Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:27     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's certainly not just a "slave thing." Plenty of parents do this, but it's more concentrated in the South.

I'd let him take the lead on this, because with biracial (black) kids, he knows better than you how to raise them to be respectful in society.


Massive inner eyeroll. In moments like this I pray comments like this are from trolls. I don't even know what this means.- Black blood is innately more respectful? Black blood only learns from black blood? Craziness.

I'm a northerner and I agree it's a little 'perpetuating oppression' for me to address parents in this way (slave master, etc).

It's fine for addressing others but in a family unit, we have no need for our multiracial kids to call us sir or ma'am.


You completely missed the point. OP has biracial kids, and when the world looks at them they will see black kids. They will not benefit from her privilege in this regard. The black parent has a better understanding of how these children will need to be constantly conscious of the image they are portraying. They will have to constantly be better behaved, more polite, and more respectful than the white kids, just to attempt to avoid the stereotypes and prejudice that will come their way.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:26     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
I'm AA, grew up in DC, and was taught to say yes sir or ma'am. I went to private schools here and a lot of my (white) classmates didn't speak this way. I learned to say it at my home and with adults I didn't know and to adjust my speech when in my friends homes. I've spent my life learning when and how to adjust my speech, but that's neither here nor there.

I wouldn't fight this OP, your kids will learn when to use it and when not to. And I don't think I ever ran across an adult who was offended at being shown the respect of being addressed as sir or ma'am, even if they didn't expect it. I think it's pretty harmless.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:25     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't like it because I think all humans are equal, regardless of age. All people are deserving of courtesy, again, regardless of age. And using honorifics for only certain people in a social setting sets the tone that we are not all equals. You can be courteous and caring without titles. But would I fall on this sword in an argument with my husand? Probably not. I'd discuss my beliefs about it with the kids as they got older. At some point, They will decide how they want to address others anyway.


Oh wow, I don't even know where to begin. Do you seriously not believe it is good for children to respect authority? Surely kids cannot be given authority over adults so how exactly do you define equality? Of course children deserve respect but that doesn't mean that they are on an equal playing field with adults. In fact, I make it a point to tell my kids they are not equal with adults. It doesn't mean they should be treated more poorly, it means that they do not have the authority to say and act however they want. So whether it's me, their teacher, their friend's parent, their babysitter, they need to respect that authority.

I recently moved to the South from DC and have heard a few kids say 'sir' and 'ma'am.' It's actually surprisingly really nice to hear. It just sounds like someone who has been raised with a lot of class and manners. We have so much of the opposite nowadays with parents treating their kids like friends (or 'equals'), and kids treating adults with zero respect. I say if it reinforces respect and courtesy, why not?


I want my child to be courteous to all people, Not just those older than they are.

It's not a failure to teach manners. It's just a different approach to manners. It's not a free pass to act inappropriately. It's teaching appropriate behavior within the context that all humans are worthy of kindness and consideration, my child included. From the infant to the elderly. The disabled to the powerful.




I think the "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" teachings are more cultural/locational than some other forms of manners in the US, so I understand why some/most here in DC wouldn't teach it. Do you teach your children to call their teachers, and the elderly, Mr., Ms., or Miss, or do you teach them to call their teachers by their first (or last) name only?
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:23     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't like it because I think all humans are equal, regardless of age. All people are deserving of courtesy, again, regardless of age. And using honorifics for only certain people in a social setting sets the tone that we are not all equals. You can be courteous and caring without titles. But would I fall on this sword in an argument with my husand? Probably not. I'd discuss my beliefs about it with the kids as they got older. At some point, They will decide how they want to address others anyway.


Oh wow, I don't even know where to begin. Do you seriously not believe it is good for children to respect authority? Surely kids cannot be given authority over adults so how exactly do you define equality? Of course children deserve respect but that doesn't mean that they are on an equal playing field with adults. In fact, I make it a point to tell my kids they are not equal with adults. It doesn't mean they should be treated more poorly, it means that they do not have the authority to say and act however they want. So whether it's me, their teacher, their friend's parent, their babysitter, they need to respect that authority.

