Google Bradley van Hoek - she helps with this type of situation.

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I think it's safe to say the previous respondents to OP are miserable women. I'll ask the most basic of questions regarding this that no one has bothered to ask:

What, in your opinion, makes him a "narcissist"?

from dictionary.com:

noun
1. a person who is overly self-involved, and often vain and selfish.
2. Psychoanalysis. a person who suffers from narcissism, deriving erotic gratification from admiration of his or her own physical or mental attributes.

It's not necessary to minimize others' experience dealing with an NPD spouse or discount women who share their insight as "miserable." About 5% of the population is NPD, some statisticians put that % higher. That's one out of 20, so I don't think its out of the ordinary that people who have gone through this reply.

The dictionary is not the standard here. DSM V is the clinical manual to strictly compare characteristics, and it's very difficult to diagnose. NPDs are highly manipulative. These people often have a public persona and a private persona, so I wouldn't be so quick to discount a spouse's experience or insinuate it's not believable. It's a type of emotional abuse, and like physical abuse, it's very sneaky, done privately, and extremely soul crushing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No shortage of sociopathic narcissist men. What advice? Get a lawyer, and get out.

Fuck you. No shortage on women either.

...said the narcissistic sociopath male.

+1
Yep hit a nerve, lol.

Wow, I think it's safe to say the previous respondents to OP are miserable women. I'll ask the most basic of questions regarding this that no one has bothered to ask:

What, in your opinion, makes him a "narcissist"?

from dictionary.com:

noun
1. a person who is overly self-involved, and often vain and selfish.
2. Psychoanalysis. a person who suffers from narcissism, deriving erotic gratification from admiration of his or her own physical or mental attributes.

Anonymous wrote:Recommend this book:

Splitting: Protecting yourself while divorcing someone with a borderline or narcissistic personality disorder.

If you find it helpful please pass it long. It's a nightmare to go through this with a normal person. BPD and NPD make it quadruple hell.

Amen to that. Another good book is "I hate you, don't leave me". More about BPD, but very helpful in navigating our post-marriage relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone care to share any advice? He likes to do battle. I prefer to avoid battles when possible. Other than 'get the best lawyer possible' what advice helped you in this kind of situation?

Have you been to court yet?

No, I am only just preparing to leave.

What does it mean that the courts are good to such types of people? How? And I don't have much money for a court battle. Can't lawyers come to an agreement without going to court? What kinds of strategies do these men use?

I assume this is explained in that book also. Thank you for the recommendation, I will look for it.

You should definitely speak to an attorney before you attempt to move your kids to another state without your spouse's approval. That's asking for trouble. If you don't have children, you have more options.

Better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Narcissists will play games. Go then call a lawyer. Say you are "scared".

It's not better to ask for forgiveness from a judge. That's an asinine statement. It could cost her a lot in a custody case.

Do not speak to him on the phone. Have him use email as his only source of contact. You will have a record of every interaction. If he can't be civil on email, have him communicate only through your attorney.

Also do not ever agree to anything on the spot. Take your time to respond. For me, this was hard to do. My ex had a way of making me feel bad for not giving him a quick answer on everything. I felt bullied during my marriage and during the divorce process.

Anonymous wrote:Don't bother with mediation, go straight to court. It will save you time, energy and money in the long run.

+1

And expect everything to take longer, be more complicated, and cost more. It totally sucks, but power through.

No advice but honestly wishing you the best of luck. My good friend left her narcissistic husband three years ago and they are still in court. Every single thing is a fight with him. They are completely bankrupt, the kids are a mess and so is she. Still totally worth it- he was horrible, was cheating on her and was/is a shitty father that never saw the kids. He has three lawyers, has fired several over the course of their trial. Just make sure you have the best lawyers who are experienced dealing with people like this and keep your good friends close as you will need their support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone care to share any advice? He likes to do battle. I prefer to avoid battles when possible. Other than 'get the best lawyer possible' what advice helped you in this kind of situation?

Have you been to court yet?

