Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

Did you read the post about how all things being equal, an employer would rather hire someone who has *some* kind of work experience (be it manual, fast food services, or white collar) than over someone who has no work experience? You might be doing your child a disservice. Also, colleges see a lot of applicants with stellar education credentials. What will set your child apart from the rest of the pack? If I saw a kid that had not the best test scores/grades, but had a side business mowing lawns, I'd pick him over a student with excellent grades and nothing else. Why? Because the other student shows leadership and entrepreneural skills in the real world, and chances are, this is the kind of person that will start a company, create jobs, and become a leader in the real world.

Depends on what kind of work experience. To get my kid an elite job I'll be pulling connections for him to intern at a friends office in some capacity or another during his summer. Not mowing lawns. If he starts his own business it will be something to do in the tech start up realm. Other than that his job is school. You have to play it smart. Frankly Goldman Sachs ain't looking for waiteressing experience.

Good for you helicopter parent, instilling in your snowflake "it isn't what you know, it is who you know." No wonder college professors are lamenting how lazy and entitled college students have become.

There is a system to social success. You either work with it or fight against it. You can disrupt it (see rise of the Internet), but I rather work with the reality I have then bemoan what it should be. Yes who you know is important, even when you graduate and go out into the adult corporate world. You are in denial of you think otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

Did you read the post about how all things being equal, an employer would rather hire someone who has *some* kind of work experience (be it manual, fast food services, or white collar) than over someone who has no work experience? You might be doing your child a disservice. Also, colleges see a lot of applicants with stellar education credentials. What will set your child apart from the rest of the pack? If I saw a kid that had not the best test scores/grades, but had a side business mowing lawns, I'd pick him over a student with excellent grades and nothing else. Why? Because the other student shows leadership and entrepreneural skills in the real world, and chances are, this is the kind of person that will start a company, create jobs, and become a leader in the real world.

Depends on what kind of work experience. To get my kid an elite job I'll be pulling connections for him to intern at a friends office in some capacity or another during his summer. Not mowing lawns. If he starts his own business it will be something to do in the tech start up realm. Other than that his job is school. You have to play it smart. Frankly Goldman Sachs ain't looking for waiteressing experience.

Good for you helicopter parent, instilling in your snowflake "it isn't what you know, it is who you know." No wonder college professors are lamenting how lazy and entitled college students have become.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

Did you read the post about how all things being equal, an employer would rather hire someone who has *some* kind of work experience (be it manual, fast food services, or white collar) than over someone who has no work experience? You might be doing your child a disservice. Also, colleges see a lot of applicants with stellar education credentials. What will set your child apart from the rest of the pack? If I saw a kid that had not the best test scores/grades, but had a side business mowing lawns, I'd pick him over a student with excellent grades and nothing else. Why? Because the other student shows leadership and entrepreneural skills in the real world, and chances are, this is the kind of person that will start a company, create jobs, and become a leader in the real world.

Depends on what kind of work experience. To get my kid an elite job I'll be pulling connections for him to intern at a friends office in some capacity or another during his summer. Not mowing lawns. If he starts his own business it will be something to do in the tech start up realm. Other than that his job is school. You have to play it smart. Frankly Goldman Sachs ain't looking for waiteressing experience.

But what if an "elite job" isn't what he wants to do with his life? Does he have to do that anyway because that's what you think is the only road to success?

Also, I've been at companies where we've had interns who are only there because some exec's friend pulled connections to put him there. Invariably they are a PITA. I always thought it must be horribly demoralizing to a kid to know he can only get a job because Daddy called in favor.

Does not matter whether it is demoralizing or not. If he or she is a good kid he or she would keep his or her ears open and learn as much as they can. That's the whole point of being an intern.

Maybe an elite job is not what my kid wants and when he or she is older they can pick whatever the hell they want to do. However as pointed out, when they are young why not keep the path open for them. Also coming from a background where my grandmother worked in construction and as I look at my gardener sweating in the hot sun, manual labor is over romanticized here. There is a reason why people want office jobs. The poster with the lawn kid entrepreneur will soon find himself priced out by under the table labor, unless he starts his own company eventually with the said illegal labor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

Did you read the post about how all things being equal, an employer would rather hire someone who has *some* kind of work experience (be it manual, fast food services, or white collar) than over someone who has no work experience? You might be doing your child a disservice. Also, colleges see a lot of applicants with stellar education credentials. What will set your child apart from the rest of the pack? If I saw a kid that had not the best test scores/grades, but had a side business mowing lawns, I'd pick him over a student with excellent grades and nothing else. Why? Because the other student shows leadership and entrepreneural skills in the real world, and chances are, this is the kind of person that will start a company, create jobs, and become a leader in the real world.

