Anonymous
03/15/2016 00:38
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good grief. And we wonder why America is falling behind in educational competitiveness?
We have a system whose primary goal is to make sure no one feels bad.
The goal would be to erase bias so all children who need gifted education receive it. That is not happening right now.
It's biased to recognize some kids just aren't as smart as others?
No. of course not. But it's bias to have a system that doesn't recognize all the gifted children it should because the tests are culturally biased and the teacher GBRS scores are subjective and make room for bias. An IQ test is one of the few equalizers but it costs too much for school districts to pay for for all its students and many families cannot afford it. They have done study after study about GT or AAP programs not capturing blacks, hispanics and poor whites. Then they take those same kids and test their IQs and wouldn't you know, they're gifted. Shocker! They put those kids in the programs and they thrive. But based on the usual tests and teacher recommendations they never would have been identified. Maybe read the NY Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Atlantic, The New Yorker or NPR sometime and enlighten yourself.
Why don't you actually read about gifted studies that aren't rooted in the victim status industry, and enlighten yourself. "Distribution theory" is a good start. Oh, and by the way, most victim advocates er diversity proponents claim that IQ tests are also biased.
And a student "thriving" -- what an overused, trite word -- is not proof positive that the child was indeed gifted. Have you honestly ever heard of a child NOT "thriving" in one? Please.
PP please don't entertain the racists. Just let her troll.
Anonymous
03/15/2016 00:36
Subject: Re:Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
I'm Mexican. I came to the US legally when I was 14. My ESL (we all speak English but we only speak Spanish at home) child did not get into the pool last year. NNAT and CogAT scores were in the teens. Not even close to 132. We parent referred. My husband and I are both attorneys. We're upper middle class, even if I do get confused for the help by white people on a regular basis. Good old Fairfax County. Anyway, had a WISC done. My daughter did very well. We submitted it in the parental referral. She got in on the first round, no thanks to the GBRS score. Pretty sure the teacher thought she was just some average non-impressive hispanic kid. Thank goodness we could afford the WISC. She also had good work samples and recommendations. She is thriving at the center. The AAP program would not have included my daughter without the WISC score. I'm sure there are many like her and some in here would say she is not cut out for AAP due to her NNAT and CogAT scores but her WISC said otherwise she was in the top 99.5%. Did she have a bad day, twice? Was the test culturally bias? Whatever the case, it did not see her as AAP material and now look at her. So I could care less how she gets there, if people think she belongs there. I care that she is there and doing well.
Anonymous
03/15/2016 00:33
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Do I have this correct?
Standardized testing. Biased.
Achievement testing or classroom performance. Inaccurate, particularly if someone happens to mention to someone that they're minority or woman before hand, therefore wounding an ego.
GBRS. Biased.
So, really, on what basis are we allowed to measure someone's intellectual capacity? All I hear is a bunch of excuses for performance that doesn't meet what should be objective criteria.
Standardized testing. Biased.
Achievement testing or classroom performance. Inaccurate, particularly if someone happens to mention to someone that they're minority or woman before hand, therefore wounding an ego.
GBRS. Biased.
So, really, on what basis are we allowed to measure someone's intellectual capacity? All I hear is a bunch of excuses for performance that doesn't meet what should be objective criteria.
Anonymous
03/15/2016 00:29
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good grief. And we wonder why America is falling behind in educational competitiveness?
We have a system whose primary goal is to make sure no one feels bad.
The goal would be to erase bias so all children who need gifted education receive it. That is not happening right now.
It's biased to recognize some kids just aren't as smart as others?
No. of course not. But it's bias to have a system that doesn't recognize all the gifted children it should because the tests are culturally biased and the teacher GBRS scores are subjective and make room for bias. An IQ test is one of the few equalizers but it costs too much for school districts to pay for for all its students and many families cannot afford it. They have done study after study about GT or AAP programs not capturing blacks, hispanics and poor whites. Then they take those same kids and test their IQs and wouldn't you know, they're gifted. Shocker! They put those kids in the programs and they thrive. But based on the usual tests and teacher recommendations they never would have been identified. Maybe read the NY Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Atlantic, The New Yorker or NPR sometime and enlighten yourself.
Why don't you actually read about gifted studies that aren't rooted in the victim status industry, and enlighten yourself. "Distribution theory" is a good start. Oh, and by the way, most victim advocates er diversity proponents claim that IQ tests are also biased.
And a student "thriving" -- what an overused, trite word -- is not proof positive that the child was indeed gifted. Have you honestly ever heard of a child NOT "thriving" in one? Please.
Anonymous
03/15/2016 00:23
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good grief. And we wonder why America is falling behind in educational competitiveness?
We have a system whose primary goal is to make sure no one feels bad.
The goal would be to erase bias so all children who need gifted education receive it. That is not happening right now.
It's biased to recognize some kids just aren't as smart as others?
No. of course not. But it's bias to have a system that doesn't recognize all the gifted children it should because the tests are culturally biased and the teacher GBRS scores are subjective and make room for bias. An IQ test is one of the few equalizers but it costs too much for school districts to pay for for all its students and many families cannot afford it. They have done study after study about GT or AAP programs not capturing blacks, hispanics and poor whites. Then they take those same kids and test their IQs and wouldn't you know, they're gifted. Shocker! They put those kids in the programs and they thrive. But based on the usual tests and teacher recommendations they never would have been identified. Maybe read the NY Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Atlantic, The New Yorker or NPR sometime and enlighten yourself.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 23:03
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good grief. And we wonder why America is falling behind in educational competitiveness?
