thanks for the book recommendation. yep, I'm totally taking my shiny new knowledge and trying to fix the narcissist right now. need to let that go somehow.....

Anonymous wrote:15:19 here.

to 23:29, I would agree that having a primary caregiver (regardless of the sex, just whoever has that responsibility, which I agree largely has fallen on mothers in the past) is extra awful

to 10:35, you are so spot on. I'm comforted with my delusions of control, which has allowed me to cope with my own mistreatment (because if I have control, I could do something different in the future to prevent the mistreatment, I just need to figure out how to get the abuser to stop). I can't quite accept that I can't fix my mom's narcissism. It's so so so hard to accept.

It is hard to accept. Have you ever read The Narcissistic Family? That was such a revelation to me. One of the findings in the book is that the first thing children of the N family do, is take their new knowledge back to the family and try to fix it, using new knowledge. You do it. I did it. It is natural. Take it from me, it does not work, but it is natural to take that new knowledge and try to fight smart to fix the problem we have for many years been devoted to fixing.

But you cannot interfer with other people's free will. My N Dad never changed. He was incapable of it. I moved mountains, but that was all beside the point. Save yourself. You are meant to live your own life, not sacrifice your life for the N.

15:19 here.

to 23:29, I would agree that having a primary caregiver (regardless of the sex, just whoever has that responsibility, which I agree largely has fallen on mothers in the past) is extra awful

to 10:35, you are so spot on. I'm comforted with my delusions of control, which has allowed me to cope with my own mistreatment (because if I have control, I could do something different in the future to prevent the mistreatment, I just need to figure out how to get the abuser to stop). I can't quite accept that I can't fix my mom's narcissism. It's so so so hard to accept.

Oh, and I'm 10:35. I want to add that my FIL (also!) seems to have NPD, but it's true he has mellowed somewhat in recent years. He's also had several minor strokes. And is still not a fabulous person. So I think there are very rare occasions a N can change, but frankly, as previously stated, it's going to be mild to moderate change, precipitated by a catastrophic event AND AND AND this cannot be emphasized enough-- THEY ARE NOT CHANGED BY ANYTHING THAT *YOU* DO. So while it maybe sorta possibly can kinda happen... it's something you have no more control over than the weather, so NOT worth hoping for.

Hugs, OP. It's finally becoming clear to DH and me that my MIL is NPD, as is his older brother (to whom he had been close).

If I may... I think-- and this is not a knock-- sometimes our "hope" for change is actually a fear we don't/can't have any control over this. That is, I can say personally that one of the reasons I generally (not just WRT narcissists) blame myself for things, try to find my own fault in a disagreement, etc., so that I can change and improve-- is because, on some level, I believe I have a LOT more control over the universe than I actually do. That's not the worst quality in the world to have-- at least it leads me to try and change and improve. But it's not realistic, either. And it can and does cause me psychic harm.

Once I realized that they had NPD, I actually found myself really hating/being dismissive of my DH's N relatives in a way that scared me... Because I'm never that way-- I hold out hope for everyone. But I realize part of it was how I hated how powerless the idea of NPD made me feel-- I get on an intellectual level how the fact they cannot be cured "should be" freeing to me... but it just feels like a crappy reminder that I can't do anything about it, which I'm still coming to terms with.

21:57 I've got to hand it to you--- you're a far more patient and forgiving person than I am.

I can't stand to be in the same room with my narcissist mother. She's got a lot of relationship traits in common with your dad, but she is very high functioning career-wise.

When she gets going -- which is never more than two seconds into any interaction--- I have to flee or explode.

How can you stand it? This might sound sexist but I wonder if people who have a narcissistic mother are more damaged because the mother is generally the primary caregiver.

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder rarely ever change because they don't think there's anything wrong with them -- it's everyone else who needs fixing in their minds.

Once in a while a narcissist will suffer a truly crushing blow that serves as a "wake up call." They lose a job, an important relationship or their health and this serves to get them to go to therapy and get help. This is really an exception, and even then it takes years of therapy for someone with this personality disorder to change at all, and they'll probably never fully change.

I'm sorry your sister is like this, OP. It sucks.

It's an exception. My dad had multiple job losses (got fired), drastic loss of income, lots of stuff thrown at him but he didn't change. He "says" he is responsible for some things/bad outcomes/bad relationship with my mom (I think he takes responsibility for 5%) but in his mind he thinks it's always other's faults 99.99999%. It's amazing to see how self centered he is and how he has such a victim mentality. I've tried all I can to improve my parents relationship and get him to see he's not a victim. He thinks he suffers so much in life because my mom doesn't talk as nicely, politely, in a PC way, as much as *he* would like. He wants to be worshipped, coddled like a toddler. He goes around saying he's a victim of language abuse by my mom. It's shocking how he perceives things. People are always wronging him. Everything is about him him him. All the time. So tiring. I keep the facade that I like and respect him, because I'm one of the few people (probably one of the two) he thinks are nice to him/love him unconditionally. He's already living an almost isolated life due to his personality. So I accomodate him. I pretend he's a 3 year old like my child and cater to him. But I have my limits. It's so hard.

My dad is one. He hasn't changed in 40 years.