Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:55     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:OP back again...

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you guys need to just take the pressure off right now and have affection and intimacy but not worry about intercourse.

I recommend you slowly try to be more physically affectionate in ways don't necessarily lead to sex. Kiss her randomly in the kitchen. Touch her arm or back more when you guys are talking. Cuddle her on the couch and put your arm around her but don't try to advance it.


So, this is exactly the strategy I've been pursuing. In fact, I've shifted my shows of affection to be exclusively those that she says she likes, and pretty much don't do the things I personally always preferred to do (the ways I've enjoyed touching a partner). That "no sex but cuddle/affection" is pretty much exactly where we are now, that has resulted in the situation. It's not working.


You've got a baby and a toddler. It's a tough time. Keep it going and give it time.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:54     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:What if you played a little harder to get? If she asks you why you're not initiating, calmly tell her you don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.


In his case since she already thinks he's cheating, that would probably backfire.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:51     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
What if you played a little harder to get? If she asks you why you're not initiating, calmly tell her you don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:46     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Meh. I'm realistic. I took vows and take mine seriously. They really encompass things happening TO THE COUPLE though- they're not carte Blanche for one spouse to drop all their marital responsibilities and then say "TOUGH, VOWS!" I'm not holding my husband to superhuman levels of patience and understanding under the guise of vows. If I unilaterally decide sex is done for long term purposes, I'm not going to be shocked if I find out he discreetly went and got some on the side. Forcing your spouse's hand that way and then crying victim is so annoying to me.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:43     Subject: Re:Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hey OP - Man here, was in a very similar situation. My wife was also very low libido, never wanted to have sex, but also got suspicious if I stopped trying to initiate. So I get it, completely, and I also get the fact that you would rather not attempt sex if that advance will be rejected or met with the starfish routine.

What helped was for me to focus on me and not on her. I made extra efforts to go to the gym. It helped burn off the stress and sexual frustration, but it also helped me feel better about myself to heal the sting of rejection. I also tried to keep somewhat busy in the evenings after the kids went to bed - either joining a sports league, or going to client events, etc. Nothing worse than sitting on the couch next to your wife when you could be having sex but she doesn't want to.

We also had a few of the conversations. Yes, the ones where I stated I was unhappy, and she stated she felt like a failure of a wife. I don't know that those conversations helped our sex life, but they helped air out our feelings and also set expectations. The one big difference between my wife and yours - my wife would offer to let me have sex with her, "but don't expect me to be into it." I eventually accepted this was her way of trying to meet me in the middle, and sometimes accepting her offer of a one-sided quickie helped both of us feel connected.

Also, and here I will join you in the fire - I had a couple of short term affairs. One almost blew up. If you succumb to the temptation, make sure you don't affair with someone who is likely to blow up your world. Because.....

It can and usually does get better. For us, it got better when the youngest hit school full time. Still not great but way way better, we have sex now on a normal frequency, she is into it, and she is her old, flirtatious, playful self again. Our marriage is going great.

TL;DR - hang in there, and do what you need to do to stay sane and be a good dad and husband. This too shall pass.

I'm glad your relationship with your wife is better, but you'd better hope to god she never finds out about your affairs. Or does she already know and has forgiven you? I understand people get frustrated in their marriages, but having an affair seems like the opposite of trying to fix it.


At a certain point, one partner can no longer fix it alone. If the other partner can't or won't, I suppose an affair to reduce tension and keep the family happy isn't the worst thing. You can't fix it alone.

I'm a wife and if I were telling my husband sex was off the table only excepting dire circumstances where I gave him a pity quickie, I think I would be reasonable enough to tell myself not to be surprised if he did end up having a no strings attached affair because of it. I'm not deluded. Go into it eyes wide open if that's how you really want to play marriage. But don't pretend to be blindsided when cutting off a spouse physically and emotionally doesn't work out well for you.

This guys wife is probably happy in her marriage now and none the wiser about what her husband did to get them there. Not too sorry for her.

