She said she was abused, not he

She said he was abusive because he isn't. That's just a catch all vague phrase women invariably use to heap all blame upon the husband and divest themselves of any responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:A lot of stuff isn't worth arguing about, what I've found. Save the arguments for the big stuff, but I'm wondering why she said he was abusive.

What abusive things are we talking here?

Why is it such a huge revelation to so many women that most of the things they pick at their husbands about aren't worth arguing about? You shouldn't have needed therapy to know that if you had half a brain.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My therapist (IC) wanted to bring my DW in a couple of times and she did, but it made her intensely uncomfortable. She is fine with counseling when I do it, but if the focus ever shifts to her, she's unwilling to face it. The same thing happened with a brief period of MC we did after a difficult period we were going through. As long as the focus was on how fucked up I am, she's good. When the counselor wanted to talk about her, she got really upset and we stopped seeing him soon after.

Naturally, this has reinforced my belief that she has stuff she is hiding from me for one reason or another.

This is very common among women. They can't own their deficiencies . One of the reasons they are horrible leaders. When you come to realize this as a spouse, you feel horribly alone and nauseated .

Well, I will say to you that for the past year I, DW, have made a point of taking blame/responsibility for every last thing that does or may happen and being ultra flexible - and DH is silly happy.
Men can be so defensive they just can't take much that doesn't go their way.
I just decided it wasn't worth the disagreements anymore. You want to do it if this way? Sure...
About huge life decisions I guess we'd still chat, but everything else -eh, whatever.

You completely missed the point. You're supposed to own up to your own shit, not his. This is just as counterproductive in the long run.

You both missed the point. The problem was that pp, not her husband. When she changed her behavior, things improved. She still doesn't want to admit that she was the cause of the marital strife, but actions speak louder than words.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My therapist (IC) wanted to bring my DW in a couple of times and she did, but it made her intensely uncomfortable. She is fine with counseling when I do it, but if the focus ever shifts to her, she's unwilling to face it. The same thing happened with a brief period of MC we did after a difficult period we were going through. As long as the focus was on how fucked up I am, she's good. When the counselor wanted to talk about her, she got really upset and we stopped seeing him soon after.

Naturally, this has reinforced my belief that she has stuff she is hiding from me for one reason or another.

This is very common among women. They can't own their deficiencies . One of the reasons they are horrible leaders. When you come to realize this as a spouse, you feel horribly alone and nauseated .

Well, I will say to you that for the past year I, DW, have made a point of taking blame/responsibility for every last thing that does or may happen and being ultra flexible - and DH is silly happy.
Men can be so defensive they just can't take much that doesn't go their way.
I just decided it wasn't worth the disagreements anymore. You want to do it if this way? Sure...
About huge life decisions I guess we'd still chat, but everything else -eh, whatever.

So pp you spin it that your husband is defensive-no all men are-not that you are critical and argumentative. All it took for your husband to be happy was for you to stop being a bitch. You don't want to admit you were a bitch and that when you finally stopped your marriage greatly improved. This is a pretty typical approach women take to marital therapy.

A lot of stuff isn't worth arguing about, what I've found. Save the arguments for the big stuff, but I'm wondering why she said he was abusive.

What abusive things are we talking here?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My therapist (IC) wanted to bring my DW in a couple of times and she did, but it made her intensely uncomfortable. She is fine with counseling when I do it, but if the focus ever shifts to her, she's unwilling to face it. The same thing happened with a brief period of MC we did after a difficult period we were going through. As long as the focus was on how fucked up I am, she's good. When the counselor wanted to talk about her, she got really upset and we stopped seeing him soon after.

Naturally, this has reinforced my belief that she has stuff she is hiding from me for one reason or another.

This is very common among women. They can't own their deficiencies . One of the reasons they are horrible leaders. When you come to realize this as a spouse, you feel horribly alone and nauseated .

Well, I will say to you that for the past year I, DW, have made a point of taking blame/responsibility for every last thing that does or may happen and being ultra flexible - and DH is silly happy.
Men can be so defensive they just can't take much that doesn't go their way.
I just decided it wasn't worth the disagreements anymore. You want to do it if this way? Sure...
About huge life decisions I guess we'd still chat, but everything else -eh, whatever.

You completely missed the point. You're supposed to own up to your own shit, not his. This is just as counterproductive in the long run.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My therapist (IC) wanted to bring my DW in a couple of times and she did, but it made her intensely uncomfortable. She is fine with counseling when I do it, but if the focus ever shifts to her, she's unwilling to face it. The same thing happened with a brief period of MC we did after a difficult period we were going through. As long as the focus was on how fucked up I am, she's good. When the counselor wanted to talk about her, she got really upset and we stopped seeing him soon after.

Naturally, this has reinforced my belief that she has stuff she is hiding from me for one reason or another.

This is very common among women. They can't own their deficiencies . One of the reasons they are horrible leaders. When you come to realize this as a spouse, you feel horribly alone and nauseated .

Well, I will say to you that for the past year I, DW, have made a point of taking blame/responsibility for every last thing that does or may happen and being ultra flexible - and DH is silly happy.
Men can be so defensive they just can't take much that doesn't go their way.
I just decided it wasn't worth the disagreements anymore. You want to do it if this way? Sure...
About huge life decisions I guess we'd still chat, but everything else -eh, whatever.

