Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.

Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

No, you're actually a Christian celebrating a pagan Winter Solstice holiday. The church moved the holiday after several centuries, sometime after the 3rd century, to December in order to attract pagans to the religion. Most scholars believe Christ's actual birth to be somewhere from March to May, e.g. closer to Easter than to the current Christmas. But with many pagans especially drawn to the various celebrations of the solstices and equinoxes, e.g. seasonal events and the Church moved Christmas and the celebration of Christ's birth to compete with the Winter Solstice, while moving Easter or the celebration of Christ's rebirth to compete with the Vernal Equinox celebrations. In fact, before the move, many Christians did not celebrate the birth of Christ.

Does anyone think the cross is not Christian? It was once a pagan symbol also. Still, now it's clearly Christian. Right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.

Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

That's hilarious. I have never, ever heard anyone call it their "Jesus tree". It's a Christmas tree, and its origins trace to the solstice and pagan rituals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

She didn't say that and you are being a jerk.

It is a secular American tradition, right up there with tailgate parties and halloween trick or treating.

Quit being so sensitive and try enjoying yourself a little.

It is a Christian tradition. I am an American and it is not my tradition.

The Christmas tree is absolutely NOT a Christian tradition. It's a pagan tradition in celebration of the Winter Solstice. It was coopted by the Christian church when they were trying to assert Christinity over pagan holidays. The Christians MOVED the celebration of Christ's birth to December to near the Winter Solstice and coopted a number of pagan traditions including an evergreen tree (a symbol of eternal life and health because it doesn't wither in the winter) and the giving of gifts because these were some of the popular symbols and customs of the pagan traditions.

And saying that a holiday tree or solstice tree is American does not imply at all that someone who does not have one is not American or un-American. People who don't like baseball, Apple Pie or fireworks are still American despite those being some of the biggest American traditions. Inclusiveness is not the same as exclusivity.

OP can choose to have a soltice tree or not. But the tree is not a Christian symbol or tradition. The navitity, the crucifix, attending Christmas services, carolling, the Christmas star are all symbols of Christianity. The tree, Santa Claus, giving of gifts (another pagan tradition coopted in the 19th and 20th centuries and tied to the giving of gifts by the Magi), holly, poinsettas, mistletoe, ornaments, reindeer, elves, snowmen are all definitely not Christian in origin but have become American seasonal traditions.

It IS a Christian tradition. Because the Christians coopted it. Yes, it was started by the pagans but the Christians took it and made it theirs. I am a nonchristian (atheist) who celebrates it in a cultural way, but please stop with saying the tree is not Christian. It used to not be Christian, but now it is.

I'm an atheist who celebrates Christmas. Weird I know but I think Jesus was a great man and I'm okay with celebrating his birthday.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

She didn't say that and you are being a jerk.

It is a secular American tradition, right up there with tailgate parties and halloween trick or treating.

Quit being so sensitive and try enjoying yourself a little.

Actually, it's not. It's a Christmas tradition that has, due to the Christian religious/cultural majority in the United States, become extremely common and normalized. I'm neither offended or threatened by Christmas trees, but it does get a bit tiresome to keep being told that, as an American, they are part of my cultural heritage. They are not.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

She didn't say that and you are being a jerk.

It is a secular American tradition, right up there with tailgate parties and halloween trick or treating.

Quit being so sensitive and try enjoying yourself a little.

It is a Christian tradition. I am an American and it is not my tradition.

The Christmas tree is absolutely NOT a Christian tradition. It's a pagan tradition in celebration of the Winter Solstice. It was coopted by the Christian church when they were trying to assert Christinity over pagan holidays. The Christians MOVED the celebration of Christ's birth to December to near the Winter Solstice and coopted a number of pagan traditions including an evergreen tree (a symbol of eternal life and health because it doesn't wither in the winter) and the giving of gifts because these were some of the popular symbols and customs of the pagan traditions.

And saying that a holiday tree or solstice tree is American does not imply at all that someone who does not have one is not American or un-American. People who don't like baseball, Apple Pie or fireworks are still American despite those being some of the biggest American traditions. Inclusiveness is not the same as exclusivity.

OP can choose to have a soltice tree or not. But the tree is not a Christian symbol or tradition. The navitity, the crucifix, attending Christmas services, carolling, the Christmas star are all symbols of Christianity. The tree, Santa Claus, giving of gifts (another pagan tradition coopted in the 19th and 20th centuries and tied to the giving of gifts by the Magi), holly, poinsettas, mistletoe, ornaments, reindeer, elves, snowmen are all definitely not Christian in origin but have become American seasonal traditions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.

Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was not born on the 25th.

They also didn't have pine trees there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Christians, but my kids have been asking about some of the other holidays like Hanukkah and Kwaanza. In an effort to nurture their curiosity and respect for all religions, we have put a Menorah up in our home and some Kwanzaa decorations. Perhaps this is the approach you could take?

OP here. That is very nice! We actually do already celebrate Passover, Rosh Hashanah, and Hanukkah with our best friends here who are Jewish, but I like the idea of Kwanzaa decorations....thanks.

I don't know. I like the idea of participating in genuine celebrations with people who have other traditions, but decorating your own house with symbols from holidays that are not meaningful to you seems really strange.

Do what feels right to you.

We are a Jewish family, but many years ago I bought a string of white lights on sale after xmas and started putting them up for new years. Soon after my very religious Jewish sister started sending me glowing things for Hanukah (the festival of lights) Now we put up a few lights inside the house to celebrate Hanukah. It cheers us all up. Still no tree. But we drive around and look at lit up houses and watch tv shows about xmas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.

Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was not born on the 25th.

And he wasn't crucified and risen right as the buds were coming out on the trees in Europe (fancy that). But Easter is a still a Christian holiday.

The Christmas tree is not a traditional Christian symbol, and I think if it makes OP's kids happy and feel included to have one, she should, without worrying that she is appropriating another religion. The tree can just be a pretty tree. But Christmas is, for many of us, a deeply Christian and religious celebration - the birth of light into a very dark world.

I'd say if the devout Pakistani Muslims Syed Farook and Tafsheen Malik were able to take time out of their busy target shooting practice to hang multiple snowflakes with jingle bells from their eaves and put a wreath on their door we can pretty well conclude that in America today there is no relationship between these holiday decorations or a tree to Christianity for many, many people.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks for the suggestions. I also had a Xmas tree growing up (as did my spouse), because our parents did the Xmas tree as part of adopting some aspects of American culture. I remember liking it, but it always felt in some way not enough....like we were faking it. Even as a child I realized I was doing a small part of the Christmas experience, and it made me feel....left out.

Things are different now than when I grew up - there's no need to adopt others' traditions where we live - there are a lot of Indians in my town. My kids are WAAAY more in touch with their Indian heritage than I was growing up, and that is in large part due the changes in demographics, but also what the population has chose to emphasize - religion, language, arts, etc. At any rate, my husband and I really want our kids to be able to turn to the tenets of our faith for guidance through their lives. And we think a big part of that is knowing who we aren't, and who we aren't. And we aren't Christian.

We put lights up outside our house for Diwali and leave them on until Jan 2, so we do have lights during Xmas too. I just think its going to be a slippery slope if I get them a tree. Then it will be presents next (when most Hindu holidays are NOT about gift-giving) and Santa, etc. etc. Where does it end? But I also don't want them to feel sad or left out.

I'm the PP who asked what you wanted, and I think you put it very clearly. Aside from the fact we did not have a tree growing up, your feelings on the matter are very similar to ours as Jews. Christmas is a lovely holiday, but its not our holiday, and my kids are not lacking anything by not celebrating it. So, to get back to your question, I treated this the same way we treated the kids getting upset that they weren't getting presents at someone else's birthday party. We just let them know that Christmas isn't our celebration, but, there are wonderful parts we can share with our Christian/Christmas celebrating friends. Then, we go back to focusing on what our culture is, instead of what it isn't/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.

Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Who has a better idea of what I am celebrating, me or you? I am celebrating the holiday called Christmas. It's an opportunity to spend time with the family, with activities, trips, gifts, etc. That's what I am celebrating. You may think I am missing the point by celebrating Christmas without any belief that Jesus was real, but I don't need Jesus to be real to enjoy Christmas. Just watch me.

Anonymous wrote:We are Christians, but my kids have been asking about some of the other holidays like Hanukkah and Kwaanza. In an effort to nurture their curiosity and respect for all religions, we have put a Menorah up in our home and some Kwanzaa decorations. Perhaps this is the approach you could take?

OP here. That is very nice! We actually do already celebrate Passover, Rosh Hashanah, and Hanukkah with our best friends here who are Jewish, but I like the idea of Kwanzaa decorations....thanks.