I recently moved to the South from DC and have heard a few kids say 'sir' and 'ma'am.' It's actually surprisingly really nice to hear. It just sounds like someone who has been raised with a lot of class and manners. We have so much of the opposite nowadays with parents treating their kids like friends (or 'equals'), and kids treating adults with zero respect. I say if it reinforces respect and courtesy, why not?


I want my child to be courteous to all people, Not just those older than they are.

It's not a failure to teach manners. It's just a different approach to manners. It's not a free pass to act inappropriately. It's teaching appropriate behavior within the context that all humans are worthy of kindness and consideration, my child included. From the infant to the elderly. The disabled to the powerful.


Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:20     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's certainly not just a "slave thing." Plenty of parents do this, but it's more concentrated in the South.

I'd let him take the lead on this, because with biracial (black) kids, he knows better than you how to raise them to be respectful in society.


Massive inner eyeroll. In moments like this I pray comments like this are from trolls. I don't even know what this means.- Black blood is innately more respectful? Black blood only learns from black blood? Craziness.

I'm a northerner and I agree it's a little 'perpetuating oppression' for me to address parents in this way (slave master, etc).

It's fine for addressing others but in a family unit, we have no need for our multiracial kids to call us sir or ma'am.


Another inner eyeroll. I grew up in the South, and it's respectful, that's all, not oppressive.


Serious question. Did white kids say it to black adults? Especially in the 60s and 70s? What about now?


As a white child in the 50s and 60s, I was taught to call everyone by Mr. or Mrs. whatever their race. The black men who worked with my grandfather were Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith. The black women who worked with my mother with Mrs. Jones and Mrs. Smith. Their black children called my parent Mrs. Doe and Mr. Doe. I think it is more a generational thing than a racial thing.

Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:20     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Husband grew up very old fashioned. He is African American. I grew up in a very laid back household. I am white. Husband wants children to say, "yes sir" and "yes mam." I find it very odd and weird because it's very slave like lingo to me. As if you are saying "yes sir, master." Your take?


Geeze, if teaching children to be polite and respectful is 'slave like lingo, we're really hitting bottom.


As the white member of a biracial couple, I suspect the OP is much more empathetic than others.


OP called it "slave-like". That's not empathetic.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:17     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Husband grew up very old fashioned. He is African American. I grew up in a very laid back household. I am white. Husband wants children to say, "yes sir" and "yes mam." I find it very odd and weird because it's very slave like lingo to me. As if you are saying "yes sir, master." Your take?


Geeze, if teaching children to be polite and respectful is 'slave like lingo, we're really hitting bottom.


As the white member of a biracial couple, I suspect the OP is much more empathetic than others.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:15     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Ick. I grew up in a military family that tried to force this on me and it's gross. There is already a clear authority between parent and child, you do not need to add to it.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:15     Subject: Re:Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:We're from DC and I say "yes, sir" and "yes, ma'am," all the time when dealing with strangers. Never even really notice it. My kids only say it at tae kwon do.


My kid says it at Tae Kwon Do too, its a sign of respect.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:04     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:

Oh wow, I don't even know where to begin. Do you seriously not believe it is good for children to respect authority? Surely kids cannot be given authority over adults so how exactly do you define equality? Of course children deserve respect but that doesn't mean that they are on an equal playing field with adults. In fact, I make it a point to tell my kids they are not equal with adults. It doesn't mean they should be treated more poorly, it means that they do not have the authority to say and act however they want. So whether it's me, their teacher, their friend's parent, their babysitter, they need to respect that authority.

I recently moved to the South from DC and have heard a few kids say 'sir' and 'ma'am.' It's actually surprisingly really nice to hear. It just sounds like someone who has been raised with a lot of class and manners. We have so much of the opposite nowadays with parents treating their kids like friends (or 'equals'), and kids treating adults with zero respect. I say if it reinforces respect and courtesy, why not?


