventually get hired by a client. No shame in that, but this new approach has brought the #s for our office down quite a bit, but its my understanding that HQ wants to stay the course on a three to five year target. Maybe by the time I wait it out, I get my MBA on a 5 year track, this new regime will be swept out and then I'll get a shot.

Anonymous wrote:For managerial positions that's probably the issue you're running into.

I'm not a big fan of MBAs (the degrees, not the people) but I do see it as something that helps people get into management and consulting.

Don't take any offense at this but you may be great at what you do but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'd be a great manager. When you say take on high profile assignments, do you mean actually leading the projects or just being a contributor?

If you're not actually leading them, it'll be hard for management to see that you possess the qualities to be a good manager.

To give an example, I recently came across a resume for a department lead where the resume was like five pages of technical experience. While the experience was impressive, the question (not mine) was if the person had what it takes to manage a department and a group of people.

Hopefully as the new management gets to know you and see your work, they'll appreciate your value and give you an opportunity to interview for those positions. It may be something that you want to express interest in if you have any professional development meetings or anything like that.

Or you may even be able to find another organization that will give you a shot.

Not all managers are necessarily technical experts. Where I know some industries and environments where the big talkers who have the necessary credentials are able to move into managerial positions even though they were lacking in the actual knowledge area. Sometimes they don't work out and are able to land elsewhere. We used to call it promoting incompetence as well as revolving doors among a small circle of organizations.

And there are successful managers who might not be able to jump into our seats and do our work but are great at managing people and workflow.

I don't think management is the next step for everyone up the career ladder, at least in the industry that I'm in. So shouldn't look at it as lowering your expectations if you end up not pursuing a position.

For your interests and goals, it sounds like a MBA would be beneficial for you. And as others said if it's not possible right now, maybe wait a couple of years down the road when it will become better. There are a lot of programs out there for working adults.

And also a lot of it is just coming across the right opportunity. Maybe after current management comes to appreciate your skillsets more or finding another organization that is willing to substitute education with experience.

Anonymous wrote:OP. I'm not really familiar with your field and industry and had to look up the certifications you mentioned having.

Originally when you mentioned economies, I thought you might've been in economics, where I might be able to see a higher level degree being a requirement. I considered studying economics and that was one of the reasons why I decided against it.

Assuming that this is the same CFA you mentioned having:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_Financial_Analyst

It sounds pretty impressive, the link above says it has a low pass rate, and I'd find it hard to believe an employer would overlook this certification if you applied.

So as mentioned in a couple of other posts, if you see a job that you're interested in, definitely apply.

What type of positions are you applying for? ie are they kind of the same with what you're doing now but with a different scope and more pay? Or are you trying to get into management?

If you're trying to get into management, it might be hard for employers to see that you have any experience or skills being a successful manager. You might be very good in the knowledge and technical aspects of the position.

So I think a lack of masters degree might hold you back from a managerial position. Although it's still obtainable without one, just might take a lot of smaller steps. ie first go to positions where you can lead smaller groups and processes.

But for other positions, you should definitely still apply for it anyways and sell your experience, knowledge and certifications. You could even try any manager positions if that's what you're shooting for. Sometimes it's just finding the right opportunity or have someone give you the chance.

I think we all agree that this degree creep is kind of ridiculous and doesn't make sense on how higher degrees are used as baselines for requirements for some jobs.