Anonymous
12/14/2015 20:04
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Ah, yes, I remember that tradition. I would have compromised instead of rejecting the gift outright. Accepted the Sinterklaas and told my mother that there would be no Black Peter in my house, and why.
It's tough. I have racist European relatives.
The hardest part is...she does not see this as racist. I think that is why she is so upset with me.
Most Dutch people -- who are much more tolerant and accepting of other cultures than the US, with much less racism overall -- don't, including most Dutch children who believe that the "blackface" is like a clown's makeup and don't see any connection to black people. It's only because of the history of blackface that we link it with racism here in the US.
But many do.
Anonymous
12/14/2015 20:03
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:I know people are going to focus on the "it" of it....but...
It's a Sinterklaas doll and his assistant Black Peter. (I don't want to get into the pro/con Black Peter argument especially by any Dutch people) we don't like it, don't have it in our house. My mother is older and very much loves it. She wants my daughter to have the fun of Sinterklaas day (which was Saturday) like she did (and I did) as a child.
Well, it is controversial in the netherlands, too right now, so your mom is tone deaf.
Anonymous
12/11/2015 16:54
Subject: Re:Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:You graciously accept the gift, then it magically disappears.
I will never "graciously accept" racism.
Anonymous
12/11/2015 16:39
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Ah, yes, I remember that tradition. I would have compromised instead of rejecting the gift outright. Accepted the Sinterklaas and told my mother that there would be no Black Peter in my house, and why.
It's tough. I have racist European relatives.
The hardest part is...she does not see this as racist. I think that is why she is so upset with me.
Most Dutch people -- who are much more tolerant and accepting of other cultures than the US, with much less racism overall -- don't, including most Dutch children who believe that the "blackface" is like a clown's makeup and don't see any connection to black people. It's only because of the history of blackface that we link it with racism here in the US.
Wrong. I know Dutch people, including-- get this!-- black Dutch people. This is very much like Little Black Sambo, and the common white Dutch reaction is very much like the reaction of a white person to LBS in the 1940s. Or Washingtonians to the "Skins" mascot, frankly. They mean it totally respectfully, dontchaknow-- it's just a tradition, doesn't mean anything, no racism to see here blah blah blah. Sure, the Dutch and other Europeans aren't racist at all, no sirree. Just ask the Surinamese and the Indonesians. Sigh.
Anonymous
12/11/2015 09:39
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Good for you op
Anonymous
12/10/2015 17:15
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:YOu are coming across as a huge bitch. Your poor mom
Well, that escalated quickly. No, she is not. Test the waters before you throw the B grenade. Do
you know what black peter is? What it looks like? OP is in the right.
Anonymous
12/10/2015 16:34
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Whoa, I just googled this and a ton of pictures of people in black face showed up. I'm with you, OP.
Anonymous
12/10/2015 16:17
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Ah, yes, I remember that tradition. I would have compromised instead of rejecting the gift outright. Accepted the Sinterklaas and told my mother that there would be no Black Peter in my house, and why.
It's tough. I have racist European relatives.
The hardest part is...she does not see this as racist. I think that is why she is so upset with me.
Most Dutch people -- who are much more tolerant and accepting of other cultures than the US, with much less racism overall -- don't, including most Dutch children who believe that the "blackface" is like a clown's makeup and don't see any connection to black people. It's only because of the history of blackface that we link it with racism here in the US.
Anonymous
12/09/2015 19:22
Subject: Re:Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
You graciously accept the gift, then it magically disappears.
Anonymous
12/08/2015 21:06
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:YOu are coming across as a huge bitch. Your poor mom
No. OP is right. The black Pete doll is extremely racist, particularly in this country, which is probably why European Mom doesn't get it. Can you compromise and just give her the Sinterklaas doll? Give Black Pete back to Mom.
Yeah, I just google imaged Sinterklaas and Black Peter...pages of white people in black face. That doesn't fly in the US. You did good, OP. If you loved Sinterklaas as a kid, could you introduce that to your daughter, without the black Pete?
Is this the Six to Eight Black Men David Sedaris speaks of?
Anonymous
12/07/2015 20:00
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:Wow, I have never seen a thread on DCUM swing from 100% you're wrong to 100% you're right. Nice job OP!
for what it's worth, as someone with rural southern relatives, there are some things you can't win and just draw a line on. you will never convince her it's racist, she will never see it as racist. Eventually it will pass away.
+1.
Interesting turn.
Anonymous
12/07/2015 19:51
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Wow, I have never seen a thread on DCUM swing from 100% you're wrong to 100% you're right. Nice job OP!
for what it's worth, as someone with rural southern relatives, there are some things you can't win and just draw a line on. you will never convince her it's racist, she will never see it as racist. Eventually it will pass away.
for what it's worth, as someone with rural southern relatives, there are some things you can't win and just draw a line on. you will never convince her it's racist, she will never see it as racist. Eventually it will pass away.
Anonymous
12/07/2015 19:50
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Slightly off-topic, but just another plea to people starting a thread.
PLEASE go ahead and get specific in your original post.
When OP was vague and coy and not saying what the gift was, posters jumped on her for being a jerk (and I confess that was my response to, though I was just lurking).
OP comes back and explains, and now majority of posters support OP's decision (as do I).
If you want useful feedback, please explain the situation!
[end PSA announcement]
PLEASE go ahead and get specific in your original post.
When OP was vague and coy and not saying what the gift was, posters jumped on her for being a jerk (and I confess that was my response to, though I was just lurking).
OP comes back and explains, and now majority of posters support OP's decision (as do I).
If you want useful feedback, please explain the situation!
[end PSA announcement]
Anonymous
12/07/2015 19:46
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Dutch person here, completely agree with your choice OP. Embarrassing is the perfect word.
Anonymous
12/07/2015 17:14
Subject: Embarrassing Fight w/ my mother
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Ah, yes, I remember that tradition. I would have compromised instead of rejecting the gift outright. Accepted the Sinterklaas and told my mother that there would be no Black Peter in my house, and why.
It's tough. I have racist European relatives.
If you read, OP said that she tried that, and her mom just said she would take them all back.
OP, I think you were very reasonable.
Yes, I didn't read everything... my mother and aunts routinely make pretty out-there comments. My cousins and I cannot make them change their ways, even though we always speak up about it. Soon, OP, your children will be able to correct Grandma themselves, like my kids do!