I don't think expecting your spouse to be faithful even when things get tough is unreasonable. Does the vow say "forsaking all others except when you won't put out"? I'm not saying it's ok that the other spouse isn't trying to fix. I'm just saying that just because you are having issues, it doesn't give the other spouse the right to cheat.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:38     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:Can you guys talk about it laying all your cards on the table - or is it something she will get very upset about?


Probably. She will get very upset, but we can talk. We've actually talked a couple of times. She has been very upset, and I've explained that I don't really feel desired, but that it's more that she fears that if she doesn't give me duty sex, I'll go looking elsewhere. I've explained that I don't really want duty sex.

Anonymous wrote:And no, OP, that is not what having children does to a marriage.


My comment was a pre-emptive 'response' to the chorus who would read this (and many have!) as me wanting and not getting sex, and then telling me to "just deal". I've read quite a few threads here on this topic, and I know that for many people having a baby isn't a sex-life killer. I also know that's the stock response from a majority; I wouldn't have posted except that I don't think I can recall a similar permutation of this problem.

Anonymous wrote:In fact, I was chafing at the 6 week no sex prohibition and giving to/getting from DH various other forms of sexual gratification a couple of weeks after the births.


My libido/desire would be substantially higher if my wife would do something as simple as giving me a handjob - even just to get us started.

Anonymous wrote:Your wife is clearly insecure about her body though and your feelings about it bear her insecurity out, that's the real problem. This is where I recommend lying. Yes, telling her that you find her attractive, desirable blah blah blah until it helps her with her insecurity and turns her into a sex-initiating person (which you indicated you'd like even with the extra weight). Unless she's the kind of woman who never initiated even before, in which case...therapy for her? Maybe? Because what you have right now is not an acceptable status quo nor a happy marriage.


So, this kind of gets to the nub of it. DW did initiate once...back when we first were dating. In fact, I wasn't even ready to jump to sex (3rd date) and was thinking to take things slowly. Now she does nothing at all. But she has expressed a couple of times how upset she is that I'm not initiating.

I absolutely lie in this case, and I don't feel even slightly bad about it. I know she is very sensitive about her weight and saying something would really only be hitting her where I know she has a weak spot. I just cannot imagine being hurtful that way. And if she were even sexually responsive person - never mind initiating - I'd be much happier. I just feel like I'm living in a world of circular reasoning with an impossible task...and I've reacted so far by not playing: just waiting it out, but now the frequency of comments about cheating and lack of sex is steadily increasing. It's leaking into trying to have conversations about making simple plans for what to do on a Saturday.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:33     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
How did things go after the older one was born?

Wife here, and we have 3 kids. Youngest is the same age as your youngest. I haven't gained quite as much weight, but things are definitely uncomfortable right now. For me, I know that around a year post-partum, when I begin weaning, things get much more comfortable and my desire goes back up. We've struggled with it in the past, but this time around I think we're both comfortable because we know it's a blip. DH knows that this isn't permanent and that in some ways we'll both be much happier riding this out at as a dry spot than trying to push ahead while i'm not feeling it.

If that's the case at all with your wife, maybe remind her that you got through it the first time, and you know things will be better again soon.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:32     Subject: Re:Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hey OP - Man here, was in a very similar situation. My wife was also very low libido, never wanted to have sex, but also got suspicious if I stopped trying to initiate. So I get it, completely, and I also get the fact that you would rather not attempt sex if that advance will be rejected or met with the starfish routine.

What helped was for me to focus on me and not on her. I made extra efforts to go to the gym. It helped burn off the stress and sexual frustration, but it also helped me feel better about myself to heal the sting of rejection. I also tried to keep somewhat busy in the evenings after the kids went to bed - either joining a sports league, or going to client events, etc. Nothing worse than sitting on the couch next to your wife when you could be having sex but she doesn't want to.