No, I am only just preparing to leave.

What does it mean that the courts are good to such types of people? How? And I don't have much money for a court battle. Can't lawyers come to an agreement without going to court? What kinds of strategies do these men use?

I assume this is explained in that book also. Thank you for the recommendation, I will look for it.

You should definitely speak to an attorney before you attempt to move your kids to another state without your spouse's approval. That's asking for trouble. If you don't have children, you have more options.

Better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Narcissists will play games. Go then call a lawyer. Say you are "scared".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone care to share any advice? He likes to do battle. I prefer to avoid battles when possible. Other than 'get the best lawyer possible' what advice helped you in this kind of situation?

Have you been to court yet?

No, I am only just preparing to leave.

What does it mean that the courts are good to such types of people? How? And I don't have much money for a court battle. Can't lawyers come to an agreement without going to court? What kinds of strategies do these men use?

I assume this is explained in that book also. Thank you for the recommendation, I will look for it.

You should definitely speak to an attorney before you attempt to move your kids to another state without your spouse's approval. That's asking for trouble. If you don't have children, you have more options.

Never feel guilty and do not admit guilt.

if he says "don't you feel guilty?" cut him off with "Do you feel guilty?" If he tries, "stop trying to change the subject" respond "Don't you feel guilty?" said very sincerely. and then walk away.

"we are talking about you" etc. respond "We are talking about you."

Realize that people like this have a script in their mind and an expectation built around that script that has evolved with practice. Your goal is to respond in such a way that is absolutely unexpected. This momentarily interrupts their script and makes them pause. They hate it.

Make sure to always look them in the eye directly. Now when other people are around, you want to look just slightly above their eyes - maybe the bridge of their nose. This will also drive them nuts but to the casual observer it will only look like you are looking them right in the eye. I have seen this played out and the guy couldn't control himself anymore and said "she refuses to even look me in the eye!". Lawyer sitting off to the side replied" She is looking you in the eye. I am sitting her watching her do it." Dh keeps going about how she isn't. Result the room of people just think the DH is nuts.

Anonymous wrote:Don't bother with mediation, go straight to court. It will save you time, energy and money in the long run.

I so agree with this advice. If your soon to be X is anything like mine, it was all about what he wanted and everything that wasn't what he wanted was litigated. Our first agreement was a waste of money (used an attorney who focuses on mediated agreements) and simply set me back those funds. Also, you can expect to be demonized. In one motion, he alleged I was an alcoholic. Etc. Ignore these irrelevant items and focus on what you want, don't get sidetracked or confused. Maybe make a list of goals right now, before it gets nasty (e.g. "50% of the marital retirement pool, retain my mother's inheritance, and 50% of the home value") that you can return to as the situation unravels.

One other thing to think about: my X was very comfortable getting nasty with other people. He'd cc: friends, family, etc. on accusations about me. If you are going to feel vulnerable on this point, you may want to "get out in front of the story" and not let him get to tell the tale. If you don't care, (more where I am), then ignore and focus on your goals.

Anonymous wrote:Following this thread. I am also getting ready to divorce my narcissistic husband! I have no advice to offer. I am preparing for battle myself! Good luck OP

Me three! OP and PP, we have entered a sisterhood of survivors. I'm only a few months post-filing, and I am surprised by the strength I have. (What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, amirite?) The one HUGE advantage we all have is that we've lived with these men for X years, so we know how they think. We can predict their next move with 99% accuracy. Expect every tiny little thing to be litigated, down to the last paperclip that you discover under the couch on moving day.

Good luck, we can do this! Good will prevail in the end.

Anonymous wrote:Get a real medical diagnosis.

This rarely happens. It's not like the NPD husband wants to cooperate and get better. That's the thing with NPD. They're very charming, manipulative, and outwardly have high markers of self esteem. They're not too motivated to cooperate with a diagnostician.

Plus you don't wanting to be saying to the court, Biff has NPD. What you want to do is show patterns of behavior. Court doesn't care about a diagnosis.