Depends on what kind of work experience. To get my kid an elite job I'll be pulling connections for him to intern at a friends office in some capacity or another during his summer. Not mowing lawns. If he starts his own business it will be something to do in the tech start up realm. Other than that his job is school. You have to play it smart. Frankly Goldman Sachs ain't looking for waiteressing experience.

But what if an "elite job" isn't what he wants to do with his life? Does he have to do that anyway because that's what you think is the only road to success?

Also, I've been at companies where we've had interns who are only there because some exec's friend pulled connections to put him there. Invariably they are a PITA. I always thought it must be horribly demoralizing to a kid to know he can only get a job because Daddy called in favor.

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread makes me sad.

I grew up outside of the US and what I see as one of its greatest strengths is that it is the land of second chances, third chances, and fourth chances. You can fail and still have a chance to succeed. You can bomb out out of high school, take some time off, get a GED and start at a community college and still become a doctor, an engineer, or a successful entrepreneur. There is I believe almost no other country in the world where this is true.

We should be celebrating this instead of giving into the high stakes grades and testing mentality that other countries have. Most of those have just a few paths to success, while ours are practically limitless. The US is really the land of opportunity. Why would we want to change that?

Getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances are rapidly diminishing for most people. You are right, but society has changed rapidly. Once you get off the 'traintrack' it is so hard to get back on for most.

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread makes me sad.

I grew up outside of the US and what I see as one of its greatest strengths is that it is the land of second chances, third chances, and fourth chances. You can fail and still have a chance to succeed. You can bomb out out of high school, take some time off, get a GED and start at a community college and still become a doctor, an engineer, or a successful entrepreneur. There is I believe almost no other country in the world where this is true.

We should be celebrating this instead of giving into the high stakes grades and testing mentality that other countries have. Most of those have just a few paths to success, while ours are practically limitless. The US is really the land of opportunity. Why would we want to change that?

Maybe New Zealand gives you second chances...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

Did you read the post about how all things being equal, an employer would rather hire someone who has *some* kind of work experience (be it manual, fast food services, or white collar) than over someone who has no work experience? You might be doing your child a disservice. Also, colleges see a lot of applicants with stellar education credentials. What will set your child apart from the rest of the pack? If I saw a kid that had not the best test scores/grades, but had a side business mowing lawns, I'd pick him over a student with excellent grades and nothing else. Why? Because the other student shows leadership and entrepreneural skills in the real world, and chances are, this is the kind of person that will start a company, create jobs, and become a leader in the real world.

Depends on what kind of work experience. To get my kid an elite job I'll be pulling connections for him to intern at a friends office in some capacity or another during his summer. Not mowing lawns. If he starts his own business it will be something to do in the tech start up realm. Other than that his job is school. You have to play it smart. Frankly Goldman Sachs ain't looking for waiteressing experience.

Like if my kid wanted to go to medical school I would advice him to volunteer at a hospital or work at a doctors office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

Did you read the post about how all things being equal, an employer would rather hire someone who has *some* kind of work experience (be it manual, fast food services, or white collar) than over someone who has no work experience? You might be doing your child a disservice. Also, colleges see a lot of applicants with stellar education credentials. What will set your child apart from the rest of the pack? If I saw a kid that had not the best test scores/grades, but had a side business mowing lawns, I'd pick him over a student with excellent grades and nothing else. Why? Because the other student shows leadership and entrepreneural skills in the real world, and chances are, this is the kind of person that will start a company, create jobs, and become a leader in the real world.

Depends on what kind of work experience. To get my kid an elite job I'll be pulling connections for him to intern at a friends office in some capacity or another during his summer. Not mowing lawns. If he starts his own business it will be something to do in the tech start up realm. Other than that his job is school. You have to play it smart. Frankly Goldman Sachs ain't looking for waiteressing experience.