We also had a few of the conversations. Yes, the ones where I stated I was unhappy, and she stated she felt like a failure of a wife. I don't know that those conversations helped our sex life, but they helped air out our feelings and also set expectations. The one big difference between my wife and yours - my wife would offer to let me have sex with her, "but don't expect me to be into it." I eventually accepted this was her way of trying to meet me in the middle, and sometimes accepting her offer of a one-sided quickie helped both of us feel connected.

Also, and here I will join you in the fire - I had a couple of short term affairs. One almost blew up. If you succumb to the temptation, make sure you don't affair with someone who is likely to blow up your world. Because.....

It can and usually does get better. For us, it got better when the youngest hit school full time. Still not great but way way better, we have sex now on a normal frequency, she is into it, and she is her old, flirtatious, playful self again. Our marriage is going great.

TL;DR - hang in there, and do what you need to do to stay sane and be a good dad and husband. This too shall pass.

I'm glad your relationship with your wife is better, but you'd better hope to god she never finds out about your affairs. Or does she already know and has forgiven you? I understand people get frustrated in their marriages, but having an affair seems like the opposite of trying to fix it.


At a certain point, one partner can no longer fix it alone. If the other partner can't or won't, I suppose an affair to reduce tension and keep the family happy isn't the worst thing. You can't fix it alone.

I'm a wife and if I were telling my husband sex was off the table only excepting dire circumstances where I gave him a pity quickie, I think I would be reasonable enough to tell myself not to be surprised if he did end up having a no strings attached affair because of it. I'm not deluded. Go into it eyes wide open if that's how you really want to play marriage. But don't pretend to be blindsided when cutting off a spouse physically and emotionally doesn't work out well for you.

This guys wife is probably happy in her marriage now and none the wiser about what her husband did to get them there. Not too sorry for her.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:25     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
The bottom line is that you cannot fix this problem on your own. You both have to want it, and you both have to take the steps, jointly, to fix that. Whether it means counseling, losing weight, whatever.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:24     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
I think you should make her feel beautiful. Compliment her often and sincerely. Does she have beautiful eyes, does she make you laugh, does she look sexy in that dress, do you love the feel of her head on your shoulder.

We did a thing a couple of years ago where we each wrote a love letter to the other every day for a week. You have to really think about what you value about this person to have enough for 7 letters! It was a great exercise, both the writing and the receiving of the letters because it brought us back into touch with what brought us together in the first place.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:24     Subject: Re:Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:Hey OP - Man here, was in a very similar situation. My wife was also very low libido, never wanted to have sex, but also got suspicious if I stopped trying to initiate. So I get it, completely, and I also get the fact that you would rather not attempt sex if that advance will be rejected or met with the starfish routine.

What helped was for me to focus on me and not on her. I made extra efforts to go to the gym. It helped burn off the stress and sexual frustration, but it also helped me feel better about myself to heal the sting of rejection. I also tried to keep somewhat busy in the evenings after the kids went to bed - either joining a sports league, or going to client events, etc. Nothing worse than sitting on the couch next to your wife when you could be having sex but she doesn't want to.

We also had a few of the conversations. Yes, the ones where I stated I was unhappy, and she stated she felt like a failure of a wife. I don't know that those conversations helped our sex life, but they helped air out our feelings and also set expectations. The one big difference between my wife and yours - my wife would offer to let me have sex with her, "but don't expect me to be into it." I eventually accepted this was her way of trying to meet me in the middle, and sometimes accepting her offer of a one-sided quickie helped both of us feel connected.

Also, and here I will join you in the fire - I had a couple of short term affairs. One almost blew up. If you succumb to the temptation, make sure you don't affair with someone who is likely to blow up your world. Because.....

It can and usually does get better. For us, it got better when the youngest hit school full time. Still not great but way way better, we have sex now on a normal frequency, she is into it, and she is her old, flirtatious, playful self again. Our marriage is going great.

TL;DR - hang in there, and do what you need to do to stay sane and be a good dad and husband. This too shall pass.

I'm glad your relationship with your wife is better, but you'd better hope to god she never finds out about your affairs. Or does she already know and has forgiven you? I understand people get frustrated in their marriages, but having an affair seems like the opposite of trying to fix it.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:24     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:OP back again...