That seems like a horrible approach. You take the blame for everything?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 99% sure my DH doesn't want to do therapy, because the therapist will confirm to me what an unhealthy and abusive relationship I am in. And he's afraid if an outside person confirms this, I will leave him. Right now, he can keep playing it off like I overreact and I'm the one with the problem.

That's not what they do. You might go and find that you are an ass pain as well, you never know.

If he's truly abusive the therapist who is good will tell him no matter what she does, it doesn't excuse his behavior. Yes the entire relationship will be examined, probably her co-dependency if it is an unhealthy relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My therapist (IC) wanted to bring my DW in a couple of times and she did, but it made her intensely uncomfortable. She is fine with counseling when I do it, but if the focus ever shifts to her, she's unwilling to face it. The same thing happened with a brief period of MC we did after a difficult period we were going through. As long as the focus was on how fucked up I am, she's good. When the counselor wanted to talk about her, she got really upset and we stopped seeing him soon after.

Naturally, this has reinforced my belief that she has stuff she is hiding from me for one reason or another.

This is very common among women. They can't own their deficiencies . One of the reasons they are horrible leaders. When you come to realize this as a spouse, you feel horribly alone and nauseated .

Well, I will say to you that for the past year I, DW, have made a point of taking blame/responsibility for every last thing that does or may happen and being ultra flexible - and DH is silly happy.
Men can be so defensive they just can't take much that doesn't go their way.
I just decided it wasn't worth the disagreements anymore. You want to do it if this way? Sure...
About huge life decisions I guess we'd still chat, but everything else -eh, whatever.

Anonymous wrote:I'm 99% sure my DH doesn't want to do therapy, because the therapist will confirm to me what an unhealthy and abusive relationship I am in. And he's afraid if an outside person confirms this, I will leave him. Right now, he can keep playing it off like I overreact and I'm the one with the problem.

That's not what they do. You might go and find that you are an ass pain as well, you never know.

Anonymous wrote:We tried it, and it was great for me. I put a lot into it and got a lot out of it. She did not, and did not listen to a word the therapist said. She apparently knows more than the therapist. So, I gave up on it when I realized I was the only one listening.

It's like rehab, it fails 8 out of 10 times. Counselors are people, some are good some are bad. If you're in an abusive relationship or with a spouse that cheats it's better to get out.

Anonymous wrote:My therapist (IC) wanted to bring my DW in a couple of times and she did, but it made her intensely uncomfortable. She is fine with counseling when I do it, but if the focus ever shifts to her, she's unwilling to face it. The same thing happened with a brief period of MC we did after a difficult period we were going through. As long as the focus was on how fucked up I am, she's good. When the counselor wanted to talk about her, she got really upset and we stopped seeing him soon after.

Naturally, this has reinforced my belief that she has stuff she is hiding from me for one reason or another.

This is very common among women. They can't own their deficiencies . One of the reasons they are horrible leaders. When you come to realize this as a spouse, you feel horribly alone and nauseated .

Anonymous wrote:I'm 99% sure my DH doesn't want to do therapy, because the therapist will confirm to me what an unhealthy and abusive relationship I am in. And he's afraid if an outside person confirms this, I will leave him. Right now, he can keep playing it off like I overreact and I'm the one with the problem.

And if the therapist didn't tell you what you want to hear-it's all your husband's fault-would you listen to that?

No, you would dismiss it and get a different therapist.

Your therapy is absolutely worthless because of your self selection for confirmation bias. You're living in a self created fucked up echo chamber in which you only hear that which confirms what you want to hear, which is all your problems are caused by someone else, in this case, your spouse. That means you never have to change and grow.

But remember, by insisting on externalizing the source of your unhappiness, you deny yourself any ability to ever change.

Look in the mirror sweetie. A good therapist would have forced you tons on that already. The one you have now is just a check collector.

I pissed money down the MC hole for years. Every Monday night, DH would just complain about how I wasn't doing enough around the house, or committed enough to our child, or that I worked too much (I was and am the primary breadwinner). I finally quit. I was in counseling on my own working on my own issues, and I finally had had enough of being told I wasn't doing enough. I'd fight back by dishing all over DH. Neither of us would admit that we were each contributing to the demise of our marriage. Quitting MC was almost the best thing I did for my marriage.

We are now years past MC. DH and I both have different (but lower paying) jobs that are more in line with our temperaments (he even changed careers). We acknowledge we both have faults and we ignore them (for the most part). We joke about them. We try to calmly see the issue from the other person's perspective. It doesn't always work, but I know fighting with DH doesn't make him responsive. Asking him to do things doesn't get him to do them. (I suspect he has a touch of ADHD). We have a system so he knows what things he needs to do the keep the household moving and we each play to our strengths. But we both had to move from fighting about inconsequential things, which is all MC did.

If you still want to try to save your marriage, try reading How to Improve Your Marriage without Talking about It. Some of it is hoke, but it may set your perspective differently. I saw two different divorce attorneys during all of this. You can come back from the brink. It's been 7-8 years since I quite marriage counseling.