This whole thread makes me sad.

I grew up outside of the US and what I see as one of its greatest strengths is that it is the land of second chances, third chances, and fourth chances. You can fail and still have a chance to succeed. You can bomb out out of high school, take some time off, get a GED and start at a community college and still become a doctor, an engineer, or a successful entrepreneur. There is I believe almost no other country in the world where this is true.

We should be celebrating this instead of giving into the high stakes grades and testing mentality that other countries have. Most of those have just a few paths to success, while ours are practically limitless. The US is really the land of opportunity. Why would we want to change that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

Did you read the post about how all things being equal, an employer would rather hire someone who has *some* kind of work experience (be it manual, fast food services, or white collar) than over someone who has no work experience? You might be doing your child a disservice. Also, colleges see a lot of applicants with stellar education credentials. What will set your child apart from the rest of the pack? If I saw a kid that had not the best test scores/grades, but had a side business mowing lawns, I'd pick him over a student with excellent grades and nothing else. Why? Because the other student shows leadership and entrepreneural skills in the real world, and chances are, this is the kind of person that will start a company, create jobs, and become a leader in the real world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

Is your son dyslexic?

Good question, I was thinking the same. Dyslexic kids are very entrepreneurial inclined.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

I agree. We demand our kids work just like we did at a young age. It teaches them a work ethic that will carry them a long way. The kids who have a life spoon fed to them do not do well in the real world.

Interesting discussion. I am Asian and we don't expect teenagers to have part time jobs. Asian parents want their kids to focus on their grades and academics which we consider their "job".

I am white but with the Asian parents here. Maybe if my kids would overindulge and get cocky and know it all about life I would push a manual labor experience but that's about it.

This sounds like such an exhausting way to live. There's a lot of black and white thinking in this entire thread. Do you ever question your assumptions?

I agree with this and with 9:33. Many people on this thread and in this area fail to recognize there is more than one way to succeed. I grew up on a farm in the midwest, one of the few in my class to graduate from college (state school) and even fewer to have a graduate degree (MBA from another state school). I know people who have dropped out of high school (we're in our 50s), barely made it thru HS, work in factories or trades or in the retail/service industry. I also know a number of people who've served time. I'd say by the time they're 40, most have a comfortable lifestyle. They aren't raking in the dough but they are homeowners, have vehicles, multiple TVs, cell phones, plenty of food and take vacations every year or so. How is that not successful? Some of the people I grew up with who do not have college degrees and make far more than I do. They generally work in the trades, have vacation homes and travel extensively. What sets them apart from the others is their work ethic and good choices (financial and lifestyle).

Some of my kids with learning disabilities will never be on the honor roll but I have no doubt they will be successful. They know the value of work and effort. So many on DCUM would be appalled that we celebrate Cs but we know what it took for our kids to earn them. We're teaching them to keep working hard, persevere and not to let setbacks get them down. They only way they disappoint us is if they aren't making an effort. When they don't achieve the results THEY want, we help them plan how to get their. It may not get them to HYP but they'll be healthy and happy.

I think a lot of affluent parents take their competitive attitude into child raising. The parents are competitive and want to "win" at raising kids. That means they need the kids to "win" by having great grades and stellar extra-curriculars and getting into a top 10 school, preferable HYP or Chicago or Stanford or MIT. Parents take a huge amount of self-esteem and concept from how their kids turned out. These parents have extremely high standards for themselves and that leads them to push their kids very hard.

Unfortunately, as the article points out, that pushing breaks some kids and turns other kids into excellent sheep.

Anonymous wrote:Parents can push all they want for Ivy. Its a scam. Both DH and I are entrepreneurs and that is a mindset that wins every time. It can even win without a degree.

My son is the ONLY child mowing lawns. He is 15 and next spring his first car will be a pickup to trailer his equipment. He has 1 kid he pays on his busiest days to help. Next spring he will drive his own truck. He has had to knock on doors, convince people to spend their money with a neighborhood kid, and deliver a consistent product. He has 14 regular customers for mowing at 40/wk each and then has been busy with leaves and mulching this fall. We're teaching him that the way to freedom and success in this country is to rely on yourself and not be an office drone.

You aren't wrong.