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you guys need to just take the pressure off right now and have affection and intimacy but not worry about intercourse.

I recommend you slowly try to be more physically affectionate in ways don't necessarily lead to sex. Kiss her randomly in the kitchen. Touch her arm or back more when you guys are talking. Cuddle her on the couch and put your arm around her but don't try to advance it.


So, this is exactly the strategy I've been pursuing. In fact, I've shifted my shows of affection to be exclusively those that she says she likes, and pretty much don't do the things I personally always preferred to do (the ways I've enjoyed touching a partner). That "no sex but cuddle/affection" is pretty much exactly where we are now, that has resulted in the situation. It's not working.


My wife got upset when I turned down duty sex. I think it was her way of feeling like she was trying to be a good wife (and she was worried I would cheat if I wasn't satisfied at home). Can you bring yourself to have duty sex for both of your needs? Use it or lose it? Don't try to make it about her, just have a quickie - she will feel better, you will feel better and you can build a foundation for later.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:22     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Can you guys talk about it laying all your cards on the table - or is it something she will get very upset about?

And no, OP, that is not what having children does to a marriage. We have two small children and have sex minimum 3x a week. In fact, I was chafing at the 6 week no sex prohibition and giving to/getting from DH various other forms of sexual gratification a couple of weeks after the births. What is different, however, is that you have to be more determined to fit it into a much busier schedule, so if it's something that's not a priority (whether because you naturally have a high drive or choose to make it a priority for a happier marriage), it falls by the wayside.

As to appearance - that's trickier. Neither DH nor I are as slim or good-looking as we were when we were younger. But we still find each other attractive. Honestly, I will always find DH attractive because I love him, and the way he treats me (including in bed) makes me want him no matter what he looks like. But the real problem in your case is not appearance, it's her reaction to it and your reaction to it.

Your wife is clearly insecure about her body though and your feelings about it bear her insecurity out, that's the real problem. This is where I recommend lying. Yes, telling her that you find her attractive, desirable blah blah blah until it helps her with her insecurity and turns her into a sex-initiating person (which you indicated you'd like even with the extra weight). Unless she's the kind of woman who never initiated even before, in which case...therapy for her? Maybe? Because what you have right now is not an acceptable status quo nor a happy marriage.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:11     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
OP back again...

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you guys need to just take the pressure off right now and have affection and intimacy but not worry about intercourse.

I recommend you slowly try to be more physically affectionate in ways don't necessarily lead to sex. Kiss her randomly in the kitchen. Touch her arm or back more when you guys are talking. Cuddle her on the couch and put your arm around her but don't try to advance it.


So, this is exactly the strategy I've been pursuing. In fact, I've shifted my shows of affection to be exclusively those that she says she likes, and pretty much don't do the things I personally always preferred to do (the ways I've enjoyed touching a partner). That "no sex but cuddle/affection" is pretty much exactly where we are now, that has resulted in the situation. It's not working.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 13:01     Subject: Lack of Sex starting to cause issues/fights
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your problem is she doesn't seem to want sex, but gets upset that you're not having it, right?


OP here:

EXACTLY


Have you told her this in these exact words, or are you worried about what happens if you do?


I have not; that might be a place to start. I am not afraid to tell her that part, but I am very leery of telling her that I'm not physically attracted. I honestly think she knows that already and that is already the part of the "painted ourselves into a corner" feed-back loop.


Instead of saying you're not physically attracted to her, can you say her behavior isn't attractive? And try some lube for the pain.


I wouldn't say anything about her isn't attractive. I think we can assume she knows 50 extra pounds and crying during sex isn't exactly hot. I would talk to her about how it affects you emotionally - just like, "look I don't know what to do here - can we get on the same page and try to figure some stuff out?"


I really have to second this. Saying you don't find an attribute about your spouse attractive, when you know they are already struggling with feeling attractive, is a recipe for disaster. It's also likely to be something she won't be able to forget once you've said it, it's going to be stuck on repeat in her head.