But it doesn't reinforce courtesy in this area, where people don't do it and don't want to get sirred/ma'amed. It's not courteous to call somebody something they don't want to be called.

And actually I don't think it does reinforce respect, anyway. When you call somebody sir or ma'am, does that cause you to feel more respect for them?
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 14:00     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:I don't like it because I think all humans are equal, regardless of age. All people are deserving of courtesy, again, regardless of age. And using honorifics for only certain people in a social setting sets the tone that we are not all equals. You can be courteous and caring without titles. But would I fall on this sword in an argument with my husand? Probably not. I'd discuss my beliefs about it with the kids as they got older. At some point, They will decide how they want to address others anyway.


Oh wow, I don't even know where to begin. Do you seriously not believe it is good for children to respect authority? Surely kids cannot be given authority over adults so how exactly do you define equality? Of course children deserve respect but that doesn't mean that they are on an equal playing field with adults. In fact, I make it a point to tell my kids they are not equal with adults. It doesn't mean they should be treated more poorly, it means that they do not have the authority to say and act however they want. So whether it's me, their teacher, their friend's parent, their babysitter, they need to respect that authority.

I recently moved to the South from DC and have heard a few kids say 'sir' and 'ma'am.' It's actually surprisingly really nice to hear. It just sounds like someone who has been raised with a lot of class and manners. We have so much of the opposite nowadays with parents treating their kids like friends (or 'equals'), and kids treating adults with zero respect. I say if it reinforces respect and courtesy, why not?
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 13:52     Subject: Re:Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
We're from DC and I say "yes, sir" and "yes, ma'am," all the time when dealing with strangers. Never even really notice it. My kids only say it at tae kwon do.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 13:48     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:Husband grew up very old fashioned. He is African American. I grew up in a very laid back household. I am white. Husband wants children to say, "yes sir" and "yes mam." I find it very odd and weird because it's very slave like lingo to me. As if you are saying "yes sir, master." Your take?


Um, no. We don't do this. It's so odd and overly formal. I see it as part of the "children should be seen and not heard" mindset. We don't abide that either. All people are deserving of respect and courtesy, kids and adult. I see no reason to give special respect to adults.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 13:47     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't like it because I think all humans are equal, regardless of age. All people are deserving of courtesy, again, regardless of age. And using honorifics for only certain people in a social setting sets the tone that we are not all equals. You can be courteous and caring without titles. But would I fall on this sword in an argument with my husand? Probably not. I'd discuss my beliefs about it with the kids as they got older. At some point, They will decide how they want to address others anyway.


You see no value in wisdom, maturity, and experience? You see no value in using words of respect towards certain people, including having children calling their teachers Mr. or Ms., or Miss, and prefer that they just use first (or last) names only?


All humans have inherent dignity and worth. No need to stratify them socially by something as arbitrary as age.

You can be courteous to someone without calling them sir.


+1

I don't put anyone above - or beneath - me. Including children.

You can be polite without antiquated formalities.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2016 13:45     Subject: Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's certainly not just a "slave thing." Plenty of parents do this, but it's more concentrated in the South.

I'd let him take the lead on this, because with biracial (black) kids, he knows better than you how to raise them to be respectful in society.


Massive inner eyeroll. In moments like this I pray comments like this are from trolls. I don't even know what this means.- Black blood is innately more respectful? Black blood only learns from black blood? Craziness.

I'm a northerner and I agree it's a little 'perpetuating oppression' for me to address parents in this way (slave master, etc).

It's fine for addressing others but in a family unit, we have no need for our multiracial kids to call us sir or ma'am.


Another inner eyeroll. I grew up in the South, and it's respectful, that's all, not oppressive.


Serious question. Did white kids say it to black adults? Especially in the 60s and 70s? What about now?


Now, do white kids say it to white and black adults? To teachers or parents? Yes, but probably not to random strangers. In the 60s and 70s, I wasn't alive then so I couldn't tell you.


PP here. My white niece says it to everyone older than her, regardless of race or familiarity. As she's 8, that's almost everyone.