We have a system whose primary goal is to make sure no one feels bad.
The goal would be to erase bias so all children who need gifted education receive it. That is not happening right now.
It's biased to recognize some kids just aren't as smart as others?
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:36
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Good grief. And we wonder why America is falling behind in educational competitiveness?
We have a system whose primary goal is to make sure no one feels bad.
The goal would be to erase bias so all children who need gifted education receive it. That is not happening right now.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:33
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Admittance into any advanced program whether aap or TJ, should be double blind. No name, no sex, no race. Just the numbers. I would be incredibly offended if I were given special treatment based on my race or cultural heritage. It's extremely insulting. Double blind truly is the only way to go.
It's more insulting to be gifted and not identified due to racial and cultural biases.
Are you white?
It is much more insulting to have standards that say the asians need 145 to qualify, the whites 132, the hispanics 121 & the AAs 112 for example.
If I were a gifted person from an under represented group, this type of admittance would be so offensive. If I were asian I would lawyer up becaue my gifted child who scored above 99% of the kids accepted was denied resources that they more than qualified for.
Does it do the black child any good to know they were admitted under different standards? No. Or say they had stellar credentials, the perception is always going to be he or she was only admitted because of race.
It would be affirmative action wrapped in a nice politically correct patina.
That's the perception anyway so who cares. It's not really about how they got in but that they're in. Affirmative action is legal and beneficial and primarily benefits white woman.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:31
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Admittance into any advanced program whether aap or TJ, should be double blind. No name, no sex, no race. Just the numbers. I would be incredibly offended if I were given special treatment based on my race or cultural heritage. It's extremely insulting. Double blind truly is the only way to go.
It's more insulting to be gifted and not identified due to racial and cultural biases.
Are you white?
It is much more insulting to have standards that say the asians need 145 to qualify, the whites 132, the hispanics 121 & the AAs 112 for example.
If I were a gifted person from an under represented group, this type of admittance would be so offensive. If I were asian I would lawyer up becaue my gifted child who scored above 99% of the kids accepted was denied resources that they more than qualified for.
Not PP, but no one cares what you would do.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:18
Subject: Re:Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
thats racist..... wake up America
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:14
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Good grief. And we wonder why America is falling behind in educational competitiveness?
We have a system whose primary goal is to make sure no one feels bad.
We have a system whose primary goal is to make sure no one feels bad.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:12
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Admittance into any advanced program whether aap or TJ, should be double blind. No name, no sex, no race. Just the numbers. I would be incredibly offended if I were given special treatment based on my race or cultural heritage. It's extremely insulting. Double blind truly is the only way to go.
It's more insulting to be gifted and not identified due to racial and cultural biases.
Are you white?
It is much more insulting to have standards that say the asians need 145 to qualify, the whites 132, the hispanics 121 & the AAs 112 for example.
If I were a gifted person from an under represented group, this type of admittance would be so offensive. If I were asian I would lawyer up becaue my gifted child who scored above 99% of the kids accepted was denied resources that they more than qualified for.
Does it do the black child any good to know they were admitted under different standards? No. Or say they had stellar credentials, the perception is always going to be he or she was only admitted because of race.
It would be affirmative action wrapped in a nice politically correct patina.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:11
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
I don't think they should accept any outside testing like the WISC. Not everyone can afford to pay for private testing so it creates an unfair advantage to affluent families.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:09
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is the difference between discrimination theory and distribution theory.
Both have advocates and merits, but to believe discrimination theory you have to believe all traits exists in equal frequency among all cultures, populations, races, etc.
Just take a look at the NBA.
There is also much to the self-fulfilling prophecy / halo effect is in play for Black athletes. For instance, if you remind an Asian student and a Black student of their race prior to an examination (through a demographic questionnaire, for example), the Asian kid will score higher and the Black kid will score lower than what they would have scored without the reminder. Likewise, if you remind an Asian Girl she's Asian prior to a math exam, she'll score higher; while if you remind her she's a girl, she'll score lower. All this to say, because society has stereotypes for different races of kids, they will lead to self-fulfilling feedback loops.
That's the Whisting Vivaldi theory, which basically gives someone convenient cover for suboptimal performances, and is not universally accepted.
Anonymous
03/14/2016 22:07
Subject: Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Admittance into any advanced program whether aap or TJ, should be double blind. No name, no sex, no race. Just the numbers. I would be incredibly offended if I were given special treatment based on my race or cultural heritage. It's extremely insulting. Double blind truly is the only way to go.
It's more insulting to be gifted and not identified due to racial and cultural biases.
Are you white?
It is much more insulting to have standards that say the asians need 145 to qualify, the whites 132, the hispanics 121 & the AAs 112 for example.
If I were a gifted person from an under represented group, this type of admittance would be so offensive. If I were asian I would lawyer up becaue my gifted child who scored above 99% of the kids accepted was denied resources that they more than qualified for.