Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sanders has said:
"Cutting poverty and inequality is worth a reduction in innovation, and oh by the way, the kinds of things we call ‘innovation’ are often little more than new marketing gimmicks with dubious social value.”

Sanders didn't actually say that. Maybe you can get a real quote and we can discuss that?

You deleted the MSNBC quote about Carson. Why? It matters.

It must have been highly offensive.

Anonymous wrote:I went to Sweden. Everything seemed to work there- in fact, things worked much better than here...

not for long-Sweeden is going down the tubes along with the rest of Europe. We are swirling down too.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sanders has said:
"Cutting poverty and inequality is worth a reduction in innovation, and oh by the way, the kinds of things we call ‘innovation’ are often little more than new marketing gimmicks with dubious social value.”

Sanders didn't actually say that. Maybe you can get a real quote and we can discuss that?

You deleted the MSNBC quote about Carson. Why? It matters.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to Sweden. Everything seemed to work there- in fact, things worked much better than here...

Do you really think you can equate an economic system that works well for a small, homogenous country like Sweden to such a massive and diverse country as the US? This is what people seem to miss when they compare little countries in Europe to us. It's apples and oranges.

What evidence do you have that it wouldn't work? Can you point to a single policy that Sanders supports and explain why it might work in a small country, but not the US?

NP here. I wouldn't say that democratic socialism wouldn't work here because of the size of the country nor even necessarily the amount of diversity here, but because too many people have an "us vs. them" attitude. Here, it's blacks vs. whites, immigrants vs. those who have been here longer who aren't Native American, gay vs. straight, Democrat vs. Republican, poor vs. rich... in my grandparents' old neighborhood, it was Irish vs. Italian, then it became white vs. Puerto Rican (them damn PRs!!)... everyone on some level is against someone else and doesn't want the "other" getting something supposedly for free.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And Bernie Sanders said this: "You go to Scandinavia, and you will find that people have a much higher standard of living, in terms of education, health care and decent paying jobs." All true, but he's not taking into account that especially high personal debt people incur because they're paying such high taxes.

Add in college debt to the US side of the equation given that tuition is free in Scandinavian countries and I bet the equation doesn't look so bad.

Yes, but the argument then becomes about choice. Do I want to go to college? Do I want to go that super expensive private college or can I go to a less expensive state school? Can I get a scholarship to help pay for it? These are all choices people get to make when it comes to their finances. With taxes, there are no choices. So if I'm in Denmark, I may get free healthcare and education but I'm accumulating an average 310 percent personal debt. Forget vacations or maybe a newer car one day. I'm in too much debt and have too many taxes.

Exactly. And no one tests you at age xyz and determines your career choice to boot! We DO have choices here. Even Biden said that government interference caused college tuition to rise.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And Bernie Sanders said this: "You go to Scandinavia, and you will find that people have a much higher standard of living, in terms of education, health care and decent paying jobs." All true, but he's not taking into account that especially high personal debt people incur because they're paying such high taxes.

Add in college debt to the US side of the equation given that tuition is free in Scandinavian countries and I bet the equation doesn't look so bad.

And a lot of that debt is due to elite snobbery about schools. My daughter would not be going to a private institution unless we could pay cash for it.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And Bernie Sanders said this: "You go to Scandinavia, and you will find that people have a much higher standard of living, in terms of education, health care and decent paying jobs." All true, but he's not taking into account that especially high personal debt people incur because they're paying such high taxes.

Add in college debt to the US side of the equation given that tuition is free in Scandinavian countries and I bet the equation doesn't look so bad.

Yes, but the argument then becomes about choice. Do I want to go to college? Do I want to go that super expensive private college or can I go to a less expensive state school? Can I get a scholarship to help pay for it? These are all choices people get to make when it comes to their finances. With taxes, there are no choices. So if I'm in Denmark, I may get free healthcare and education but I'm accumulating an average 310 percent personal debt. Forget vacations or maybe a newer car one day. I'm in too much debt and have too many taxes.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sanders has said:
"Cutting poverty and inequality is worth a reduction in innovation, and oh by the way, the kinds of things we call ‘innovation’ are often little more than new marketing gimmicks with dubious social value.”

Sanders didn't actually say that. Maybe you can get a real quote and we can discuss that?

Ok, so his deodorant argument wasn't saying that if you essentially cut innovation you can help the poor?

https://myleftblogosphere.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/bernie-sanders-deodorant-argument-is-one-of-the-most-substantive-of-the-campaign-so-far-2/

Here is his "deodorant argument":

"If 99 percent of all the new income goes to the top 1 percent, you could triple it, it wouldn't matter much to the average middle class person. The whole size of the economy and the GDP doesn't matter if people continue to work longer hours for low wages and you have 45 million people living in poverty. You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

His argument was about growth, not innovation.

Anonymous wrote:And Bernie Sanders said this: "You go to Scandinavia, and you will find that people have a much higher standard of living, in terms of education, health care and decent paying jobs." All true, but he's not taking into account that especially high personal debt people incur because they're paying such high taxes.

Add in college debt to the US side of the equation given that tuition is free in Scandinavian countries and I bet the equation doesn't look so bad.

And Bernie Sanders said this: "You go to Scandinavia, and you will find that people have a much higher standard of living, in terms of education, health care and decent paying jobs." All true, but he's not taking into account that especially high personal debt people incur because they're paying such high taxes.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sanders has said:
"Cutting poverty and inequality is worth a reduction in innovation, and oh by the way, the kinds of things we call ‘innovation’ are often little more than new marketing gimmicks with dubious social value.”

Sanders didn't actually say that. Maybe you can get a real quote and we can discuss that?

Ok, so his deodorant argument wasn't saying that if you essentially cut innovation you can help the poor?

https://myleftblogosphere.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/bernie-sanders-deodorant-argument-is-one-of-the-most-substantive-of-the-campaign-so-far-2/

I think companies like Ikea, Volvo, AstraZeneca, Spotify and others would disagree with you on a lack of innovation.

Anonymous wrote:What about his admitted violent past? Attempt of stabbing and throwing rocks at people?

According to CNN (see the other thread in this forum), Carson made those stories up.

What about his admitted violent past? Attempt of stabbing and throwing rocks at people?

Anonymous wrote:
Sanders has said:
"Cutting poverty and inequality is worth a reduction in innovation, and oh by the way, the kinds of things we call ‘innovation’ are often little more than new marketing gimmicks with dubious social value.”

Sanders didn't actually say that. Maybe you can get a real quote and we can discuss that?